The Leading Difference

Justin Bantuelle & Michael Roberts | COO & CMO, Health Connective | Improving Patient Outcomes & Streamlining Processes

Justin Bantuelle (COO) and Michael Roberts (CMO) of Health Connective discuss the company's role in supporting medtech firms by developing custom web applications for surgical planning, post-operative reviews, and other solutions. Justin and Michael share their personal journeys into medtech, highlighting the rewarding experience of contributing to life-saving technologies. The conversation touches on common challenges in medtech like security and user experience, emphasizing the importance of empathy, active listening, and adaptability in solving complex problems. 
 
Guest links: https://www.healthconnectivetech.com/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at theleadingdifference@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTEpisode 047 - Justin Bantuelle & Michael Roberts
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
 Welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I'm so excited to introduce you to my guests today. Justin Bantuelle and Michael Roberts. Justin is the Chief Operations Officer and Michael is the Chief Marketing Officer for Health Connective. Both have been working with the company for more than 10 years. Health Connective supports web application development for medtech companies, including online interfaces for pre surgical planning and post operative review, streamlined systems for customer orders, and training portals. They understand that every company's needs are unique, and your solution should be too.
Well, welcome, Justin and Michael. I am so excited to have you guys today. Thanks for joining me.
[00:01:35] Justin Bantuelle: Yeah. Thank you for having us.
[00:01:36] Michael Roberts: Very excited to be here. Thank you.
[00:01:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by just sharing a little bit about your background, maybe what led you to medtech and your heart for it. So I'll start with you, Justin.
[00:01:51] Justin Bantuelle: Sure. It was, I kind of fell into it, I guess, initially, which I think on the tech side, probably a lot of people end up doing that. I had a computer science background. I got my bachelor's degree and I started at the company we're at now, Health Connective, out of college. And I've been there for 16, 17 years or something, but we were healthcare focused. And so they needed web development skills. I was a programmer, and that's how I started, but I've learned a tremendous amount since then. So I think coming from that technical angle, this is like where I fell into it. And I've moved up to the company. I manage a lot of people. I manage a lot of client interactions, help build systems that support medical devices, robots, things like that. So I've gathered a tremendous amount of information about this field as a result of that.
And I've stuck with it cause it has been very rewarding. It's something that matters so much to so many people. You see the real Impact that it makes when you help get these products to market. And you see all the research studies that show how much this is transforming these different fields of care. And then just, I think we all have personal experiences with these healthcare systems and the challenges people face, the uncertainties about it. Just talking to like my parents or to friends who know less about the sector and just that I have any kind of insight into it helps assuage fears. And yeah, it just, it matters. And that's very rewarding.
[00:03:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.
[00:03:20] Michael Roberts: Yeah. I did not set out necessarily to be in medtech as well. Like Justin, long story short, when I got into marketing, I was working more in the hospitality industry, hotels, restaurants, all that kind of stuff. Decided I didn't want to do that anymore and thought, "Where can I get as far away from the hospitality industry as possible?" And so, the funny thing there was some non compete things that I had to deal with from my previous employer. And so I was literally looking for a place that had no overlap with the previous company that I'd worked with as a marketer.
And so I found the company, found Health Connective, and jumped into it and try to bring in the same skill sets. I'll just do some of the SEO and I'll do some digital advertising and some of that kind of stuff. And some of that worked and some of it was just so drastically different, right? Like this is such a different experience for people.
So my first thing that I worked on here at the company was working with orthopedic physicians, helping them out with their marketing. And it was very similar in small business marketing in a lot of ways, but again, drastically different in so many ways. And then one of the first things that I ended up working on within the first few years was working with Olympus on a campaign that they were doing about raising awareness around gastroenterology around going to get your colon checked and all of that fun kind of stuff.
 I have a family member that has a Crohn's disease. And so this was something that very quickly became like, "Oh, this is a part of what we're all experiencing." I was able to go and ask people questions at Olympus. We went to Digestive Disease Week, which I had no idea was a thing, went there and I got to meet with the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation, just purely as a dad. Being there and just going like, "Can you just tell me how to help my daughter, how to help understand it?"
So that was kind of the thing that really clicked, "This is where I need to be. This is what I need to be doing." Because so many of us are experiencing something like this somewhere in our family, whether it's us as patients, family members, whomever. So that was kind of the big click moment for me.
[00:05:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Wow. Yeah, that's powerful. Thank you for sharing that. So could you tell us a little bit about the company and maybe also a little bit about your goals as it continues to grow.?
[00:05:33] Michael Roberts: Yeah, so, you know, we, as a company, we're out there to help MedTech companies with a couple of different kinds of things. So we end up helping the product and sort of R&D side of things. And that may be with robotic devices, if there's different types of data coming off of the device that they want to be able to show back to the different physicians, the different people that are involved with the procedure, that's the type of work that we do.
And I'm super glossing that over and saying that very quickly, but there's a lot of different people that we share this information with that comes off the robot, everybody from physicians to engineers, to field service teams, all those different kinds of folks. And the goal there is just, "Hey, you're obtaining an immense amount of data out of every single procedure. What can you do with that data? How can we help you better utilize that information and improve outcomes and do all those kinds of things?" so that kind of product development and like I said, R&D side of things that's kind of where we fit.
And then on the marketing side I, I kind of refer to it as like the, "Wouldn't it be cool if?" kind of group. It's like, "Wouldn't it be cool if this process that we had didn't suck? That would be awesome. How could we get somebody to help us with that?" So anything from ordering online kinds of processes where, because it's not as simple as just setting up an e commerce solution and just letting it run, you have to have different pricing for every sector and you have to have different contracts with everybody and all of those kinds of things. We can marry a lot of that messy data and make it a seamless experience for people so it doesn't suck.
And so that's what we're hoping for. And then also like, "Wouldn't it be cool if these things could be that much better?" So a lot of efficiencies, a lot of things where again, these systems don't natively talk to one another. How can I get my CRM and all of these other unique data sources that I have to actually cooperate with one another. So, that's the kind of stuff that we set out to do. Again, I'm saying it super simply as opposed to how Justin would be able to define it. But, but those are the things that we're setting out to do for people is improve that customer experience and then get better data coming back from their procedures, that sort of thing.
[00:07:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, I would love to dive a little bit more into what does it look like when somebody starts working with you? How do you go from, you know, taking them through lead all the way to your day to day? What does that look like?
[00:07:57] Michael Roberts: Yeah, I'll start the conversation. And then Justin, 'cause Justin takes over at a certain point and I just go, "Hey, let me know if you need anything." But a lot of it is, these kinds of things are very trust driven, right? So we have a lot of messaging out there. We have a podcast, we have advertising that we're doing, we're going to be at a few different trade shows through the rest of 2024, figuring out which ones to be at for next year, but a lot of it does come down to relationships. So somebody has introduced us.
We've started having those kinds of conversations because any of these kinds of things that you're talking about there, there's kind of big, messy problems that aren't easy to fix. They aren't something that you just sign off on quickly that's a 5, 000 a month subscription and off you go. It's a bigger, more thought out process. So a lot of it is that sort of process of, "Hey, let's get to know one another. And then really digging into what problem are you trying to solve?" Everything that we do is a custom solution. So it's not, you don't have to use XYZ systems in order for us to work with you. We can be very flexible on that, but then, so we really get into that kind of problem definition stage, and then Justin, I'll let you kind of take it from there once we get into the problem itself.
[00:09:05] Justin Bantuelle: Sure. Yeah. I mean, the initial touch point with it is really just listening and reassuring that, "I've heard your problem before something similar to it. Okay, you have these different technologies. These are the things that are unique about what you're trying to do in this space. And here's how I can craft a solution for you." So it's a lot of listening, helping them along the process of requirements gathering, usually this part of it, this front end data visualization after the fact for a lot of medical device, I find that's not their core competency. Their core competency is the device itself. They've built the device. The device works very well. It achieves something and it solves a problem in the medical space, but then there's all this stuff you have to do after the fact. And so it's like, "Great, this work, the procedure is amazing. And now there's all these things that we need to take action with," and that's where we kind of step in and provide that end of it.
And we augment their teams that they already have. They have several very technical people. They've got brilliant engineers, they probably got brilliant developers involved in a lot of the software written around the device itself. And that's where we understand what their needs are, solutions are, their implementations where there's gaps. And then we help shape that for them and make sure it matches what they need. Yeah, like Michael said, never any one size fits all. It's always very customized. And that's where we shine is helping just lead them through that. They don't need to micromanage it. They're not just hiring a handful of developers and needing to tell them what to do. It's like, we take it kind of from, "You articulated the problem. We'll fully craft and implement a solution for you and then work alongside you for assessing how that works, how much it's solving your problems, what emergent needs are there, what maybe needs iteration."
So we also view this as long term engagements typically, and we find that's what works well for our customers as well. Usually you're not just building something and then just abandoning it. Hopefully this goes for years and years as a successful product that you continue to iterate on, improve in the field, and then you necessarily need these other systems to work alongside it. So, I find that a lot of people have a bit of a fear that. We'll build something for you and then kick it over the wall, and then now your team has to manage it. Good luck. And I don't like operating that way. I enjoy continuing to see the success of something I build. I like standing by what we have built. And so that's kind of our outlook on it, I guess, and how we try to assist people a little bit on the side, I guess, maybe, but hopefully that made sense.
[00:11:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. No, that's incredible. Thank you so much. So, you know, I know you said that one of the strengths that your company brings is having this flexibility, being able to, like you said, be very customized with your approach to different companies and really help them because no problem is exactly the same. But I am curious, have you come across some themes that are a little bit common, especially in the medtech industry, that perhaps folks who are in the process of developing something could be aware of. What are some of the things that you commonly see that your company could help or they should be thinking through.
[00:12:15] Justin Bantuelle: I think that security is a big one that tends to get overlooked until the project is finished. And then you're going through some final regulatory steps and the security team comes in and assesses it and goes, "You didn't think about any of this." And now you're re architecting like half of what you built. I think that's probably the biggest pain point I see. There's like a major gap in looking at that. And it's important everywhere, but a lot of fields aren't as highly regulated, so they get away with not sweating it as much until it bites them. Whereas you can't really do that here. You're not launching if you didn't put these considerations in place.
And that's something that I think it's more unique to a handful of sectors where, and medtech is one of them, where you're really hurting yourself if that's not at the forefront of your mind. And so somebody who's not used to those considerations is probably not going to build you the right thing up front. And you're maybe not knowing how to articulate for this part of what's being built as a client that "No, you really need to think about this. We're going to be doing this as part of the process afterwards." Usually it's a completely separate team and it's all part of the documentation, filing it, getting it all in right at the end. And that's a terrible time to find out that you should've thought about something. So that's the biggest one that comes to mind up front.
[00:13:37] Michael Roberts: Yeah, I can jump in as well. I think one of the big things that we don't see a lot of medtech companies do that, that we ended up helping, right? If they had this right, they probably wouldn't need our help as much with it. But one of the things is that I think that, because this is such a complicated industry, everybody kind of gets used to sort of a cruddy experience. You know, it's like, "Well, man, this system is really slow, but you know, it's okay. It's just an internal tool." Or, you know, "Just the physicians are using this one so it's not as bad. We can make it too complex, too messy to whatever." And everybody just seems to say like, "Ah, well, that's good enough."
And I think that, one of the things I've been surprised by that people aren't considering more, is just how much we are all acclimating to an Amazon experience, to all of these kinds of things where we just expect it to work. And then as more and more of these AI systems catch on and we get used to being able to just talk to the systems and they just do what we want them to do, I think that that frustration is going to get more and more apparent even on systems that have nothing to do with AI, even if they never touch it. We're just getting used to faster and faster systems that intuitively work. And there are so, so many in medtech that don't across the board. And it's not just the stuff that we work with, but I think that there's a lot of pain points in that area.
[00:15:00] Justin Bantuelle: That's a really good point as well. Yeah. Yeah. I think most people are familiar at this point with Amazon being able to measure exactly how much money they lose per a 10th of a second longer the page loads, right. And you're right, Michael, that this platform isn't the, like what we're building, these visualizations, these like post procedural dashboards, things like that. Those aren't the product. Those are supplementing it. Those are where you're getting augmented value after the product has done a very good job performing a procedure.
And, so yeah, it's much more-- pretty much every system that physicians use in hospitals, like when you're on a computer in there, if you're a physician, if you're working the desk, whatever you're doing in there, those systems are often ancient, very slow, bad interfaces. And so I think Michael's right that a lot of companies sort of overlook that because they sort of assume this is the norm in this space. It's like, "No, we can do a lot better than that." And that's sort of baseline for us. And that's easy for me to forget that a lot of people are trying to cut corners on that front or not prioritizing that aspect of it. And you do see fall off in usage as a result of it. And yeah it's not something to be neglected.
[00:16:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So just in general user experience and being able to help companies navigate that. And you know, actually, that goes back to what you were saying earlier, Michael, the idea of "wouldn't it be cool if," you know, so "wouldn't it be cool if this worked really well"...
[00:16:37] Michael Roberts: Right.
[00:16:38] Justin Bantuelle: Right.
[00:16:38] Lindsey Dinneen: ...instead of settling for, like you said, a cruddy experience. Maybe there's something else we could do. And I love that sort of "what if" idea, because it just opens you up to all these possibilities.
[00:16:50] Michael Roberts: Absolutely.
[00:16:50] Justin Bantuelle: There's some things that are sort of corollaries to that, where a lot of groups don't consider. A lot of developers, I find as part of the user experience, so much of that is there's accessibility considerations and how severe a look it is if you're borderline non compliant with ADA, when you're in the medical field, like that's embarrassing, right? And potentially outright illegal.
[00:17:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.
[00:17:17] Justin Bantuelle: And these things often also can get overlooked if you don't have somebody who's used to doing this in the space with the interfaces that they're building.
[00:17:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So I'm curious as you've worked with all these different companies and you've had very cool experiences, are there any moments that stand out to you as really confirming to you? Yes, I'm in the right place in the right industry at the right time.
[00:17:45] Michael Roberts: This is a big question. You know, it's interesting. We've been involved in a variety of different types of projects. And as we've talked about stuff going into COVID, you know, when we were prepping for that there was work that we were doing with physicians directly, the stuff that I was, that I started off doing at the company, we still do work with physicians directly. And then we do work with some of the companies that were involved at various stages of vaccine creation process and all that kind of stuff. And so as we were sitting home during COVID and everything's going down and everything's happening all around the world, it's like, "Well, hey, we're at least helping some of these groups navigate this process." We're at least helping out some of these institutions continue running, or helping them get their messaging out or helping them in one way or another.
We actually had a podcast previous to the one that we have now, and it was called The Paradigm Shift of Healthcare. And we named it that before COVID hit. We had no idea that was coming. It was just like, hey, consumers are more of a part of the healthcare process. People are making decisions more on their own and then everything changed about healthcare. And so, definitely made for some interesting conversations about, "Yeah, we had no idea that this is what was coming."
But I do think that going through that process, seeing the provider side of it, what they were dealing with, we dealt with a lot of orthopedic surgeons who had to close their practice during the worst of it, right, when everybody had no clue what was happening. So there was that process. It was a lot of getting communication out on their websites, getting information out that way as they were trying to figure out any kind of remote appointments that they might be able to do. Figuring out that for short term, helping them just get some of that information on their sites and everything. And then, yeah, like with working with the companies as they were going through all this mess and trying to figure out how to allocate resources and all that. So that was probably one of the big times I think of like, "Okay, again, we're in the right space, beyond just this is how it's impacting my family, but it's impacting all of our families right now."
[00:19:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. How about you, Justin?
[00:19:47] Justin Bantuelle: Yeah, I think I touched on this a little bit in the intro, but something that really stands out to me is working on supporting this robot. I didn't work on the robot itself, but obviously we're working on these systems that are ancillary and critical to the overall business operation of it. And it wasn't at market yet when we were coming in and assisting, and so seeing that process where it went through to market and seeing all of the studies that are continually coming out as they're performing this to submit to the FDA, and the actual tangible data showing the massive improvement in patient outcome and realizing that like, "Yeah, we're working on things that really are transformative for care."
I had no idea how bad the space was in terms of outcomes before this robot was coming in and how much it was going to make things better for patients. Seeing the actual, tangible impact that it was going to have and that it has have since coming to market was really remarkable and something that it was like really proud to be involved in some capacity. And it just made me that much more excited about continuing to support these groups as they're doing this.
[00:20:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:20:56] Justin Bantuelle: It matters. And seeing the numbers on it really drive it home for me.
[00:21:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Both of you have said at various points, things like "it matters," like "matters" has been like a big theme so far. And I think there is so much to that. But I am curious to dial a little bit more into it because, obviously, work in general matters. There's ways that you can make an impact in any field, but what drives you when it's a particularly difficult problem, or frankly, or a difficult client where it's a little bit challenging to maybe see eye to eye. So what continues to motivate and drive you to this work that you know matters so much?
[00:21:41] Justin Bantuelle: I think, for me, it's wild to see that some of this is actually life and death. I never worked on something where like, and even some of what I'd done within medical device was just quality of life, which matters a lot too. But then some of this is about like diagnostics where a delayed outcome, a delayed assessment of the diagnostic and a misdiagnosis due to challenges with diagnostics, these things could be the difference if somebody survives or not, or like how quickly it gets them into treatment. So that's a weightiness that I never dealt with before prior to this. And so that was different than any jobs I had before where, I mean, I cared about things in like retail, but it's still, hopefully nobody's dying as a result of anything if they don't get the right thing.
So there was a weightiness to that, that I guess carries a commensurate responsibility on the same side, is there anything to talk about what keeps me going with it. For me, I don't find myself necessarily pushing through. I don't find client engagement to be that challenging. I find that everybody does care, but miscommunication can happen, but I try not to center myself in any of that. And I find that giving others the benefit of the doubt as well on that usually leads to a pretty comfortable resolution. I'm there to help solve their problem. I'm not there to win an argument or be right on the direction we take, and I've definitely recommended pathways before from a technical standpoint and they just disagree or overrule and I don't think that's necessarily the best pathway, but I defer to their judgment on what they want in this field. And we're still working towards an end goal. If I ever feel like what we're doing is not helpful, then I don't want to take their money and build something that's they're going to be unhappy with.
So, yeah, that, that part of it, I don't really necessarily personally experienced or feel that much, but it does help me just for from a personal motivation standpoint to see the outcomes on this. I don't think you always necessarily get to see that information. Some of our prior retail jobs, I don't know how happy somebody is with something once they go home with it, like unless they're coming in to return it, right? But here, it's not so much about the customer satisfaction the same way. There's very measurable. Improvements to treatment, diagnostic outcome. These things are very measurable, so you can see the results of it. And it's nice to see that you're achieving something with this, that you can
[00:24:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:24:17] Justin Bantuelle: estimate and keep with you as opposed to just hoping that it it's impacting somebody positively.
[00:24:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yeah. Excellent. Do you have anything to add to that, Michael?
[00:24:26] Michael Roberts: Yeah, I'll just quickly touch on-- so I actually came from a ministry background, from a faith background. And so part of, I guess my heritage in that field is this idea of service and this idea of trying to better people's lives in some way. And the concept of, when I started working with the physicians directly and still kind of applies with medtech companies same way is like, in my mind, I frame it as helping the people who help people. You know, really helping equip them so that they don't have to worry about that. They can go do their job. They can focus on the serving that they're doing.
I don't enjoy being the frontline person. So, when I was working for churches and stuff like that, I did some stuff where, you know, I did a mission trip and we built a house in Mexico and you see that like, "Man, this makes such an impact." But it's exhausting and it's hot and it's really tough to do. And, "Wow, what if I could help equip people that are going to be in those kinds of areas?" I could never work in a hospital. I could never be that person. I don't have that mental fortitude. I don't have that emotional fortitude to do that every day. But if we can help make that process easier, I can deal with a lot of stuff in the meantime to help that part, you know, and let them do their job well. So that's the framework that I kind of bring to it.
[00:25:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Yeah. Thank you both. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want-- could be in your industry, doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:26:03] Justin Bantuelle: Yeah, okay. It's kind of similar to what or it's related to what we just talked about those frustrations of the customer. I'd really want probably to teach something along the lines of empathy and listening, like active listening. I feel like so many of the problems that I see in the workspaces and personal exchanges boils down to a form of miscommunication and boils down largely to making bad assumptions about what the other person is thinking or feeling. And I find that you can alleviate a lot of that. And I think it's just being able to really put yourself in their shoes, understand their motivations, understand what their pain points are, what they're trying to achieve. I've seen people butt heads just so many times and often felt it was unnecessary. They're not, neither of them's wrong about anything, but I think they kind of lose sight of the common goal that they share.
And I've often helped my own employees who maybe feel like they're getting antagonized and help them reframe like what's going on and why it's not about them. It's not a personal attack kind of thing. I've seen Issues with clients where two different departments are having an issue. And I have less control over helping ameliorate that, but maybe sometimes helping to talk through it and just bring an outside perspective on it. Just with friends, family that struggle, often I find that advice to try to take a step back and reframe what's going on and think about that. I think there's a lot of techniques that, and it makes your life better, right?
You're not getting the outcome you want if you're in conflict with somebody else and that's something that I think is one of the most unnecessary friction points often in a work environment or in a personal environment that I really try to put at the forefront of my mind when I see something kind of going wrong or when I'm experiencing something where I feel like I'm not getting my point across or somebody is not really understanding. And there's probably something going on their side where I'm not communicating well myself and taking that step back and understanding what's happening. Just, I feel it makes a big difference in the outcomes for everybody.
[00:28:25] Lindsey Dinneen: I, and I really appreciate that perspective. It goes back to something you said earlier too. It's kind of, you know, you're on your client's team. It is you all against the problem. It's not you against each other. And it should never be. So trying to always remember that, or even in a work situation where it's maybe colleague to colleague, again, you're on the same team. So how do we go us against the problem rather than us against each other? So I really appreciate that perspective.
[00:28:54] Justin Bantuelle: Yeah, I think, yeah, I find that it's not that frequent that somebody's actually acting in bad faith. It's not that it doesn't happen, but I think it happens a lot less than we may be assumed. I do think that how much of our communications now are via text instead of verbally where you can hear tone a little bit more, I think it becomes a little easier to misread something and that can help contribute to the miscommunication that can then boil over into something. So yeah, it's a challenge probably we all face. I certainly like for all that I care about this and I'm talking about it, it's a challenge I face as well, but I think that awareness kind of helps to check yourself and reevaluate and maybe change how you're communicating that.
[00:29:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Amen to that. Michael, what would you teach?
[00:29:46] Michael Roberts: I should have gone first. That was, that's like sets the bar so high. I think that the thing that I would try to teach is focusing on learning different types of skillsets that you've had before. I think that the next 10 years, we're just going to consistently see that need for everybody to keep reshaping how we interact with our work world with just the world in general. There's just so much that's changing and happening right now. And so I see this some for just basic literacy of the world that we're going to need this.
But also, you know, I had to transition from one job to another. I started out in ministry and it was not for me and I needed to do something else. And it was hard. It was a good long while before I found the right fit and skilled up enough in that area for it to work. And so bought myself a book on HTML, code your first site in 30 days kind of thing. And did that and figured out how to put together a very crude website. It was just not great, but it worked. And but that kind of stuff, you know, what's possible today for people to keep on learning, to be able to shift from career path to career path.
And then knowing how much you actually do bring with you because you very much feel out of your depth in so many ways. And I felt out of my depth at Health Connected for a good long while. But finding these experiences, these things that I'm bringing to the table, helped shape me and helped me deserve to be here in a way. And I think that everybody has that. It's just unpacking all that stuff, you know, and so getting the skills we need and then being able to figure out how like to actually like match up with where we're trying to go.
[00:31:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, and you know, that's such a good point too, because sometimes I think it can feel, especially when you do transition jobs or even broader industries and you do feel a little bit out of your element. And I think the thing that you can also remember is, though, it is a strength to draw from all of these different sources of information and experiences that you've had over the years and maybe actually it is a really positive thing for you because you can go, " I don't know if MedTech has ever considered X, Y, and Z, but we did this in hospitality and let's just try it, you know?" And so I love that idea of bringing all the things together and allowing it to help shape you.
[00:32:04] Michael Roberts: Yeah. Watching customer experiences be bad in healthcare just kills me. It just, 'cause you'd automatically lose in hospitality. You're automatically out if you don't have your customer experiences solid. That's the benchmark you have to start there. So
[00:32:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Yeah. Well, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:32:25] Justin Bantuelle: I, I think more than anything, I would just want to be thought of as somebody who was kind. It really matters a lot to me. I care about how people feel. I care about helping people. I'd like people to think that I always did right by them and helped where I could. So, that's at the forefront a lot of what I try to make decisions on in my personal life. So hopefully I live up to that.
[00:32:56] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.
[00:32:57] Michael Roberts: I would add something similar to that, I guess, would be willing to invest in the people that I cared about, that I was willing to disrupt my day, ' cause I can get so focused on a thing. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an artist of some sort, and that you think about the artists that have kind of stood through time and it's like, "Oh, well that's the pinnacle of what it means to be a person is you're remembered through time for some major achievement." And it's like, well, yes, there are a handful of people that do that, but I think being able to be remembered that you valued other people as being more valuable, as being more worthy than whatever project you had at the moment, 'cause so many projects come and go. It's something that we all need to do, is something we all need to work on, but yeah, investing in those relationships
[00:33:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And I think that's a good reminder. Both of your points are very good reminders, especially for entrepreneurs who, I'm sure that most of them feel that everything kind of weighs on them. And so it is easy to get deep into project mode and maybe forget sometimes that they are human. So being kind and investing and willing to disrupt your day. But yeah that's really powerful. Thank you both. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:34:16] Justin Bantuelle: Sure. I think for me it's, I like animals a lot. I have my pets that I'm very fond of. I spent a lot of time looking at animal photos and videos online as I'm sure everybody does. I'm particularly fond of ones where it's two completely different species of animal that seem to be best friends. That is what really helped shape a positive day for me in the morning, if I come across some of those and that is just the cutest thing in the world.
[00:34:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. How about you, Michael?
[00:34:44] Michael Roberts: For me, it's just being out, out somewhere where I'm just surrounded by nature and just getting that moment. And it's not, it doesn't make me smile in the same way, I guess, Justin, but it does kind of bring that peace every time I'm there of, no matter what else is going on, it's like, "Okay." Grounded, in a way and it's like, "Okay I'm here. I'm ready. And I can go face the day."
[00:35:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, both of you, for sharing your stories, your insights, your experiences, and even some advice. I really appreciate you taking the time today. This has been such a great conversation. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and I just wish you both the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:35:46] Justin Bantuelle: Thank you so much.
[00:35:48] Lindsey Dinneen: All right. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am at the moment, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we'll catch you next time.
[00:36:01] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Chad Bareither | Principal Consultant, Bareither Group Consulting | Process Improvement, Systems & People, & "Improve LESS"

Chad Bareither is the owner and principal consultant of Bareither Group Consulting. Chad shares his journey from working as a civilian engineer in the U.S. Army to becoming a Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt and consultant for medtech and pharma companies. Chad discusses his process improvement framework, the importance of understanding both systems and people, and insights from his recently published book "Improve LESS." He also covers the transition from being an employee to an entrepreneur and the qualities essential for leadership in the industry. 
 
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadbareither/ | https://www.bareithergroup.com/ | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTjC2ZBL3mqnriCeAIkmSlQ
Charity supported: Polaris Project
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at theleadingdifference@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 045 - Chad Bareither
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Chad Bareither. Chad is the owner and principal consultant of Bareither Group Consulting. He partners with med device and pharma company leaders to boost productivity. This is delivered through the Focus and Align Framework, the subject of his book, "Improve LESS.". Chad is a Certified Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt and holds a Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering from Michigan Technological University, as well as Master's degrees in both Industrial and Systems Engineering and Applied Statistics from Rutgers University. He has over 10 years of experience in the med device and pharma industries and almost 20 years of professional experience.
All right. Well, welcome to the show, Chad. I'm so excited to talk to you today.
[00:01:42] Chad Bareither: Yeah, thanks for having me on.
[00:01:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! I'd love if you wouldn't mind by starting off telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and maybe what led you to what you're doing now.
[00:01:54] Chad Bareither: Sure. So I started my career in the US Army as a civilian engineer. So my background's in engineering, mechanical, I have a degree in mechanical engineering and also industrial engineering. So I started out in the U. S. Army as a civilian doing acquisition projects. So we would design and then purchase componentry for our warfighters from various defense contractors.
And so my role in that was quality. So understanding are we designing all of the elements correctly. Then when they're being produced, are they meeting our specifications? And then once they're in stockpile, do they continue to work before we hand them to the brave men and women that are defending our freedom. And so I worked there for a while and pretty early found my niche that I was really into process improvement. So I would visit defense contractors, and if we had an issue, what I was really seem to have a knack for was helping to understand the process and make it better. So we could either expand capacity or have better quality.
And so that kind of bridged right into a unique program they were introducing at the time, which was called Lean Six Sigma, which is a corporate program for reducing variation and improving efficiency of processes and the corporation at large. So I was pretty lucky that these two things coincide at the same time is that I was finding my niche and they were rolling out a program that really focused in that. So I was able to get into one of those programs, get trained and certified.
And then I followed that path on to several other industries, including med device, pharma, and then was also a corporate employee in some utility, electric, natural gas. After my last corporate engagement, I went off on my own and I began consulting. So delivering the same services I had internally to those larger organizations. But now I have the ability to target smaller or growing organizations. In my consulting engagements, if you combine corporate experience and consulting engagement, it's somewhere around eight industries that I worked in.
But I really enjoy the work and the challenges in med device and pharma a lot more. There's the purpose behind it of serving patients, and there's also some really significant technical challenges that I just find are fascinating to learn about. So for the last-- oh, it's six years now-- I've been consulting delivering those services in various industries, but really trying to focus my space into the medtech arena.
[00:04:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. I appreciate it. And it's fascinating to hear how you started off with one focus and then it just continued to evolve and twist and turn into this amazing consulting career that you have now. So many questions, but the first is could seven year old Chad have possibly anticipated what you're doing now, since it's different than what you started off with.
[00:05:15] Chad Bareither: Yeah, no, I think seven year old Chad probably wanted to be a professional baseball player. But if I zoom forward a little bit from that, once middle school and high school, I always. naturally gravitated to our math and science was thinking it was going to be engineering. And I did, I studied engineering and most of my day is not engineering. It's really understanding people.
But what's fascinating is if I look back, I think what all of my engineering education taught me was really a system for solving problems, right? So the problems that we solved happen to be mechanical design or industrial design. Got it. But taking that mindset of problem solving and now saying, well, the systems that I work with on a daily basis with my customers are a little bit more complex because you have mechanical systems, but you also have people systems that are intertwined with that, right?
So, whether I've worked across the spectrum and still do of research and development, clinical trials, manufacturing and post market surveillance and across that. You can have systems set up, but people still operate it. So, it's difficult to just analyze your way into the perfect solution. Even if I can show on paper that it works, like you still need to understand the people elements of it. So I think that's been the biggest evolution through my career is early on, it was like, "I don't understand why we're doing this. It makes sense on paper." And it's like the change management component of that has been really something I've been able to develop personally, I'd say, over the last 6 to 10 years.
[00:06:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And I'm curious, so bridging that gap between systems and people and understanding that what looks good on paper might not translate as perfectly into real life as one would hope, because we're people and people are complex. So were there certain learning opportunities that you had that helped bridge that gap of gaining your expertise and knowledge in that way? Or what led you to be able to do that so efficiently now?
[00:07:23] Chad Bareither: Oof, well, you're assuming I do it efficiently now, so but I'd say I still believe we learn more from failures than we do from success, right? So, there are specific projects or engagements I can look back to. So I'll talk about one specifically. This was a medical device assembly plant. And the particular production line that we were working on, we were trying to increase capacity on, and we even had the team engaged, right? So we were doing everything right in terms of the engagement project, had the teams involved, understood their pain points. We were trying to make it easier for them. And then like on paper again, showed we could do the production line, with the main assembly line, with three operators instead of four.
And so we were really pushing for that because being just transparent, looking back now, it's like the productivity gain would have looked really sweet to management. But we had the operators telling us like, "I don't think it's going to work. I don't think it's going to work that way." And we're like, " No, it's going to work," right and pushing for it. And I don't know, you, you get a little focused on your own goals or whatever you, however you want to phrase that. And yeah it was a struggle to launch. And they ended up having to cover some of that with overtime. They made some adjustments long term, but that was a big learning for me of, I mean, if the people actually doing that work eight to 10 hours a day are telling you it's not going to work, like you should probably pull back and either, you've got more explaining to do, more improvements to do, or you should just maybe listen to them a little bit more. But you know, there's other scenarios I can look at that were.
You know, when I say failure, right? Not everything means it's a flaming dumpster fire, but sometimes you don't get exactly what you expect out of it. And a lot of it can, I can point back to and say, " Ooh, you know, I could have done a better job. It's not that the analysis was wrong. It's not that the tool we put in place or the management technique or the visualization, it's that we didn't have the right level of buy in or the right people buying in."
[00:09:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Well, I, thank you. I appreciate your honesty and transparency. But I do think to your point, failure or whatever we perceive to be as failure because it didn't work out quite the way we hoped for, is such a powerful learning tool if you can take it and go, "Okay, here's what worked. Here's what didn't. Here's what I can do better next time." And you don't have to go, "Okay, that was a waste." It's never a waste if you can learn from it.
[00:10:01] Chad Bareither: A hundred percent. And I think only in recent years, I'd say the last four to five years, that I've really gotten into that of more of a bias for action of, " What's the worst that's gonna happen?" And honestly, I'm not talking about changes that are gonna bankrupt a company, right? It's if you're changing the direction, but " Well, let's try it." So having a bias for action and thinking, just like you pointed out, that it's going to be a learning experience, right? So if you treat it more of an experiment, success isn't necessarily binary-- it was a success or it wasn't-- we learned something. Maybe we got better. Maybe we didn't.
But that means the next round, the engagement that we talked about before we started recording, I'm just coming back from-- we had two weeks of not going so well. And then the last week there was finally a breakthrough. And it was like, but I'm comfortable with it. The team was getting disengaged and I'm like, "We're going to get there! You guys stay positive, 'cause I know we're going to get there." And the failures we learned, we know so much more about that process now than we did three weeks ago.
[00:10:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And that brought up an interesting point. So persistence and the willingness or the bias to action, which I really liked the way you put that, the willingness to experiment is something that does take a level of comfort that maybe not everyone is so excited about. But I'm wondering what you have seen over the years as being some of the top qualities of a leader that contribute to that success and that willingness to experiment.
[00:11:33] Chad Bareither: Yeah. So, it helps me to think about specific leaders when I, that are like embodying that rather than just speak generically about it. And there was an R&D manager that I work with, his first name was John, but really took the stigma of failure, and I think not even using that word as much, out of it, and just saying, " Let's try and see what happens." And kind of building that learning mindset of, I'd rather move fast and learn something than move slow and get it perfect.
And in industries, especially like a bunch of the medtech fields, I know in some of the pharma clients I've worked with, they're looking at things like new technologies, new modality of disease and I'm not a scientist, but these are things that we've never done before. And so the mindset of trying to get it perfect-- like this leader I work with previously, John is like, "Why are we wanting to get it perfect? We won't get it perfect the first time. And if we try to, we're going to be moving too slowly." so that's kind of the first thing that I think of is taking the stigma out of failure and turning it more into trying, learning mindset, things like that.
I think the other thing is keeping open communication. And what I mean by that is there's another leader I'm thinking of and his first name was Mickey. And trying to have more open conversations. Information can be used for power, in some cases, or if you're harboring information or knowledge, like, " I'm the conduit, right? So then I become what puts it all together." And he was big on breaking down some of those and having more open conversations about what we're learning and what works and what doesn't work. And I mean, you see teams grow together faster.
And so then when you take those two qualities, if I take the stigma of failure off of the organization as a whole, and I work to build more open lines of communication and you build trust, right? So then I'm more, I don't want to say confident-- that's not maybe the right word to go after-- but there's less hesitancy, less fear, maybe. So not being confident doesn't mean I'm not fearful, but if I can take a little bit of that fear, a little bit of the stigma of failure out, I'm willing to try. I'm willing to go off on something new. And as we look at this industry of new advances in technology, new challenges of diseases, we're going to have to keep moving fast and do it in areas that are pretty uncertain. So those are some things that I think help, of saying that we're not going to get it right every time, opening up lines of communication to build trust in the team. And then we can really move faster to a shared goal.
[00:14:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I really like that. Thank you for that advice and insight. That's really helpful. So now with your own company, consulting, well, a couple of questions, but the first is what stage of business do you usually typically come in on? Or is there not necessarily a stage that's your sweet spot?
[00:14:28] Chad Bareither: There's, I wouldn't say right now there's a stage where I could say I have a, a litany of business cases for one stage, so multiple stages. I work with some organizations that are still in-- I mean, so if you think about the business, the corporate stage, established businesses, so they're past what would that be? Series two funding. So commercialized product. So I'm either working with the R&D pipeline on next generation products, next innovation, or in the operation space of improving manufacturing operations are typically the two areas that I'm working in the most.
[00:15:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Was there an interesting learning curve going from being an employee to being an entrepreneur?
[00:15:18] Chad Bareither: Yeah, so let me answer that two ways. The first is moving from being an internal employee to being a consultant, right? Because it's just a different, you're of a different role in the company, right? And then there's also to your point is great moving from being an employee to an entrepreneur. So if you don't mind, I'll kind of tackle both of those.
The first is moving from employee to consultant is interesting. Because I was on the employee side when you would have consultants come in. And so leaving the bad taste in my mouth from some consultants we had worked in, they're there to make an impact so that they can either upsell their services or whatever. And I can remember being on engagement. So it's like pushing so hard and just, " I have to work with these people when you leave. So you're kind of creating a mess for us." And just trying to meet people more where they're at.
But you know, there's an adage of "a prophet isn't recognized in their hometown." It's sometimes they just need someone from the outside to point out what everyone has showing. And I know that sounds simple, but sometimes you just need to come in and say, "Independent third party here. And yes, that is the problem." So it's nice that you have that sense of authority, but I am personally, I am very cautious about the fact of, look, these people need to live with the solution when I walk away. The worst thing in my mind could be helping a client solve a problem, and then it returned for them.
So even if they did want to call me back, that would be seen as not ideal in my mind. I want to help them get to a solution that then they can buy in and sustain. So that, that first change is going from internal employee to consultant where, you do have to make an impact, a splash, a return on investment, whatever you say. But, I'm cautious to also say, but they need to adopt the change. They need to own it. It can't just be my great idea.
The other side that you talked about is going from employee to entrepreneur, which is also an interesting transition. As an employee, there's some perceived safety and stability, and I say that just perceived, because depending upon the industry that you're in, as markets change and things like that, layoffs come, things of that nature. So job security is never a hundred percent, but there is some perceived job security and stability there.
But as you get past the startup stage, you start to specialize, which means your job responsibility narrows, right? So in a larger organization, typically you become a specialist, but not very broad in thinking, and, and so that can be comfortable as well. You develop some technical expertise. Moving into the entrepreneurial space, which you probably have dabbled in a little bit as an, as a business owner yourself is, you are simultaneously the chief marketing officer and IT support and delivery services, and fill in the blank.
So you're wearing a lot of hats. And it can be difficult to gravitate towards the stuff you're really good at. So, I am best at the delivery, the actual client engagements. But I recognize if I'm not doing sales and marketing, and building new connections like that, eventually that work goes away. So it's trying to manage yourself and not stay where you're comfortable, if that makes sense. And not just deep dive all the way down to specialty in one area and have to learn some of these things. Or, you know, find the right people to do it for you.
[00:18:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very insightful. So you are also a published author and I was wondering if you could share a little bit about your book.
[00:18:57] Chad Bareither: Yeah. So the name of the book I wrote in the fall of 2023, it was released, is called "Improve LESS" and intentionally thought provoking title that I got to it in a very roundabout way. The whole concept of the book started behind that, when I launched my consulting firm, I was still working full time as a corporate employee. So a friend of a friend asked if I can help. And I said, "Sure!" And that was a side gig. And then had another one come up and another one come up and then one of those clients wanted something more. And eventually I didn't have time to do a full time corporate job anymore.
But then I had three clients that were all kind of different phases and asking for different things. And so I had one client that was really focused on strategy. And, " We need to align our strategy. We need a better way to cascade that in the organization." Another client that was really focused on process improvement. "We want to build our problem solving and process improvement skills for the organization." And I had a third client that really wanted to have better eyes on the business, so we would call it a daily management system, visualization of metrics and understanding the business so we can diagnose problems.
Well, once you get good at strategy, then you actually have to go improve the processes. Once I'm pretty good at process improvement, I should probably align those strategically. Once I can see the problems in my business, I need to-- so essentially all of those three clients needed the three parts that were together. So I sat back and I said, "Well, this is starting to become a little bit of a mess. What would I do if I had a new client? What, where would I start?"
So I started writing down the process really for my own benefit. And then working with a business coach, I was like, "I'm going to give this away as like a PDF or whatever." They're like, "No, you should turn this into a book." And I'm like, "Like a book?" And they're like, "Yeah." And I had no idea how to do that. So, you know, back to our conversation about entrepreneurs is, so I found someone who did. And I'm work with someone else, a publishing strategist helped me go through everything, which I thought it was pretty good, in terms of editing, that was not the case.
So, went through some content editing and professional editing, and then, hired a professional illustrator from my hand drawn drawings. So, yeah, it was a journey, but that's how it started was me saying, " Well, what's my process?" And so really the purpose of the book is it is a framework. Anyone can pick it up and follow it. And I also tried to keep it short. I don't like to be very verbose in the communications to my clients because they need to understand it. So it's literally something that you could read in a weekend and start on Monday.
[00:21:39] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. So you've written this book, and you have your consulting firm, and what are you excited about coming up? Maybe both personally and professionally.
[00:21:53] Chad Bareither: Yeah. Oh, I think it's easier for me to answer personally. So I'll start there. So my wife and I have three children and they're all pretty active in different competitive endeavors, gymnastics. We talked before, my middle daughter is a dancer, the two girls, the gymnast and the dancer, also play volleyball. And then my youngest son is on a baseball and a soccer team. And so, I mean, I just love supporting them in those. Now I say all that academics are also important. They're doing well academically. That's kind of the condition for doing the sports and stuff like that, but really pouring into them right now.
It's It's going to sound so cliche, but our oldest is 13 right now. And some pictures came up, memories on my phone, and it's goes by quick. So personally, I'm just excited about in them right now. And they're turning-- I use this term and my coworker laughs at me-- but they're turning into real people, with their own personalities and their own likes, and it's frustrating at times because they have their own thoughts. Yeah. But it's fascinating right now. And just being able to spend more time investing in them is, is great.
Professionally is exciting to really I'm niching back down into this medtech area, right? So I'm carrying a pharma client. I came off a pharma engagement. That was just at the beginning of this year and I've worked in other industries, but I'm just really fired up about the work, the technical challenges in these areas. So getting back into some client engagements that are med device and pharmaceuticals, and then, pharmaceuticals has stuff going on that I don't, I can't begin to understand. Bio therapeutic proteins and cell therapy stuff, which is-- it's fascinating technology, but it's still process, right? And so I might not understand the science, but I do understand process. And I've been able to help in those areas. And it's just, it's humbling to be contributing to the field. So I'm really excited to niche back down in that area and do some more work in this medtech field.
[00:23:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And when it comes to medtech, are there any moments working with clients that stand out to you as just confirmation that you are in the right place in the right industry at the right time?
[00:24:10] Chad Bareither: Yeah. So, I know very little about cell therapy, but basically, you grow stem cells and you make them into other type of cells that would be beneficial. If there's people in cell therapy listening to this, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But I mean, it's just, it's mind boggling the science, but I was working with that group and so they were building up their pilot capabilities. And I'm looking at for more like an industrial engineering, manufacturing point of view, developing standard work. And so they're like, "Oh, this is so helpful." And I'm just thinking, I'm like, "I don't even understand what you guys do. So the fact that I can be of any contribution here is..."
But I think, pulling back on that is, you need to invest in your strength. So here's, very skilled multi year experience, PhD scientists. And sometimes they just need someone to help them with structuring up the process flow and the capacities and the standard work that they need to do this consistently. And I'm good at that. And so this kind of harkens back to our conversations about entrepreneurship, right, of knowing what you're good at and knowing what you need help with. And I just, I know what I'm good at. And if I find clients that need help in that area, I'm thrilled to support it. But that was one engagement where it was like, "I understand about zero of what you just explained to me, but I think I can help you."
[00:25:36] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's fantastic. One of the things I've noticed and really appreciated about the medtech industry is everybody is really good about celebrating and acknowledging how we all fit into the efforts to make it successful. So even if you are not the scientist, or you are also an engineer, but say in my case, I'm not a scientist, I'm not an engineer, but I do have a marketing ability. And the respect mutually that occurs for everybody's contributions, I think is really special in the medtech industry. I'm wondering if you experienced that too.
[00:26:17] Chad Bareither: Yeah. You know, I think there's definitely times it's kind of like a family, right? Families fight, the families get along together. There's definitely times where it's like people are like, "Ah, sales department doesn't know what they're doing," or and you're like, but at the end of the day, you recognize you do need all those parts. Unfortunately, these technologies and this research is expensive. So you do need to sell, right? I mean, that's a reality. So you're right. They do all need to get to, and if people slow down, I think you're right. Eventually everyone's, " Yes, we need all these parts to work."
I think there's definitely times where people are having a bad time and they get a little grumpy and they're like, "That department doesn't know what they're doing." But it's, but no, I think all the departments are actually really good at what they're doing. So, you just look at the growth that you're seeing in the industry and the valuation of some of these companies and it's, they know what they're doing and they're serving a need that, that we have supporting our health and wellness. And so it's cool. It's really cool to see that all come together.
I think you get a very interesting view of that at some of the smaller organizations 'cause there is a lot more of that trust and that team camaraderie, but even, you know, I worked for a fortune 500 company when I was in in med device, as a corporate employee. And you still have that, within the product teams, within the production teams, that they're there to support each other, they're there for the win. There's also a healthy dose of competition in the industry, I think, that makes it a really driven. So it's, it's fun to be a part of it's fast paced because of the personalities. It's fast paced because of the science. It's fast paced because of the competitiveness with other competitors in the industry. So yeah, it's a fun space to be in.
[00:28:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a master class on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach?
[00:28:17] Chad Bareither: Yeah. So this is maybe, I'm hopefully not being risk averse here, because I would teach something that I'm already good at teaching. So some of my favorite things to teach are structured problem solving. So most people that are in any type of leadership position got there because they were probably good at solving problems. And I think where we have challenges in, as organizations grow, is that not everyone solves a problem the same way. So how do you develop the new talent coming up to be like those next leaders? And you can't, you shouldn't just rely on individual people to be like, "We'll just find the good problem solvers and they'll go up."
I've seen in organizations where you can really multiply, even exponentially grow, the pace of improvement by having structured problem solving in. So that's what I would do. Personally, that's DMAIC formatted problem solving. It's a five phase problem solving approach: Define, Measure, Analyze, Improve and Control. So that's something that I love teaching because I love the lightbulb moment that goes off in people's heads and we teach them that. There is a portion of that is statistics and I love teaching statistics because most people think this is going to be the worst thing ever and I tried to make it a little bit fun and they're like, "Oh, that was fun. And I learned something." And that's what fires me up. So yeah, it would be structured problem solving. That's what I would teach a masterclass on.
[00:29:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, I like it. And how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:29:49] Chad Bareither: Oh, my. So my love language that I express as in service. Helpful, that's, I think that's the main thing. Whether it's in a client engagement or in the neighborhood or the family, I enjoy helping people. And so whether that's consulting on the launch of a new diagnostic device or helping someone repair their tractor, right? I enjoy engaging and learning with people and solving problems together. So I really like helping people. So I think I'd like to be remembered in that way. Helpful.
[00:30:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I like it. Absolutely. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:30:38] Chad Bareither: One thing. Well, I don't know. I've smiled a lot this week, seeing pictures of my kids when they were younger, because I don't know, maybe my iPhone's just paying tricks on me. It keeps showing pictures of my kids when they were little. So that's it. I think right now, just the point of life that I'm at right now as kids, two of my brothers just had babies as well. So little kids and just me realizing like my kids are never going to be that age again. I've been on travel and seen a lot of little kids in different cities, and it's sweet because it's so simple. Their world is so simple at that age. So I think it makes me smile just because the innocence is there. Yeah. I'm gonna stick with that.
[00:31:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, great answer. It's, it's special to witness and it always brings a smile too. Especially little kids at airports that are dragging their tiny little backpacks or rollie bags behind them and they've got their best stuffed friend. Oh my gosh, it's so cute.
[00:31:35] Chad Bareither: So one thing that's been interesting to see is when people have younger kids, and maybe they're misbehaving or maybe they're just excited, right? And the parents are kind of flustered. It's just it's, it brings a smile to my face. Not because the parents are flustered. It's just because I can remember being a parent and you make a big deal out of it, and it's man, but I just appreciate the innocence and the genuine joy that this small human is trying to have right now. And it's, I think, that's the thing right now in my life. That's bringing a smile every time I see it or think about it.
[00:32:05] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. I love it. Well, Chad, this has been an incredible conversation. I really appreciate your insights and advice and everything that you're doing. If anyone's listening and needs some outside support, please definitely get in touch with Chad. We are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Polaris Project, which is a non governmental organization that works to combat and prevent sex and labor trafficking in North America. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:32:42] Chad Bareither: Thanks a lot. And you got a lot going on. So I wish you continued success in all your endeavors as well.
[00:32:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:33:04] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dr. Silvia Blemker | Co-Founder & CSO, Sprinkbok Analytics | Teaching & Advancing Biomedical Engineering & Muscle Analytics

Dr. Silvia Blemker is a distinguished professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Virginia and co-founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Springbok Analytics. Silvia discusses her fascinating journey from a curious child who loved learning about anatomy to now leading groundbreaking research at the Multi-scale Muscle Mechanophysiology Lab. Learn how her innovative AI-driven muscle analytics technology is reshaping fields ranging from sports medicine to neuromuscular diseases. Silvia shares her passion for mentorship, the rewards of pushing scientific boundaries, and the thrill of solving complex challenges. 
 
Guest links: https://www.springbokanalytics.com | http://www.uvam3lab.com
Charity supported: Sleep in Heavenly Peace
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at theleadingdifference@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 044 - Dr. Silvia Blemker
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I am very excited to introduce as my guest, Sylvia Blemker. Sylvia is the Robert Thompson Distinguished Professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Virginia. She leads the Multi-scale Muscle Mechanophysiology Lab, which develops multi-skill computational and experimental techniques to study skeletal muscle biomechanics and physiology. The lab explores a range of applications including speech disorders, vision impairments, aging, muscular dystrophies, and human performance. New projects include developing models that incorporate for sex differences in musculoskeletal structure and simulating the effects of estrogen levels on muscle regeneration. Dr. Blemker is also Co-Founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Springbok Analytics, a company commercializing image based muscle analytics AI technology for many applications from muscle diseases to sports medicine.
All right. Well, welcome. And thank you so much for being here. I'm so delighted to talk to you today, Sylvia.
[00:01:55] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Thank you. I'm excited to be here also.
[00:01:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, would you mind starting off by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and maybe what led you to medtech?
[00:02:08] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Sure. So I am born and raised in Lawrence, Kansas, a child of two immigrants who are from Argentina. And they're both professors. So from a very early age, I was exposed to the world of academia. My dad was a mathematician. My mom was a math person also. So, math and STEM was always from the get go part of my life and I knew it would be in the future.
And when I was trying to decide what to study as an undergraduate student, I learned of this field called biomedical engineering that was somewhat of a new discipline at that point. I started college in 1993. And I just thought it sounded perfect because I was really interested in medicine. I loved anatomy. I was one of those geeks that had anatomy parts, like models. I had an ear and I had an eyeball and a heart, all these different things. I just thought anatomy was really interesting and cool.
And I always thought being a doctor of some kind would be really cool because it would mix my interest in biology and anatomy with wanting to help people, but I don't think that was the right path for me, and it also wouldn't really leverage my interest in math and physics and stuff like that. So once I learned about biomedical engineering, I thought, "Wow, that sounds really perfect for me." And so it turned out it was because I did my undergrad in biomedical engineering from Northwestern University. I did my master's degree there, and then I went on to Stanford University. I got my PhD in mechanical engineering. But honestly, I would have been bioengineering, but back then there was no bioengineering department. So I was in mechanical engineering, but focused on biomechanical engineering.
And now I'm a professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Virginia. Been that since 2006. And I also, it's been about 10 years now, co founded a company that's in the medtech industry. It's called Springbok Analytics, and it's commercializing software to go from a rapid MRI scan to a fast assessment of muscle health and fitness.
[00:04:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Well, thank you for providing some background and whatnot. That was so fun to hear about, you know, your interest in biology from even a young age and having all these models and that's just, that makes me smile. I love that.
[00:04:35] Dr. Silvia Blemker: like collecting bugs, too. That's weird.
[00:04:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Hey, you were interested in it. I love that. So I have so many questions, but the first thing that comes to mind: I love the name of your company and I'm curious why you chose Springbok.
[00:04:50] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Yeah, that is a great question. So, it was inspired by the springbok, the animal. It's very fast moving antelope that runs fast. It's very agile, jumps high. And the reason why we went that direction is our first market at Springbok was in human performance and elite athletes. And so we were using this technology to help athletes recover from injury and get to their maximum performance. So that's where that went. And, you know, honestly, when we first started it, we just kind of like dreamt that up and didn't know if it would stick, but now it has. And so here we are.
[00:05:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. So, yeah. So, okay. With the origin of that company, you brought something to market that has previously not existed in the way that you're doing very uniquely. Could you share a little bit more about what makes what you do so unique and how it's helped solve or covered a gap in the market, basically?
[00:05:54] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Sure. So I guess maybe while I answer that question, I'll tell you a little bit about where it came from in terms of the initial ideas. So I think that really answers your question too. So, so we're actually, it started as a research project in a combination of my lab and a few other collaborators at UVA. So started pure research funded by an organization that pro wanted to promote translational research. So research that starts on the very academic basic setting, but is translated to the outside world. You know, we do a lot of research that's very impactful, but it stays in the lab. And the idea is that some of it is ready to go out there.
So, having said that, the basic idea for the company actually really came out of some conversations I had with a collaborator, an orthopedic surgeon, who treats children that have cerebral palsy, in particular helps in terms of improving specific movement disorders that kids with cerebral palsy have. And so I've had a longstanding interest in understanding what's happening with muscles in these children because though it's an injury to the brain kind of right around birth which leads to these abnormal movement patterns, that ends up influencing their muscles and bones because muscles and bones grow based on the way you use them. And so this happening as a child means their muscles have a fair number of issues. And so I've been interested in that question, obviously, is if we know that, then we can help better improve mobility and treatments for these children.
And so, in my research, I've been making use of MRI a lot to study muscle, because that's a great way to do that in humans. If you're studying a mouse, which we do somewhat in my lab also, you can do a lot with a mouse muscle. But if you want to study human muscles, there's only so much you can do unless you're studying a cadaver, which obviously is not relevant. So, we use MRI and develop these fancy imaging techniques or interesting ways to get a bunch of information about the muscle from the MRI machine, MRI pictures, and do lots of different modeling and things like that.
So I was pretty young professor and I was developing new research ideas and this clinician said, his name is Dr. Abel said, "You know, all these interesting ideas about what you can learn about muscle from MRI is cool, but you know this is not something we could ever use in the clinic because the way that you're doing these scans is very hard. It's very research oriented. You're only studying one muscle, and really in cerebral palsy and impacts all the muscles of the in the body, but in particular for movement of the leg. And we don't have a way to, to quantify that or understand that. And that's what I really need to have in order to figure out how to treat these kids." 'Cuz ultimately he's has to do surgeries on a bunch of muscles and he has to make the decisions about which muscles to do surgeries on just by looking at the outside of the child and not really having a sense for what's going on at the muscle level.
So I was like, "Okay, well, maybe we'll try to solve that problem." Cause it seems like the problem I wanted to solve maybe isn't all that useful to you right now. So, that, that really was the basis for Springbok the initial idea was to develop a way to collect MRI rapidly and then transform that into a assessment of all the muscles of the lower extremity in particular for these kids because there's really no other way to get information at the muscle level.
We have ways to kind of assess how strong people are. But that's what we say in biomechanics, we call it at the joint level, you know, but like, for example, if you wanted to see how strong your knee is, you extend your knee for example, to get your quadriceps, but there's four quadriceps muscles. So if there's a weakness, which muscle is the one that is, you would have no idea what that was if from the outside. Same thing for all other joints. So, that's the idea is like to get to that detailed information and in this particular application it's very obvious why you need that because they're going to go in and do surgery on individual muscles. So they want to do the ones that actually need it.
And then, you know, the premise of where we went from there is that, the need to have information at the muscle level has a lot of different applications outside of that. And so that's sort of one thing led to another. And again, because we were funded by this grant agency called The Culture Foundation that wanted to promote translational research, one of the early pieces of feedback they gave us was the market that we was associated with the application we were first exploring in cerebral palsy was too small to start with. And there's too many barriers of entry in terms of being able to actually implement in practice.
So that's what led us to shift to other areas in particular. And in particular, elite sports because some of those barriers don't exist. The financial aspects are not nearly as challenging to start. And so it's actually a path I've heard of a lot of other healthtech or medtech companies to go start in sports and then veer into once they've gotten a bunch of data and validation, veer into the medical tech, and then that's precisely our path as well.
[00:11:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. Well, well, thank you for sharing more about that. That was such a great explanation specifically about the quadriceps. I really latched onto that because what an interesting problem, but then what a great solution that you all have developed. And, you know, I'm wondering, looking back before you started the company and really dove in, could you have anticipated that you were going to become this entrepreneur? And did you expect that this might be part of your path or was this kind of just a happy coincidence after the research developed?
[00:11:49] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Definitely did not expect it to be part of my path.
[00:11:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:11:53] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Absolutely. By no means, my brother was the one that went, like he was an engineer too, and he worked for IBM and he became more of a business man. That's what I would call him. But, yeah, it was really, you know, a multitude of things, the encouragement. I had some really good, you know, co founders. Craig Meyer and Joe Hart were both colleagues and they were excited. It was sort of like at that point, it was like, "Well, I don't want to be the limiting factor here. We should all do this together, right?" Found some really fantastic people to help it get started because, of course, when you first start something, there is a lot of risk there.
And also, the three of us co founders had day jobs. We're still professors. And so we found a great actually grad of our program. To be our first CTO or first official employee. You really need to have that team around you. It's not just one person or two people, there's a lot that goes into this type of effort. And so I think without that, for sure, wouldn't have done it. And then one thing led to the other, I guess. It's definitely has pushed-- I can speak for myself-- out of my comfort zone a lot, you know, and it still does. But I think that's why I keep doing it also is I've learned a lot.
[00:13:10] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. Well, and I think that it brings different challenges than you're probably experiencing in the academic side of things, and that's its own challenge too. But I love the fact that, speaking with leaders such as yourself, you're always pushing yourself to the next thing. You're not really just happy being.
[00:13:29] Dr. Silvia Blemker: My husband might appreciate it more, but
[00:13:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yes, this is fair. Yeah. Well, okay. So, so just briefly switching sides to the academic journey that you've taken. So can you speak a little bit more about the program that you are in and helping to continue to develop? And what are you excited about even just with the university as you continue to grow?
[00:13:56] Dr. Silvia Blemker: So I am a professor at heart. Right now I'm in a particularly interesting kind of stage of my career where I'm still a professor at UVA, but I'm actually part time professor and I'm also officially employed by Springbok. I'm a co founder, but I'm right now working as Chief Science Officer. So I do have two jobs.
[00:14:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Nice.
[00:14:17] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Yeah.
[00:14:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh.
[00:14:20] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Sons to o, but it's all good. It's, you know, it's nice full life, but so anyways, I have a research lab called, we call ourselves the Multiscale Muscle Mechanophysiology Lab. It's a mouthful. So we just call her, we say M3 Lab or M cubed. And we have PhD students, be it biomedical engineering, PhD students who are doing research and with in my lab going towards their PhD. I have postdoc, so students that have finished their PhD and continuing training for research in my lab, and then a whole bunch of undergraduate students who are getting involved in research for the first time. And the mentorship there that I do is ultimately, I think, honestly, what I love the most. And I joke with them because I now encourage all of my students to do internships while they're in their graduate program. I think it's incredibly valuable for a lot of different reasons that I could chat through. But I tell them, "You know, I never did that. And I did my internship in my late 40s. Fortunately, I realized that I made the right career choice, but I did it a little late. You should do it earlier."
[00:15:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Oh, nice.
[00:15:28] Dr. Silvia Blemker: So anyways, I love my students all the way from ultimately in the lab, like exploring, you know, I talk a lot about with them, "You know, what we're doing is exploring the boundaries of knowledge together, pushing it and understanding where the boundaries are and figuring out how to push them in ways that can advance the world, really." And doing that with the student together and essentially I find myself like right behind them. I'm like, "Okay, keep going, teach me while you do it." I just find that, I just love doing that. It's very rewarding. And it's a real impact to be able to train other people to do this work. And there's the relationship aspect of it that is very valuable to me. So I just love teaching and hopefully inspiring new students to get involved in the kind of work I do, or help them figure out what they want to do. I think in the industry in the startup setting that mentorship is also a big part of it, but you know, it's just it's different.
So one of the big projects we have that is actually the cool thing is, it's empowered by the startup company. So there is a synergy there which I think is really cool. So we are in the lab creating the next generation versions of computer models of the body that account for differences between men and women, between males and females. So in the world of movement biomechanics, in addition to using MRI as a common tool, another way that we study human movement and to try to figure out what's happening on the inside of bodies is to use computer modeling where we have models that sort of help try to describe the person in as much detail as possible from the inside, their bones, joints, muscles, everything, how their muscles move, and combine that with measurements of motion from the outside and physics and use all that to figure out how the person, how their muscles are working.
There's a lots of different questions that you can answer once you have a model like that. The problem is that the model that everybody uses is based on data from like a 5'10 man. And then we scale it to fit anybody. So it doesn't even actually probably represent the 5'10 man, honestly. It's kind of an average. We're doing a big study where we collect MRI data of a large number of males and females, and we're doing a whole bunch of other measurements to allow the field to put that model aside and do a much better job at representing the population in particular, and accounting for the differences between male and female, because a lot of clinical problems, conditions, questions, issues that are the answer to them are different between male and females. And as a field, we don't really have ways to handle that. And I think that we need to do better than that.
So it's an interesting project because It's a very, it's, there's a lot of interesting technical thing problems that we're solving to do that, to do these modelings, models at scale and stuff like that. But it's also a bit of like a public service model or a project where we're answering these questions, but ultimately going to give these models to the community so that they can do their research better too.
[00:18:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. It, you know, it continues to boggle my brain when I hear things like this, where it's like, "Yeah, we forgot to consider half the population." And I, you know, shouldn't make me laugh very much, I'm just very thankful, is really what I'm going to get to, of people like you who are going, "Wait a second, maybe this one thing that we've used all this time could be done more effectively and represent, like you said, just a better understanding of humans." So I...
[00:19:07] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I've wondered about this myself a lot, how do we come to be? And I think it's this interesting difference between thinking about the impact of what your science is versus how to do the science well, because as scientists were trained, take out all other extra variables so that you can answer the question, you can control for everything that's your questions not to do with so that you can answer your question or test your hypothesis. And so, if you add sex as a variable, that confounds your question. And then, if anything, it just means that you have to double your sample size, you have to account for that. And so to do it well, but maybe with less resources, it would make sense scientifically to go to one sex. So that's why that happens, right?
But then, if you're thinking about, "Well, yeah, but then I only answered that question for one sex," then you would do it differently. So I think that's where it comes from. Honestly, I don't think my predecessors were necessarily sexist or anything. I think they were doing things in the way that made sense scientifically by keeping things constant and wanting to have clean results. So that is what it is, but I think in a world where we're thinking more about the impact of what we do, we can't do that anymore.
[00:20:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, well, and I thank you for sharing that. I think that's a really great perspective and realizing that sometimes It's easy to get annoyed by something that when we don't understand maybe where it came from or why somebody chose the route they did and maybe there was a very just practical reason for it. And so I love that you shared that. Thank you for doing that.
[00:20:53] Dr. Silvia Blemker: But I will say that I have gotten annoyed though when you ask the question, like, "Why did you just do men?" Sometimes the answer is just, "Well, that's just how it's done." Not reasonable. I don't think that's, I don't think that's an...
[00:21:07] Lindsey Dinneen: A lazy answer.
[00:21:08] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:21:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. So, you know, either in your academic journey or perhaps in your entrepreneurial journey, are there any moments that stand out that really kind of affirm to you, "I am in the right industry, doing the right thing with my life?"
[00:21:29] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Oh, huh. That's an interesting question. I'll tell you when I know that I'm doing the right thing, when I'm excited to get up and do it
[00:21:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Morning, I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to work all this. This is exciting. I want to figure this out." That's usually what gets me up. Like my husband knows when I'm, we call it "locked in" because, you know, we have Gen Z kids, when I'm really trying to figure something out. And that, that really like gets me like figure something out that I know is important and impactful. I just love doing that. I think ultimately that's what I like and being creative and coming up with solutions and questions and stuff like that. That's not, I don't know if that's answering your question though.
[00:22:13] Lindsey Dinneen: It actually, well, it does though, because I mean, everyone answers that in different ways, but what I love is the fact that it's your daily life. That's a great answer to that question. It's, " I'm curious. I'm excited. I want to work with these students and solve these problems." And that's a dream.
[00:22:32] Dr. Silvia Blemker: That's what I, that's what gets me up in the morning. I mean, obviously not every day can be filled with these super intriguing things. There's a lot about a daily routine of any job that involves other things. And I try to learn to do those. Like one example of that for me was when I first started as a graduate student. As a scientist, a researcher, you have to present your results or give presentations a fair amount, whether it be to your lab group or to your thesis committee or in at a conference or a seminar. And then ultimately as a teacher, you have to do that all the time too.
And early on, I really did not like doing that. It was really painful for me. I was really anxious about it. I loved sitting there working stuff out on my computer. That I loved, I knew, but I did not think I could do any-- presenting was scary. The first time I had to go presented a conference, I literally memorized every single word of the presentation to the word, and even my friends, my graduate student friends who I shared a hotel room with, they could give my presentation. They literally could, but now I absolutely love presenting. It's something that I've come to really enjoy all aspects of it. So that's an example of maybe not everything initially seems like that's what I'm going to love doing, but sometimes you can surprise yourself.
[00:23:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, and I actually, to expand on that, I think the idea of you never know what your next sort of joyful surprise is going to be. So try the things and we'll discover that not everything is for you, but that's such great advice also for students, I feel like in particular, or maybe those young in their career is, "Just experiment, try it." You know, use it as this exciting time to just see. And yeah, you might even hate it the first couple of times, but you never know.
[00:24:27] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Yeah. Yeah. You never know. You never know. Absolutely.
[00:24:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, this is going to be an interesting one because I'm going to pivot the conversation and ask you something that I ask all my guests, but in your case, you are used to teaching and giving classes. So the question is, if you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a master class on anything you want, what would you choose to teach and why?
[00:24:52] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Oh, a million dollars. Oh, but I, like, I love teaching,
[00:25:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I know. That's why I was like, oh man, this is gonna be interesting.
[00:25:07] Dr. Silvia Blemker: I think it was last year I was so proud of the undergraduate students. They give these awards to professors and I got the Lecturer of the Year award. So that was fun. And then I brought it home and my teenage son was like, "Oh yeah, yeah, that tracks. Mom's the lecturer of the year."
[00:25:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!
[00:25:27] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Momly lectures. So anyways, it's hard to turn it off, but let's see, what would I give it about? I mean, it would probably be something about how muscles work 'cause I love talking about muscles. Honestly, like at the end of the day, that's now I'm kind of all in it. So I, I like talking about that stuff. Randomly about tennis too. I love tennis. I play tennis as a very low level tennis player, but I've become a tennis nerd. So if I had another job, I would love to be like a tennis announcer, but the science tennis announcer to talk about the physics and stuff like that, biomechanics. I would love that.
[00:26:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I would love that. That would make it so much even more interesting to me because I'd go, "Oh my word, I had no idea that this was what's happening here." And yeah, that's cool. Excellent. Okay. Well, I like it. Well, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:26:23] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Ultimately for my children, like Mom to Jack and Daniel Blemker, number one, then wife to Wes and the rest of my family. I think, ultimately, that's the most important, right? And then as a mentor to my students.
[00:26:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:26:42] Dr. Silvia Blemker: And then for like, you know, doing things that help people. Products that we've put out there, I feel like we've had an impact and we continue to see the potential impact. But honestly, that isn't really about me. It's about the impact. So I don't know that I-- I guess it's good to get credit for stuff like that, but ultimately it's just cool to know that it's had an impact and it's really connected to a lot of people not just me, so I think it's cool like sometimes I do reflect on, when I see cool stuff that the company's doing like "Wow, that was my idea. That's cool." But it's like not just that, right? An idea is just an idea. There's so much more. And the people that we have at Springbok doing, it's just a fantastic team of just ridiculously smart people who are also great, work well as a team and really value having a positive environment and they're fun. They're funny. So that's all cool.
[00:27:39] Lindsey Dinneen: That's awesome. That is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:27:50] Dr. Silvia Blemker: I have a few different things, maybe. Well, the first one that comes to mind, honestly, is every time, and this is one of my favorite things about doing Springbok, is every time we get like an interesting new scan in, and we look at a large range of individuals now from people with muscle disease, neuromuscular disease, and all the way to NBA players and everywhere in between. But whenever I see one that's different, I'm like, "Ooh, that's cool. That makes me smile." So I guess that's muscles. And then also, I guess the other one is just seeing like a mentee or student shine in some way. One of my former student just defended her PhD two weeks ago, and just sitting there watching her do her PhD defense, she's phenomenal. It was just amazing. I mean, who wouldn't smile at that? But
[00:28:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing, and I love how it all ties together, just your answers are consistent, but I, what I love about hearing that is this just thread of appreciation for muscles and anatomy and impact and the students and the lives that you're touching. So I, you know, I definitely, I love that you're doing what you love and that it brings you joy. That's the best. Yeah.
[00:29:11] Dr. Silvia Blemker: That's so nice. That makes me smile.
[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been such a joy for me actually, to get to talk to you and learn more about your background and what gives you energy, what gets you up in the morning. And so I just really appreciate you sharing about all the great work that you're doing. And I just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:29:38] Dr. Silvia Blemker: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for producing such a cool podcast. So very much appreciated.
[00:29:45] Lindsey Dinneen: much. Thank you. Well, thanks for bringing a smile to my face. And thank you also to everyone who is tuning in today. And if you're as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we'll catch you next time.
[00:30:01] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Nile Harris | CEO, HVG Executive Solutions | Balancing Strategy & Execution, Building High-Performing Teams, & MedTech Advancements

Nile Harris, a seasoned leader with two decades of experience in the MedTech industry, is the founder and CEO of HVG Executive Solutions and currently serves as a director in the life sciences practice at Alvarez & Marsal. Nile shares her diverse career journey from financial services to MedTech, including roles at Medtronic and Abbott, and her current work in management consulting. Emphasizing the value of lifelong learning, Nile discusses her philosophy on leadership, blending strategy with tactical execution, and the importance of adapting rapidly. She also reflects on pivotal moments, like nearly quitting due to the emotional challenges in medtech sales, and her passion for closing healthcare disparity gaps. 
Guest links: https://gapdemystified.com | https://hvg.llc
Charity supported: Opportunity International
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 043 - Nile Harris
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Nile Harris. Nile is a highly skilled and versatile leader who has made significant impact in the medtech industry for two decades from the C suite to the operating room and companies such as Medtronic and Abbott. Her agility was forged through a successful cross functional career, spanning corporate strategy and development, product marketing, field sales and marketing, strategic market insights, commercialization, market access, and executive coaching. Nile is an expert advisor and mentor for Life Science Tennessee and the Nashville Entrepreneur Center focused on early stage startups. She is the CEO and Founder of HVG Executive Solutions and currently serves as Director in the life sciences practice at Alvarez and Marsal.
All right. Well, thank you so much for being here, Nile. I'm so excited to speak with you today.
[00:01:48] Nile Harris: Thank you. I'm happy and excited to be here as well.
[00:01:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind starting off by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and what led you to MedTech.
[00:02:03] Nile Harris: Yeah. Interesting story. Happy to share my journey to MedTech. I tripped into it and loved it. I began my career out of undergrad in financial services, actually interned all through undergrad and financial services. And I loved being on a trading floor-- I was actually a licensed broker at one point-- loved working on trading floors. I'm originally from Chicago, worked at the Board of Trade, Chicago Board of Options Exchange, but it wasn't a cultural fit. And I felt like I wanted to give more or put more out into the world other than making more money, essentially.
And I went to business school at the University of Michigan and did my internship at Lily in Indianapolis and absolutely loved healthcare. And it had never occurred to me that healthcare was an option. And I spent my summer there as IT Project Manager supporting clinical trials. And I was like, I thought this was just amazing. And so I was recruited to Medtronic coming out of Michigan and they had an IT rotation, leadership rotation program. They're sort of a internal consulting group. And I was in that program for two years. And when I came out of that program, I went to the strategy and corporate development group within Medtronic. And that's when I really saw what we did as a company there. I really have more exposure to the products, the lives that we were saving, and the impact that we were having. And I had really no idea what it took to get a product from bench to bedside. Like, what does it take to get a product designed and into a patient?
And I decided to go from corporate strategy and development to field sales and marketing. So I was like, I thought that there was no better way to learn it than just to roll up my sleeves and get into it. And so I went from making PowerPoints and Excel spreadsheets to being out in the field. So I went from being in Minneapolis to Nashville, where I was doing Therapy Development Specialist. So it was a hybrid between sales and marketing. And I spent a lot of time in hospitals. And the part of my job was essentially to grow the pie for thoracic and abdominal aortic aneurysm stent grafts, and then grow our piece of the pie. So I was in surgeries, but I was also doing strategy and sort of marketing and attracting customers and refer referral patterns. And it was great. This was like, this was magical to me. And I had no idea before I got into Medtronic that this was a world that was even open to me. And so I just got deeper into it. I did product management, did value based healthcare and pricing.
I did a stop for a couple of years in K 12 education. I'm very passionate about closing the health, wealth, and education disparity gap in America. And so I was a Broad Resident for the system management of school systems. And so I led strategy for a charter school system in Nashville, but went back into working with, with life science companies at a small consulting firm, and then was doing some independent consulting, started doing executive coaching, specifically within medtech for those people who are trying to get to that next level of leadership and trying to figure out how do you run multi generational teams? And then I was at Abbott for a little bit as a Global Director there and built a team there. And now I do management consultant. And so I've been in medtech now for 20 years. And what I love about being a consultant is that I get to take all of those experiences and how companies bring innovations to life.
[00:06:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing about your background. What an amazing breadth of experience you have. And also I love the thread of your lifelong learning and curiosity. And, oh my gosh. I mean, so I looked at your, LinkedIn profile and I was like, okay, so you have a BA, a BS, an MEd, and an MBA. So clearly education.
[00:06:50] Nile Harris: I do I believe education is important and so the BS in finance and the BA in communications happened because at the University of Illinois, you can get a BA in Finance or a BS in Finance. And so I went the BS route, but it was very technical. We had these highly technical economic classes, statistical modeling, all these things. There weren't a lot of soft skill classes, and I wanted to incorporate that into my experience. And then I realized, well, if I earned a certain number of hours, I could be a dual degree versus dual major. And my junior year, I had no idea, but my junior year, I got this letter from the university saying that all of my advanced placement classes from high school transferred and I had a semester's worth of additional hours. So I spent an additional summer after I finished one degree and then I was able to finish the second degree. So I did both in four years.
[00:07:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Holy cannoli. Okay.
[00:07:54] Nile Harris: I'm a lifelong learner. I believe you need to always be learning. And the curiosity is, I think a lot of times I've gotten the feedback of, "Well, you're kind of all over the place." But not really. I am curious about what people do and how they do their jobs. And I would, when I was in strategy and development, my role was to lead the strategic planning process, and I had access to all of the business leaders, all of the presidents, all of the leaders that they worked with. And that was just awesome. That in itself was just a college education. I had ready access to ask them about their businesses.
But I also asked him, "Well, how can I be a better partner for you? If I'm in corporate, how can I be a better partner for you?" And one of the things that came up over and over again was, "Understand my business better. I understand that you have to run the process and you're focused on getting all of the parts and pieces together. But what would help me is if more people in corporate understood my business." And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to go into sales."
[00:09:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Wow, that is so incredible. And, leadership and management, and now with your executive coaching, obviously that's a been a running theme and will continue to be. And I'm really curious what is maybe your top couple pieces of advice for those who are looking to either become better leaders or to even start being a leader?
[00:09:32] Nile Harris: That is a great question. I think, first of all, I counsel people to develop your personal leadership philosophy. What type of leader do you want to be? What is the legacy that you want to leave with people? What is it that you want them to remember you for? For me, it was being a servant leader. I see myself as, "People don't work for me. I work for them." My job is to remove obstacles, build them up, set a vision, set the container in which they work and then support them in that. Set the example, model the example and and I always say, you know, the book "Leaders Eat Last." Well, I say, "Leaders eat last and they're the first to the fire." And so you develop that philosophy and talk to people. Like I said, I had access to some amazing leaders and I watched them and I talked to them and I asked them and so, interview people, talk to people who you think are great leaders.
The second thing I would say is learn from people who you think are not great leaders. Let them teach you about what you don't want to be as a leader. Right? And the third thing is talk to people. I had one mentor who used to say his version of a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which was, "You can't lead without the consent of the followers. Find out what the followers need and give them that." And leadership is for the people who are following you. Promotions or accolades or rewards are for you as an effective leader, right, for getting results. The leadership is what you are providing to others.
[00:11:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. I think especially your middle point about learning from leaders that you don't look up to, but that have actually a lot to teach you is such a good point too, because, in general, we look up to the people that we go, "Oh my goodness, I love the way that this person leads. I really admire what they bring to the table." And then, that's great, but it is also such an experience to learn from somebody that doesn't have maybe the leadership qualities that you aspire to have. And so you're able to go, "Okay, so this is what doesn't work. Let me figure out what does."
[00:11:58] Nile Harris: Exactly. And even the leadership style, even if it doesn't work for you, even if it doesn't work for 95 percent of the organization that person has been put in charge of, that there's something that they do that you might like. So don't necessarily throw the baby out with the bathwater and just say, "Oh, they're a terrible leader." What they're doing something, they did something to be able to get in that, into that position. Learn from that as well.
[00:12:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Ooh, taking it a step further. I love it. You know, one thing I really enjoy-- oh, I very much enjoyed reading your LinkedIn profile, by the way-- but one thing that really stood out to me, and I would love if you could talk a little bit about was somebody at some point told you that you have an amazing ability to "seamlessly switch between strategy and tactical execution." Could you speak a little bit to that? That is so cool.
[00:12:51] Nile Harris: So this is funny. This is a very funny thing. So that was a manager who I did not get along with. We did not see eye to eye. And we had a facilitator come into our team meeting one day and help us to figure out how do we work together and collaborate as a team. Like, how do we pull out the gifts right in each other? And so the facilitator went person to person and asked, "What's your gift? What's your gift? What's your gift?" And so when he got to me, I said, "Oh, my gift is my organizational skills. I'm very organized and I can connect all these dots."
And so my manager, who I did not get along with, says, "Your gift is effortlessly going from strategy to tactical execution. You can be in the clouds and then on the ground. And it is a clear stream and it is effortless." And everybody in the room was like, "Yeah, well, where did you get organization from?" I was like, "Wait, where'd you get that from?" I didn't see that in myself. It didn't, it didn't occur to me that's what I was doing. When they pointed it out, I didn't realize it was a gift. Because I just do it. And then they were like, "Not everybody can do that." And I thought it was so odd that this person who I had sort of like this ongoing strife with was the one to point it out.
[00:14:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's irony for you, but what a gift though, because then yeah, to understand, "Oh, this isn't something..." I think that happens a lot where you get to it's really helpful to have somebody who's outside perspective who can say, "Actually, this is your superpower because most people can't do what you think just comes naturally to everyone." If only.
[00:14:51] Nile Harris: Yes. And 'cause a lot of times I actually got this question, somebody else was going through my LinkedIn profile and they were like, "Well, how did you develop that skillset?" And I told him, "You know, I didn't do it intentionally. I didn't set out to say,' I'm going to go from strategy to execution effortlessly.'" I think it was the act of doing it. So being able to say, "Well, I don't want to be in financial services, but now I have that financial skill and acumen. I'm going to leverage it to change industries." And then being in this tactical position of putting together models and PowerPoints. And I was putting together PowerPoints for like our executive committee.
So I'm this very, I'm doing something very tactical, but at a strategic level. And then to go from that to say, "Well, I want to really understand how these things connect together." All right. And so I go to sales. And so I think it was just the, I followed the trail of the curiosity and I learned something along the way by doing that. And so it ultimately, it just sort of naturally, I think cultivated what I do know that I'm really good at is seeing patterns and connecting dots. And I think it just sort of came from that.
[00:16:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think, to your point of you having demonstrated your willingness to continue to learn and to step into different roles, so that you were able to continue to expand your knowledge and your skill sets, I mean, you know, it's funny. And I know a lot of people talk about the idea of generalist versus specialist. And being a generalist does have a lot of advantages in terms of, when you have this crazy diverse skillset and even experience in multiple industries, then all of a sudden you can draw from, "Oh, you know what? I remember this really random thing back in when I was doing financial services that actually would really apply here. I don't, I wonder if anyone has ever thought about that!" And then you keep connecting those dots, like you said, so.
[00:17:03] Nile Harris: Exactly. And that's exactly how it happens in my brain. Right? Like my brain will reach back to, "Remember when you worked on this project and you did this really random thing." And I'm like, "Yeah!" My brain's like, "It applies here." I'm like, "Okay." But I did Strength Finders and one of the strengths, it was described as, I didn't necessarily agree with the word that they use, but when I read the description, in the description, it said, "I am a collector of information."
And I'm like, yes! I have every notebook that I used to take notes for work. I have every notebook going back to my first job out of college. And I use Evernote to collect, literally collect articles across the internet. If I'm like, "Oh, this is interesting," I'll clip it into Evernote. And so now I've got sort of this encyclopedia of information. And so if I want to, think about, "Oh, I read this article about this medtech company that was doing this thing," I can search my little encyclopedia and find out. So that also is the whole connecting the dots. And Steve Jobs had a, and I'm going to butcher the quote, but he had a quote about "being innovative and being creative is about having enough experiences that you can connect."
[00:18:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Oh my goodness. Yes. I cannot agree more, and I think the ability to be creative does often come from being able to draw from lots and lots of different sources and then putting them together in a new way. So, oh my gosh, I love this So, you know another thing that stood out in your profile was, you have a wonderful ability to "plan meticulously and then adapt rapidly," and obviously your career path has really demonstrated that but I'm wondering is that in particular a skill set that you developed over time, or have you always had a tendency towards very careful planning, but at the same time holding those plans loosely enough that you can adapt quickly?
[00:19:21] Nile Harris: Yeah, there's a little bit of both. It's inherent in me to want to plan, want to know where things are. That just gives me a sense of comfort. I did not always adapt rapidly. That was working in the strategy and corporate development, working with a bunch of C suite, the CEO, the COO, the presidents of all the businesses, adapting rapidly was a requirement. And things would change super fast. The meeting might start off about one topic and then it ends on a totally different topic. So having to pivot, having to go. But then that also helped me with, "Okay, I'm going to have a plan a and plan B and a plan C," because then I started to learn how to anticipate and I would know, "Okay, if we're going to go through this particular presentation, which is about this piece of the strategic plan, it could go one of three ways. And I want to be prepared for all three ways." And so over time, I became known for my ability to pivot real quick or have something in my back pocket. So people would always then be like, "Oh, Nile, we know that you have a plan B. We know that."
And we were doing a sales meeting. I worked under the president of the cardiovascular business, and we were doing a sales meeting and his video or presentation clip, whatever was on this sort of --this was a long time ago. So it wasn't transferred digitally. It had to physically be burned onto a tape or a CD or some medium. And I had to physically transport it with me from Minneapolis to Las Vegas, where the meeting was. And I said, " Could you make another one so I have a backup?" And the guy was like, "Come on." And I was like, "Nope." So I gave the first copy to the person I was supposed to hand it off to. Get to Las Vegas, and they called me over to the hall for rehearsal. And they're like, "Hey, we can't find the first copy." And I was like, "No worries." I pull out the second copy out of my little bag. And the president of the business was like, "Yep, that's Nile." And they were sitting there and they said, "Yeah, the president, he wasn't worried at all. Like we were freaking out and he was like, 'Nah, just call Nile.'"
[00:21:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh.
[00:21:37] Nile Harris: And they were like, "Wow." And he was like, "I told you." And so then being in sales is nothing but adapting rapidly. That is what, that is all day, every day. So that adapting rapidly was, it was taught. But I think being planful was my natural inclination.
[00:21:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, what a great reputation, too, to have. "Just call Nile. It'll be great. It'll be fine."
[00:22:03] Nile Harris: "It'll be fine. Nile's got covered."
[00:22:05] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. So what are you really looking forward to maybe both personally and professionally in the next couple of years?
[00:22:15] Nile Harris: Now that I'm in a bigger management consulting firm not doing the independent piece, but I'm part of this bigger entity, there is so much happening in medtech and medical device and life science in general, with generative AI, health care equities, just so much happening. And I think that we are reaching a really a big pivot point also with like digital health care and collecting data and on patient care, predictive medicine. We are at this next evolution of care, and I'm really excited to help usher that in by working with other, with companies, with innovators in this space. The AI with imaging and streamlining workflows and helping to close healthcare disparity gaps, to be able to contribute to that in a much deeper way that you can't when you are a independent consultant.
The other piece is, I really love helping to build those high performing teams. And I, there's like with coaching, I love that aha moment, that moment when somebody is like, "Oh, wow." That moment I had when my manager said my gift is going from strategy to execution. I love helping other people have that moment. So I'm looking to help build that next level of leaders that will be better leaders than I am, better leaders than I had. And then that the next stage for me is how do I again, take everything I've learned and pay that forward. , leave a legacy.
That's, and I might be talking about like, it might seem like I feel like I'm old because in two years I'm still going to be working. I'm still going to be doing things, but that's when I feel you start to get into the part of your career where you're leaving that mark, you're leaving that legacy. That's the thing that we want to know Nile for in the medtech space. And then really also outside of work, more personally is, I feel very strongly about the health, wealth and education disparity gap and America and being able to contribute to health and equity where we have two demographics of people who get a disease at the same, same rate, but they don't have the same outcomes, the same treatment outcomes. Like, why is that? So how can I contribute to that?
[00:24:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are all wonderful things to be thinking about and working towards. So yeah, I really appreciate just-- you talked about how you are a servant leader, but you just have such a beautiful heart of service. And I mean, I could see that throughout even your volunteering and your mentorship and things that you do. So, gosh, yeah. Thank you for sharing about that.
[00:25:21] Nile Harris: Yeah.
[00:25:21] Lindsey Dinneen: So I'm curious. Along this journey, especially in medtech, have there been any moments that stand out to you as really clarifying to you, "Wow, I am in the right place, at the right time, in the right industry?"
[00:25:36] Nile Harris: Oh, oh. There is a moment where I almost quit and it was when I was in sales. And again, it was a hybrid sales marketing role, but I was, it was doing my field training and I'm so excited to be out there. And I, you know, completely committed to the mission and we help people in these devices. They go in people and they restore health and they do all of these things and these things are great. And I was, In the hospital one day with one of my training reps, and we got a call to the E. R. There was a patient in there with a ruptured aneurysm, aortic aneurysm, and he was, I don't know, in his eighties, mid eighties.
And we looked at the film to see if the device, the stent graft, it's minimally invasive. The other way you repair an aortic aneurysm is to open somebody all of the way up and take out their aorta and put in a different type of graft. And when we looked at the film, this was a ruptured something like a 10 centimeter aneurysm. And this patient was actively bleeding out. And the rep asked me, " What do you see?" And that's what I said I saw. And she said, "Well, okay, so what are we going to do?" And I'm like going through my training, flipping through my training and everything in my training said, "There's nothing that we can do for this patient." And so I say it to her and she was like, "Correct." And so essentially once you've ruptured to this point, they were just making him comfortable at this point and he was going to expire.
And I conceptually understood that people pass away. We can't save everybody, but to have to sit there in that moment and look at looking at this film and you are dealing with a human, is a human being on the table and you are saying it's "Wow. This is the moment where you can't do anything." So we left there and I just went back to my hotel and I was like, " This is stupid. Like, why am I doing this?" And my manager called me and I told him, I was like, "You know what? I don't think I'm cut out for this. I can't do this. I can't not save people. I got into this to save people." And he said, "If you had any other reaction, I would be worried about you." He's like, " Give it 48 hours and call me back." So I gave it 48 hours. I called him back and I was like, " No, I'm supposed to be here. I'm in the right place. I love this work. I love what I do. I would not have been so upset if I didn't. If I didn't love what I do, if I wasn't in the right place, I would not have been so upset. So that was to me was a defining moment of that's why I love this work."
[00:28:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. What a powerful story. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:28:46] Nile Harris: Yeah. You're welcome.
[00:28:47] Lindsey Dinneen: You know, I really appreciate-- that's such a human moment to have. And of course we all have them, but we don't always talk about them because it doesn't always feel good, but that is so powerful that you were able to take what, it was such a difficult moment but use it as a little bit of motivation for your why as well. Wow. Yeah, that is amazing. Thank you.
[00:29:09] Nile Harris: Yeah. And yeah, you're welcome. And I had two primary trainers in Tennessee. They were like in different parts of Tennessee, and the primary trainer told me when I, first day of training, he said, "If you always do what's right for the patient, everything else will come.
[00:29:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, there you go. That's "great.
[00:29:27] Nile Harris: Yep.
[00:29:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:29:44] Nile Harris: Oh, this is such a great question. I don't know how I would do it. But I would teach people how to, how do I put this? I would teach people how to go from like strategy to execution but in a, I think maybe in a broader way, I would teach people like how to connect thoughts or how to be curious or how to always be learning. I don't know exactly how I would do it, but I would teach people to be explorers their life.
[00:30:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Oh, I love that so much. Yes, amazing. Yeah, well, whenever you put that together, let me know because that sounds incredible.
[00:30:24] Nile Harris: Yeah. I mean, I just wrote it, like I wrote it down, right? Like, I like, that's what I would do. I would teach people to be explorers, because then if you teach people to be explorers of their own life and curious about their own life, they're going to end up where they're supposed to end up eventually, right? So whether it's medtech or whether it's this or that, like you're going to end up where you should be because you've been curious about your life. And, yeah, that's what I teach.
[00:30:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love it. And also, I think the benefit of the explorer mindset is that you are, because you are choosing to view life as an adventure and you're constantly learning and growing, there really isn't such a thing as failure. You're exploring. So if something doesn't go the way that you hoped it would or planned it would or whatever, you go, "Okay, that exploration didn't go as planned. What did I learn from it though?" And then let's move forward.
[00:31:21] Nile Harris: Yeah, that's exactly how I look at it. Somebody asked me If I have a fear of failure, and I said, "I don't." And they're like, "That's crazy. Everybody has a fear of failure." And I was like, "No, because I tried something didn't work out. And now I know." Right? Or, "I didn't do it the right way. Now I know the right way, you know?" So I was like, "I don't have a fear of failure. I have a fear of doing things badly, not performing well." But failure? No, it's all exploration, it's all learning."
[00:31:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Ah, perfect mindset. I love it. So, and then you touched a little bit on this, but just to dive a little bit more into it, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:32:01] Nile Harris: As a servant. Yeah, I, that's a, yeah, I don't think there's more... I want people to remember that I contributed, that I gave more than I got, that I helped others, and I'll be happy with that.
[00:32:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:32:32] Nile Harris: Dogs! Dogs!
[00:32:36] Lindsey Dinneen: The end.
[00:32:37] Nile Harris: The end! See him on the street? Smile. Go to the dog park? Smile. Look at my own dog? Smile. Dogs are our partners in life. They are like four legged dopamine molecules. They are just amazing. And, they're always such a good energy boost, mood boost. Somebody asked me this, " If you quit MedTech tomorrow, what would you go do?" And I'm like, "I would open a doggy daycare."
[00:33:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. I love it. Yeah, they're just little bundles of joy. I mean, how can you not just be so excited to see... Well, I view it that way. How could you just not fall in love? I fall in love all the time with dogs.
[00:33:17] Nile Harris: Yeah, the dogs are amazing, I always feel like they make a family complete. I love, and you specifically said "see," so when I see dogs, but I think what gives me energy, I'm kind of, I'm kind of adding a part B to this. I think what personally gives me energy is being around my family. I come from a really big family. And so being able to share that family energy is energizing. But when I see a dog, I'm insta happy.
[00:33:46] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. And I love your part B too. That's a really compelling secondary answer too. So yeah. Thank you for that. So, yeah. Well, Nile, this conversation has been amazing. You are amazing. You're such a powerhouse, and it's, it's such a joy to get to talk with you today and learn from you. So thank you so, so, so much for your time. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Opportunity International, which works to end global poverty by creating and sustaining jobs while also providing small business loans, savings, insurance, and training to more than 14 million people in the developing world. So thank you so much for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:34:40] Nile Harris: Thank you so much. I enjoyed our conversation. This was so much fun. Thank you for the invitation.
[00:34:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. And thank you so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:35:01] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dr. Jay Anders | Chief Medical Officer, Medicomp Systems | Enhancing Healthcare IT, EHR Usability, & Being Mission Driven

Dr. Jay Anders, Chief Medical Officer of Medicomp Systems, shares his career transition from an internist to a leader in healthcare IT, emphasizing the importance of usable technology for clinicians. He discusses Medicomp's mission to enhance clinicians' efficiency and patient care through advanced tools. Dr. Anders also explores the challenges of incorporating AI in healthcare, the disparity of healthcare access in rural areas, and the rewarding experience of international medical missions. He highlights the importance of change management in reducing physician burnout and aims to teach coping mechanisms for managing constant healthcare changes.
 
Guest links: www.medicomp.com | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayandersmd/
Charity supported: Feeding America
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 042 - Dr. Jay Anders
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Dr. Jay Anders. As Chief Medical Officer of Medicomp Systems, Dr. Anders supports product development, serving as a representative and voice for the physician and healthcare community. He is a fervent advocate for finding ways to make technology an enabler for clinicians rather than a hindrance. Dr. Anders spearheads Medicomp's knowledge based team and clinical advisory board, working closely with doctors and nurses to ensure that all Medicomp products are developed based on user needs and preferences to enhance usability. As the host of a popular, award winning Healthcare NOW radio podcast, "Tell Me Where IT Hurts," Dr. Anders has discussed the topics of physician burnout, EHR clinical usability, healthcare data interoperability, and the evolving role of technology in healthcare with a variety of industry experts and pundits.
Well, hello, Jay. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited you're here.
[00:01:53] Jay Anders: I'm very glad to be here.
[00:01:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by telling us just a little bit about who you are and your background and maybe what led you into MedTech.
[00:02:06] Jay Anders: Well, I am an internist by training, and after practicing medicine in a large multi specialty group practice for almost 20 years, I decided to have a little career shift, and the reason I shifted careers was I had a little computer science background, so I said, "Let's see if we can put that to work." And about that time is 2004, I'll date myself. We started getting into electronic health records, and when they first started to come out, they were just these read only, do nothings, electronic versions of paper. And I thought, "Well, this is not going to work out really well. Let's see what we can do about that." So my big clinic decided we'd be one of the first to hop in the pool.
So we did with a company called Integrate. And when we got that all installed and rolled out and everybody using it, they came to me and said, we really need a physician to really help lead what do physicians want or need in healthcare IT. So I said, "Well, we'll just part time." Well, that lasted about six months. And I said, "I can't be in two places at once. I can't practice full time medicine and do this at the same time."
So I switched careers and one of the biggest questions I get asked all the time is "Why in the world you do that?" I mean, I saw, you know, five, six thousand patients a year, big practice. And they said, "Why'd you get out of practice?" And I said, "Well, think about it for a minute. So I can see those five or six thousand patients and affect their lives and help their health get better, or in this industry, I can make the lives of hundreds of thousands of patients better. And not only them, the providers that actually take care of them."
So to make a really long pathway short, that company got purchased by another company, which got purchased by a company, probably everybody knows called McKesson. And I worked in the big corporate medicine world for a while. I got kind of tired of that. And I wound up with working with Medicomp. We use some of their products and the Integrate product that we had. So I've known him for quite some time and he always told me, he said, "When you're ready to make a change, let me know." So I was ready to make a change and I joined Medicomp. It's now been 11 years working at that particular organization. Love it. It's great. And it's got the right mission. So I was looking for where can I really make a difference? And this company really makes a difference.
[00:04:36] Lindsey Dinneen: That's incredible. Thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. And I'd really love to dive into exactly what you ended with because I think that mission is such a key aspect of maybe a lot of things, and probably opinions vary, but I have found that it is really helpful to have something that drives you so that on the difficult days you go, "Yes, but I am here for this reason." So I'm curious, can you expand a little bit about your current company and how it is so missionally driven?
[00:05:08] Jay Anders: Well, Medicomp has a single purpose that has multi facts blended into it. How can I say that a little bit better? It's just, it's got a lot of tentacles, but it does one thing. It was started to actually assist the providers at the point of care to actually take care of their patients. It started out 46 years ago. We're one of the oldest healthcare IT companies out there. We're older than Epic. I love to say that. So we started out to how do you really assist clinicians to, to do what they do. And through multiple iterations and years of development and things like that, we have come up with a set of tools that I think really puts the joy back in the practice of medicine for the providers that have to do it. It also has a mechanism to get the patients involved. So my goal when I first started this is, when I first started looking at electronic health records, I said, "This is not going to work," like I said before. And that's what we're doing now. We're making it work. And it's interesting to see the acceptance or push back, however you want to talk about it. But we have but one mission: is to make the lives of the clinicians that use electronic healthcare work for them.
[00:06:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. My mind immediately goes to perhaps some of the challenges that the company faces with these electronic records, things like cybersecurity and HIPAA. And I'm so curious to know how you have been able to navigate that and adapt and evolve because, oh dear, those are hot topics.
[00:06:51] Jay Anders: Well, yeah, in healthcare, it's probably one of the most regulated things on the planet at least in the United States. And it just got a little bit more complex because the Office of the National Coordinator keeps rolling out more regulations which we have to comply with. It's interesting how Some of these regulations have morphed throughout the process. I'll take HIPAA as an example. You brought it up. The privacy act had a very simple mission is to protect people's medical records from being shared with the wrong people. It went completely over the falls, meaning you can't share anything. And it's really tough to get permissions and all of that.
One of the problems we've had that my company helps solve because we're in the exchange information business is being able to share that medical information when it's needed and where it's needed and in a format that's usable. So when people say, "I don't want my medical record shared," it's interesting because if you really ask patients, they say, "Oh yeah, if my doctor who is in the next town needs what I have, wrong with me, send it. I don't want to have to fill it out again."
And one of the biggest bugaboos that I've seen with patients, including myself, is that every time you go to the doctor now, they ask you the same set of questions over and over again. Has that information changed? Probably not all that much. So it spends a lot of time going through machinations of making sure everything is okay and shareable and all of that. I have noticed that lately things are starting to loosen up a little bit along those lines. So people are not so scared that their information is going to get in the right hands or wrong hands, needs to be in the right hands. So I see that kind of fading in, in the United States.
And what's interesting is our company is international. So we have installations in Thailand and Indonesia and other places. And over there, there's no problem with sharing information, which is a big plus when it comes to really taking care of patients, and that's why we're in this business as a clinician, either on the healthcare IT side like I am now or on the other side before. It's all about taking care of the patient.
[00:09:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and it's cool to think how you have been one of the first providers of such a service because that must have been, I feel like a barrier of entry would have been challenging. What kind of pain points did you have to solve for, especially clinicians who might have been hesitant to adopt the technology?
[00:09:31] Jay Anders: Good question. One of the biggest challenges was the breadth of medicine itself. If you think about all the different conditions that a human can have, you have to have support for all of it. Well, getting to the all of it has taken 46 years. So it's not as if it happened yesterday. So the challenge was actually making it work every time, all the time, for the breadth of medicine. Now, one of the things about physicians especially, nursing not so much, but physicians particularly. We all know that we know everything on the planet and we are the absolute arbiter of everything you have as a patient, and we don't need any help at all. We can handle it.
We're trained that way, which is really not true. Even in the old days, I would dismiss myself from a patient's room because I knew I had to go look something up. My knowledge is a little diminished in that area, so I have to go look it up. Well now, medicine's expanded so much that there's no way on the earth you can keep track of it all in your head. So, what can keep track of vast amounts of information, both patient information as well as medical information, pretty easily? A computer! So how can we make that computer act and think like a clinician. And that's what we've done at Medicomp. We've actually done that process.
So when you walk in with diabetes or whatever condition, I can give you on a screen everything you need to ask and answer about that particular condition and make it easy for you to take care of that patient and document what you need to document and get all the information you need and sort it out. So computers can do that. It's gotten better through time, and now we have the world of AI we have to deal with in healthcare, which is also a little scary, but it does have a great potential.
[00:11:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and to that point, to explore it a little further, what is your opinion of incorporating it? How do you feel that the safety or ethical implications of it, I think there's always a lot of great uses for AI, but I'm curious about how do you feel that maybe it would be best utilized for situations like yours or for companies like yours?
[00:11:57] Jay Anders: Well, AI is nothing more than a large program that's trying to predict what the next word will be in any given text. That's what it does, basically, down to the ground. The issues with AI is it's not trained as a clinician. You can read it every medical text on the planet, but it still does not really think like a physician thinks. So, along those lines, it's a great augmentation, easy retrieval of data, easy refreshing your memory about something if it's a little esoteric. It's great at that. It's also great at picking up synonymy, which is picking up every different medical term that you try to use in a particular situation. It can do that very well.
The issue is it's not trained medically and it really doesn't have the intuition of a well trained physician So I'll tell you a little bit about myself again. When I started as an intern, I had a white coat with every conceivable little pocket manual I could stuff in it, including my stethoscope and tongue depressors and lights and things like that. I passed all my boards. I knew medical text. I knew all that. But it came down, I have to take care of patients now. A little different. And the experience that I developed over 20 years of doing that is something that you really can't stick into a computer. So, I think AI is going to be great about summarizing different sets of information, filtering it, presenting it, doing things like that. I don't think it's going to be used a whole lot to actually diagnose patients. I've seen people try to do that. It scares me a little bit.
The other issue is, who's responsible? If a computer makes a diagnosis, who in the world is responsible? It's not the computer, it didn't care less. It's not the programmer who programmed the computer because they didn't know anything about what you were doing. So who's going to be responsible? So there's that one one step. So it can take you so far. It can really help you to get there, but you have to take the training the intuition, all of the knowledge over time, and apply it. So I think it's going to be a good augmentation, not ever a replacement. I just don't see that happening, at least in my lifetime.
[00:14:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, we'll see where it goes, but I, yes, that, that makes a lot of sense, and it's a great tool. I think that's a good way of thinking about it, not as a replacement, but just add it to your arsenal, so to speak, and yeah. Now you are a fellow podcaster and I would love if you would share a little bit about your podcast and how that all came about.
[00:14:50] Jay Anders: Well, it's been, oh, it's been three years now. Wow. We were thinking about other ways that we could get the word out about what we do as a company, because my podcast is sponsored by the company I work for. But I also have a little bit of thespian in me. I was in plays in college and high school and all that nonsense. That kind of thing really didn't bother me. He says, "Well, let's give it a shot. What would it be like?" And he said, "Okay." So we had our first guest, second guest, things are kind of coming along. You get into a flow, really enjoy doing it, and the conversations are so stimulating. And then I had my conversation with Mickey Tripathi, who's the National Coordinator of Healthcare IT, and I wound up winning a Power Press Award for that particular interview.
[00:15:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Congrats.
[00:15:40] Jay Anders: It's been a lot of fun. It's engaging. And the feedback I get from it is that they like the conversation. Everybody likes to talk at you, not with you. And I've really tried to get out of that mode of just talking at somebody, but let's have a conversation about a topic. And I've learned a lot. I hope my listeners have learned a lot and it's been a great deal of fun.
[00:16:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, that's great. And I also recognize that you are a featured speaker on healthcare IT. And was that, well, you said you have this background in theater. So was public speaking something that came easily to you? Was it something you developed over time?
[00:16:28] Jay Anders: It came pretty easily to me, I think. One of the things I did back three companies ago is I got to introduce a keynote speaker and talk about a keynote speaker in front of an M. G. M. A. Conference, and there had to be 6000 people in that audience. It was huge. But I walked out there and I said, "Okay, they're gonna listen to what I'm gonna have to say, and that's gonna be it. It's not gonna affect me." And it was a lot of fun, too. But so big crowds like that, it really doesn't affect me if I'm well prepped. If I'm passionate about talking about, it kind of rolls out of me naturally. So I don't have any problem with it. It's a lot of fun as well.
[00:17:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Yeah. Yeah. Just another opportunity to continue spreading that message. You know, I very much enjoyed looking at your LinkedIn profile and learning a little bit about you. And I wondered if you could share a little bit about, I saw that you do or have done in the past, some medical mission work to various countries. I would love if you would share a little bit about that and your heart for that.
[00:17:38] Jay Anders: Well, in the past, I've not done it a lot recently, but I have taken several trips to Asia with a medical team and it had to be one of the most rewarding things I think I've ever done. And we were in the country of Kazakhstan, and we were seeing people who really don't have access to healthcare. And what healthcare they have over there was really not all that good. But we went over with a team of five. Had a physical therapist, a nurse, and probably 15 bags full of medications of which all went through customs without a hitch, which I was very surprised. But I got up in the morning, got there right at daybreak, and I would see 250 people a day and work till the sun went down. And there were still people to see. They were so appreciative of any kind of information, any kind of healthcare, any way you could help them.
All done just, it was, like I said, one of the most rewarding things that I think I've ever done. And one of the best parts about that trip is I went and went to an orphanage that had, the kids needed health screenings. And there were about 200 kids. So we started early in the morning and I saw child after child after child after child ' till we finally got through the whole thing. And at the end of the day, it's now hanging in our kitchen. One of the little boys came up and said, "I want to give this to you, doctor." And it was a wooden plaque of an, with an urt on it, a camel and a little star. And in that part of the world, that's how they live is these urts, these very unique, tent like structures.
And I just broke down. I couldn't, I, it was one of those things where that is going to me, to the nursing home because of that experience. But I highly recommend if anybody in healthcare and I'm not part of Doctors Without Borders, but I support them. If you have a chance to do that, do it. And you can do it as a non medical person because you always need support people. So if you think you want to do it, get yourself involved. It's great to do. It's massively rewarding and an experience that will last you a lifetime.
[00:19:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, life changing. Yeah. Thank you for sharing about that. I thought that was really neat to see that's something that you've done in the past and you're passionate about. And speaking of passions, I know kind of a similar thing, but I think perhaps even in the US, this is something that you advocate for is, something that seems to bother you is the disparity of access to healthcare in more rural settings. And this is something that I feel like, on occasion, maybe some Americans don't realize that even in the United States, there is this disparity. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and your passion for that.
[00:20:37] Jay Anders: Oh, absolutely. I grew up in a town of 20, 000 in the middle of Illinois. And I'll just give you a little progression. So in the town I grew up in, when I was a little boy at six, seven, we had two hospitals, nice size hospitals in that community. Roll ahead to 2024. One is a derelict building that looks horrifying. It's about to fall down. The other has merged with a larger system, which is about 40 miles away. It's coned down in size. They still do a lot of work there, but it's a lot of the major cases get shipped out to the mothership, which is in an adjacent city.
But this plays out across rural areas all over the country. Hospitals are closing, they're under pressure, both cost of care as well as reimbursement for that care. Specialists in certain areas are very hard to come by. And when you look about the delivery of care, this is one of the things that bothers me the most. The people who get better in the hospital the quickest are the people who have support groups around them. They have parents, they have children, somebody to come and visit them and be with them, give them a reason to get better.
When you move some of these rural hospitals and put them out of business or reduce them to the point they're just an aid station and you ship that patient to a medical center that's 50, 100 miles away, that support group goes away. It's very hard for that to even exist. So if you take into consideration the lack of real reimbursement at that level, at those types of hospitals, the lack of specialty care, which is still needed, and really the lack of primary care, things are headed downhill with that as well. It really is a disparate way of delivering healthcare in the United States. Not everybody can go to a Cleveland Clinic or a Mayo to get their healthcare.
I live here in Western Pennsylvania. We have two massive institutions, both of which are wonderful, but not everybody can come here. People that are out in the Northern Pennsylvania, in the middle of the state, they got to travel because their hospitals are closing. And that I think is a travesty of the system. It's something that needs governmental intervention and it needs intervention in several different modes, meaning increased reimbursement, training physicians that want to practice in that type of environment. There are programs out there that are to start to do that, but it needs attention because people out there are not getting the same healthcare as I can get 15 miles up the road in the city of Pittsburgh.
[00:23:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing a little bit about that, and even some suggestions for ways that this can be helped. I know it's a long road, but I appreciate that you are bringing light to it and helping to start those conversations that will hopefully lead to change down the road. So.
[00:23:49] Jay Anders: And technology does have a place to play in doing that as well. Telehealth, distance, ICUs, things like that. There are ways that technology can augment that medical care, but it's expensive. There has to be some type of support for it, both at the state and federal levels.
[00:24:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So I'm curious on your path and your journey so far, and obviously you've had a really interesting career path 'cause you've done a few different things over your career and you continue to, I'm sure, learn and grow. But are there any moments that stand out to you as really affirming that, "You know what, I am in the right industry at the right time, at the right time? I'm doing what I was meant to do."
[00:24:36] Jay Anders: Boy, that's a great question. One of the things that really drew me to working at the company I'm working at now at Medicomp was the fact that they truly had the physicians and the providers of healthcare's best interest in mind. Foremost, everything we do, and I mean, everything we do, is geared to make their lives better, more effective, and deliver better care. That's what we do.
So in my pathway, which came kind of went around in different ways and different companies, different sizes through acquisition and other things, I really wound up in a place where we're not a large company, but we're all of one mind. And that is an absolutely fabulous place to work when you're all pulling the rope in the same direction. And it's all for a great purpose. And when I have providers come up and tell me, "Well, we installed this or we're using this, and it really did help what I'm doing." I had nurses come up to me and at one of our installations that say, "I've got 50 percent more time to spend with my patients. I'm not spending it in an inefficient electronic health record. That's been fixed." And when people say that it's like, "Okay, I'm in the right place at the right time."
[00:26:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's incredible. What great testimonies too. Oh my word. Thank you for sharing that. So pivoting the conversation just for fun. Imagine that you were to be offered the opportunity to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. And you'll get a million dollars for it. What would you choose to teach?
[00:26:30] Jay Anders: I would teach physicians and other clinicians change management theory and how to manage change. That's what I would teach. I've had the luxury in my career of having a professional coach for two years, professional training and leadership. It's been a great thing to have, but not everybody has that. I would love to be able to teach clinicians how they can manage all the change that comes at them every day. It's patience, it's technology, it's knowledge base, all of that. It's changing all the time. You got to have a method. You got to have some skills. You got to have some coping mechanisms to go through that. It can't overwhelm you every time you go to work. And I think that's part of our burnout problem is that there's the skill set of managing change just isn't there to the degree it ought to. And physicians throw their hands up. I'm going, "I'm retiring. I'm going somewhere. I can't do this anymore." And I think that's wrong. So, that's what I do. I would teach coping skills around change in healthcare.
[00:27:46] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Excellent. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:27:53] Jay Anders: I want to be remembered as somebody who made a difference. You know, a lot of people get into the healthcare IT business because they want to revolutionize this or revolutionize that. I don't want to revolutionize anything. I want to make a difference. And if I can make a difference, I've pretty much done what I went into this profession to do was make a difference with patients, make a difference in my colleagues, and in the industry I'm in now. That's what I want to be remembered as.
[00:28:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And then, final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:28:33] Jay Anders: I'm going to go back to my story in Kazakhstan. Every time I think of that little boy coming up, grabbing my coat, jerking on it, to hand me that little plaque, that gives me a smile every time I think about it. It actually gives my wife a smile, too. Because we'll look up at that plaque in the kitchen and go, "I know where that came from. That was a good time." That makes me smile almost every time.
[00:28:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. What a powerful memory and just such great motivation, something to come back to on the difficult days and then you look at that and go, "Yeah. Okay. I can make a difference here. I did make a difference here."
[00:29:14] Jay Anders: I did.
[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that so much. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I am so grateful to you for spending some time with me and just telling me about your background and the amazing work that you're doing, that your company is doing. And we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Feeding America, which works to end hunger in the United States by partnering with food banks, food pantries, and local food programs to bring food to people facing hunger, and they also advocate for policies that create long term solutions to hunger. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the best continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:30:00] Jay Anders: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[00:30:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And thank you also so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:30:16] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Hannah Went | Co-Founder, TruDiagnostic | Pioneering Epigenetics, Transforming Healthcare, & Making Science Accessible

Hannah Went, a pioneer in epigenetics, is the co-founder of TruDiagnostic and founder of Everything Epigentics. She shares her journey from the early days of TruDiagnostic to its burgeoning role in healthcare. She reflects on the rapid evolution of epigenetics, the challenges of making groundbreaking science accessible, and the gratifying shift towards mainstream acceptance. Hannah also delves into her personal growth, emphasizing the transformative impact of "The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership" and her desire to be remembered as loving and impactful. 
Guest links: trudiagnostic.com | everythingepigenetics.com
Charity supported: Equal Justice Initiative
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 041 - Hannah Went
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Hannah Went. Hannah has a lifelong passion for longevity and breakthrough disruptive technologies that drive radical improvement to the human condition. She attended the University of Kentucky and graduated with a degree in biology. During that time, she had multiple research internships studying cell signaling and cell biology. After graduation, she worked for the International Peptide Society as their Director of Research and Content. Through work in the integrative medicine industry, Hannah saw an opportunity for a methylation based age diagnostics and started TruDiagnostics in 2020. TruDiagnostic is a company focused on array based methylation diagnostics for life extension and preventative healthcare serving functional medicine providers. TruDiagnostic has a commitment to research with over 30 approved clinical trials investigating the epigenetic methylation changes of longevity and health interventions. Since TruDiagnostics' inception, they have created one of the world's largest private epigenetic health databases with over 75, 000 patients tested to date. Hannah has since created Everything Epigenetics, where she shares insights on how DNA regulation has an impact on your health.
All right, well, welcome to the show, Hannah. I'm so excited to talk with you today. Thanks for taking some time.
[00:02:14] Hannah Went: Thanks, Lindsey. I'm excited to speak with you.
[00:02:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, would you mind starting off by sharing a little bit about yourself and your background and what led you to MedTech?
[00:02:25] Hannah Went: Yes, absolutely. I've known since I was a little girl that I've always been interested in science, how the world works, how the body works. I remember being a little girl and going in our backyard, lifting up rocks, finding roly-polies and worms and getting all down and dirty. I was definitely a tom girl, if you will, growing up. I love sports. I loved connecting with people. So I also loved the social aspect of understanding how the body works as well. And I was very athletic growing up. So I played track soccer, basketball, sports all year round, essentially. I knew I wasn't good enough though, to go to like a D1 or probably even D2 college for sports.
So I was like, "All right, well, I'll just go to a larger university, maybe play some club soccer and really focus on my academic route." And I ended up going to University of Kentucky. It wasn't too far from me. I'm just from Ohio, north of Dayton, a small town called Piqua. And I did end up playing soccer, club soccer there, got involved in a lot of other activities. Ended up actually going into veterinary work, animal science. UK has a really good program for that. They have a really good agriculture department. I ended up shadowing a vet one summer and I hated it. It was one veterinarian clinic. So a lot of work, a lot of late hours. And I knew I wanted to have a family growing up.
So I was like, "Eh, let me just switch to general biology. Let me just open my doors." And fast forward to senior year. I was really interested in genetics and you know, how do we have these predispositions that are passed on throughout our family? How does that affect our health outcomes essentially? So I applied to genetic counseling school, which is a very new program. It's a master's program. It is where you get your master's essentially in genetics and counseling. So it's like the best of both worlds, exactly what I loved growing up. You have the science aspect, but you're sitting down and helping people actually understand their risk. Applied to school, Lindsey, and didn't end up getting in. So I was like, "Oh, I'm heartbroken. I'm still super young. My life's over!" type of deal, a big eye roll ,and thought it was the end of the world.
But really where my career took a huge turning point was at that failure point. I took a job, my best friend got me a position at a compounding pharmacy in Nicholasville, Kentucky, which is just a little bit South of Lexington. And that was when I was opened up into this entire medtech space of healthcare providers and the integrative functional medicine journey who were focusing on healthcare, like true healthcare, not sick care, not taking care of sick people when they're already sick, they're already doomed and just trying to bill them for all of these medications through insurance. So that's really how I've gotten to where I am today.
[00:05:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that is so cool. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. It was fun to even hear about your childhood and how that theme of interest in all those different aspects has woven its way through your story. And I would love to hear a little bit more then about, okay, so what does present day look like and how did you end up where you are?
[00:05:43] Hannah Went: Yes, so I'll try and keep it short and concise. So this pharmacy was very innovative. It was the fourth fastest growing healthcare company in the nation in 2019. And it's really focused on the unique peptide products. It was again a compounding pharmacy by trade, meaning you can compound anything in all different dosing as long as you have a prescription from a healthcare provider by it. They grew really fast. So, you know, we always had regulatory agencies come check in, make sure we were doing everything correctly, which we absolutely were. But there was always this worry that these products made people feel better, but there wasn't a lot of quantitative data behind it.
So we were like, "All right. Well, what can we measure in clinical trials and institution review boards to really prove to people out there, 'Hey, these are having a massive underlying biological effect on people.' They don't just feel better." We used to joke and say, "People can become tan, they can become skinny, they can increase their libido from these products, but they also actually save people's life." They stabilize insulin sensitivity. They can help people lose weight who have metabolic disease. They can mediate a lot of the effects of specific autoimmune diseases. So there are massive impacts that these products had.
And we're like, "All right, well, if you had one test, like if you could measure one thing that really relates to all of those items I just mentioned, it's aging," right? These age related diseases. So, "how do you even measure age" is the follow up question and you can do that in all sorts of different ways. But there are actually these DNA regulation markers, like these on and off switches, called your epigenetics that seems to be the best way to measure aging.
So we really started measuring and doing clinical trials with these epigenetic aging biomarkers to prove the efficacy of these products. And what we ended up doing is just selling the pharmacy in 2019. It became-- oh-- pretty boring, I guess, for lack of a better word, because there were new rules and regulations in place by regulators on what you can and cannot compound. And then you have built my company now, TruDiagnostic, from the ground up. We have our laboratory in Lexington, Kentucky, and we started out with one goal, which was essentially to offer the best age testing. And now we're doing a lot of different things. So that's what I'm really involved in now on a day to day basis.
[00:08:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And okay, so, so you embrace this entrepreneurial endeavor, which is a whole second set of-- I mean, obviously you have all the skills from your experience and your education and whatnot, but then to compound that with owning your own business and then setting up a brick and mortar, it's an actual lab and whatnot. How was that transition? Did you feel prepared for it? Did it catch you off guard? What was that like?
[00:08:38] Hannah Went: We were kind of creating TruDiagnostic behind the scene when we had the pharmacy. So like end of 2019, we were really creating it. But I do think it caught me off guard looking back where it was like, "Okay, pharmacy sold, full time TruDiagnostic. How the heck do we set up this lab at the beginning of 2020?" It was go mode. So we bought a building in Lexington. It was an old insurance building. We completely knocked out the top floor, which was offices, carpeted, not usable lab space and built the lab again, like I mentioned, from the ground up. So I joke and say, "I'm a construction worker. I was an interior designer." I was doing all of these other things. And of course I had a lot of amazing people helping me all throughout the way, but testing SOPs for standard operating procedures, creating those.
I remember the first day we were running samples in like trialing the protocol. I was here till 5am because we were thawing things and freezing things as part of the protocol and didn't even realize that was part of the step once we started to get into it. So yeah, it definitely took me off guard. And I think furthermore, we launched right before COVID 19. So it was the worst timing in history to launch. And you know, we did it anyways. And then the first year and a half, two years, it was a lot of follow up. It was a lot of cold calling. It was chasing or following up with these healthcare providers to use these kits that we sent out because we did a really nice promotion to get the product out there, but it was hard to balance because when COVID 19, this nasty pandemic, came into the U. S., you almost felt guilty asking the healthcare providers to focus on anything else, right? You're like, "That is not what you should be worrying about right now." So it was definitely hard to balance.
[00:10:23] Lindsey Dinneen: And yeah, my goodness. And honestly what resonated with me too is, you know, you're talking about, you've worn so many hats, obviously, as a business owner and setting this up. And I used to joke that, when I had a brick and mortar business and I was like, "On any given day, I'm everything from the CEO to the janitor."
[00:10:40] Hannah Went: I can relate. I can definitely relate to that. I remember we needed some kind of-- I don't even know what we need this for-- it was like some type of part that had to regulate water temperature or something like that. So a traditional thermometer wouldn't work. I remember I drove across the street to a pet store and I got something that belonged in a fish tank. And I'm like, " I don't even know if this will, will work." But I mean, we are just piecing everything together. It was like you were doing yet literally everything and anything that you could just because you wanted it to work so bad. You had that passion, that, that push. And you realized that the end goal in mind, which for us, it's really just to help our people, you know, people who are working with us, and our clients, whether that's anyone from now a healthcare provider offering our services or a researcher or academic collaboration, it's someone doing third party processing at our lab or even down to the end consumer client patient, whatever you'd like to call them that come directly to our website and do our testing.
[00:11:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Great. And that actually addresses my next question, which was going to be, so do you only work with healthcare providers? Is it a B2B enterprise? But it sounds like you also do the B2C and you can sell directly to them, to people who are interested.
[00:11:55] Hannah Went: Definitely. Yeah. When we opened, we had that one goal in mind, which is what we knew, which were our healthcare providers that we really transitioned from the pharmacy over to TruDiagnostic. So that was like our main customer at the time. And I think we completed that goal of offering the best aging diagnostic tools at the end of last year with a large study we did with Harvard.
But now what we've noticed and, of course-- we kind of got lucky in this sense, we would have never imagined where we are now-- is that epigenetics, these DNA markers, these on and off switches are really great for creating new and novel biomarkers. So you can predict almost anything with them. You can predict even how much you've smoked across your entire lifetime, how much alcohol you've consumed, your zip code based on where you live, just because of the environment you're exposed to and your behaviors in that environment.
So it's pretty crazy, obviously we, we didn't expect that and I mean it's just being really blown up and everywhere you, you look, I mean it's related to every aspect of life and of course changeable as well. So even, providers who are using this test on a patient once, they'll retest them every 6 to 12 months. And then of course people coming from our website, we just released actually a subscription model a couple days ago so people can start to retest this in more of a hands off fashion. even every three to four months if they wanted to.
[00:13:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. So when somebody does your test and they get the results, is this something that you walk them through and say, okay "Here's where things stand now. If you make these tweaks, here's how things could stand?" Or how does it work from that perspective?
[00:13:34] Hannah Went: Definitely. So just to walk you through the process, you would get your kit, we'd ship it to you, you would prick your finger. So just a little blood spot card about the size of a quarter, you ship that sample back to our lab in Lexington and we get results back to you in about two to three weeks from the time we receive it. Then you would get all these different age related reports, some of those characteristic and trait based reports I mentioned, like this smoking and alcohol. And we, we do, so we can project you out saying, "Hey, if you still stay on this trend, whether it's aging faster or aging younger, here's where you're, where you'll be in six months, 12 months."
So it may be exciting to some, it may be scary to some, depending on where they are. Regardless, it's changeable. So if anyone's listening and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to know that. I'm so scared." If you've tested your genetics, that's in my opinion, even scarier. That doesn't change, right? You know your risk, you know your predisposition. So, this can all be mitigated through lifestyle factors, through supplements, medications, procedural based therapies as well. So we do give you recommendations on the report on what to do. You can absolutely again take it by yourself, but we can always help you and connect you with a healthcare provider if you're really wanting to go on this journey.
But I always say, Lindsey, the first test is really fun. It's sexy. It's really trendy right now. But it doesn't mean much. It's just a baseline. It's telling you where you are, just like your hormones and your CBC panel, your second test is more important than your first third, more than the second fourth, more than the third. And so on and so forth.
[00:15:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yeah. And you addressed something else that I was going to ask. So when people are interested, they'd like to do it, but they have this like, "Ooh, I don't know if I really want to know," how do you help overcome that? Is it because things are changeable? Like everything can be changed?
[00:15:26] Hannah Went: Yeah. Yeah. I'll even give you to an extent, I would say most of it, right. For the purpose of this conversation, yes. There are of course some exceptions, but my grandmother, for example, passed away from Alzheimer's when I was senior in high school. Right after that happened and what started some of my interest in genetics is I went and got my genes tested. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that was awful to watch her go through. Am I doomed, right? Am I going to have that same risk?" And my results came back. Well, I have this specific snip. It's a single nucleotide polymorphism. So this specific variant on my genes that's APOE 3-4. So this means I'm at a more increased risk to have Alzheimer's, and even at a younger age as well. I would say you have an even further increased risk if you're at APOE 4/4. So I'm not the worst, but I'm the second worst, essentially, and I'm like, "Well, this obviously isn't good. But this can't be it, right? This can't be the end of this story."
And you hear a lot of people say that too, people with metabolic disease or diabetes in their family. And, they may shrug and just say, "Oh, well, you know, I can eat whatever I want, right? I don't have to work out, like I'm doomed anyways, type of thing." And we know now that's not true, right? You're no longer really the victim of your genetic predisposition that we may have thought due to these epigenetic changes or the fact that it's changeable. So there are even peer reviewed published papers that come out showing estrogen, so optimizing your hormone levels can actually reduce your risk of Alzheimer's from an epigenetic standpoint along with everything else, exercising, eating very healthy, no artificial foods, flavoring. So you're, of course, always going to have that genetic risk, but you also have all of these other types of risks and you have this epigenetic risk, which should really be the main focus, because you're in the driver's seat again. You're no longer in the passenger seat. And that's really empowering to have all of that knowledge.
[00:17:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know that the test is really important in terms of telling an individual exactly what's going on and how things can change, but in doing all this research and data collection, are there certain lifestyle things that pretty much everybody regardless should pay attention to. Is that a thing?
[00:17:45] Hannah Went: Of course, that's the multimillion dollar question and a very frequent one that we get. And the answer is, "Sure, yes and no, kind of, maybe so." And what I mean by that is you can look at all of these general population studies that come out, right? These clinical trials and look at what really moved the needle. But again, those are populational trials, so you really need to find out what works for you. I can tell you what works for me.
There is a study on this, which is why I wanted to try it first. So again, you can start to maybe trial some things based on results that are already out there, but I've tested my aging before and what I've noticed that really slows it down is caloric restriction. So it's not necessarily intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding or skipping an entire meal, it's just continual, 10 percent caloric restriction. So if you're on a 2000 caloric based diet, take out about 200 calories, which if you're eating healthier anyways, you may not even be hitting your intake of calories based on your metabolic rate and what your specific goals are. And I've noticed that helps slow down my aging.
I've also noticed that I need to do more aerobic based exercises. So things like VO2 max, increasing FEV1, we can actually quantify those on our test. So really VO2 max is your oxygen uptake, so how much oxygen you can get into the body. Your FEV1 is your forced expiratory volume, so how much oxygen you can get out in and out of your lungs. Swimmers have a really good VO2 max and FEV1. So I noticed I was doing maybe too much like weightlifting, too much HIIT type of workouts. So you can get a lot of feedback from those reports. So for me, personally, that's what works.
[00:19:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That's great. That is amazing what you can test and gain knowledge about and then make those changes based off of. So on your LinkedIn profile, something that I was really intrigued by is you are a founding member of an organization, I believe, called Opscotch. Did I get that right? Okay. And one thing that really stood out to me, and I'd love to just hear your take on the organization as a whole, but you said part of your mission is to make biohacking accessible to everyone. And I really appreciated that. And I'm curious if you would share a little bit maybe more about that.
[00:20:05] Hannah Went: Yeah. Obscotch is a really cool community. So it is really democratizing the way healthcare I think has been viewed, even healthcare, like the model where we should go towards rather than that sick care. So it's making it a lot less scary. And I know that the founders of Obscotch, Spencer Coppin and Matt Christensen, and they're amazing people. They really set up this community as a way for people to have a support system. I think it can be really scary when you're entering really optimizing your overall health, what do you do? You see all of these ads, what protein should you take? What supplements should you take? They're just everywhere. Whose supplements really match the label? There are a lot of studies that show, that they don't even have promised ingredients on the label included in the supplement itself. So it's really confusing. And then you go down these rabbit holes and after a while, you don't know what you're looking at.
So if you're part of this community, you can choose to get a Whoop and to start tracking a lot of these markers. You probably know the quote by Peter Drucker, "You can't manage what you're not measuring," so they measure a lot of things. They do the biological age testing through TruDiagnostic, and then they do some other laboratory based testing as well. So there's different levels of the membership that you can actually get depending on how involved you want to be, but they also do these monthly quarterly type of challenges. So it could be to get your Whoop fitness score above 12 for 15 days of the month. So again, it really encourages people to come together and I love that community aspect of it. They've done a really nice job. And again, are just amazing people there. They're located in Canada too.
[00:21:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, nice. Yeah. So taking ownership of your health, but within a community, which makes it a lot, well, more fun, at least.
[00:21:54] Hannah Went: Yeah. And the community is awesome. That's probably a really good group for you to even look into, Lindsey. It's a lot of founders and entrepreneurs and people who have like wild backgrounds. And they're from all over the world too. So it's not just like, oh, you have to be in Canada. They do have a lot of like local meetups in Canada, which is really cool for things like cold plunging or running or, you know, scheduling dinners or seeing like Andrew Huberman, he was in town like a couple of months ago or something. So they put together the events and they also send you even like recommended podcast or YouTube videos to watch. So it's really curated health information if you're looking to optimize your own health.
[00:22:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Amazing. Yeah. And then, so another thing that I really enjoyed reading about you and your experience is, you mentioned that you appreciate taking complex scientific ideas and translating them into narratives that resonate with the intended audience. And I love that, and I think that's really important, but I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your process in doing that, translating very technical engineering science speak into maybe what other people who aren't in that world could relate to.
[00:23:14] Hannah Went: Yeah, definitely. So I have my personal company too, called Everything Epigenetics. So this is a, something TruDiagnostic wanted to do for a while is just educate others on epigenetics and what that means because there's a lot of education lacking out there. There's not much you can find. With all things that kind of got pushed under the rug in our early days, but I was just, " Screw it. I'll just make it mine." And I set up all of the social, the website domain and didn't do much with it for the first couple of months. And I was like, "Okay, I really want to get into this." And I think I started it at the end of 2022, so almost two years, which is crazy to say.
And, I used it as a way to really keep myself honest and involved in the research. So I'm not as involved in our research on a day to day. So I work with a lot of postdocs or PhDs who have created epigenetic algorithms or interpretations. And basically, hopefully break those conversations down for people to easily understand. It's still very high science and not as applicable, so it can be tough sometimes. But my real goal is just educating those on this massive paradigm shift we're seeing with epigenetics in terms of not only taking over traditional lab testing, but just medicine in general. I mean, it's causing a massive wave and really, I think, flipping our understanding of how this field works, how even really the body works.
So I don't monetize that at all. It's just something I do on the side. I have a podcast that runs every other week. And then I also am pretty active on Instagram doing these Journal Club Friday kind of spiels. That's where it's usually a video that's anywhere, I think, they're at least 90 seconds, but 90 seconds to four minutes long, just highlighting some type of research paper in the space and trying to do it in really simple terms that way people can understand it.
So it's not maybe always going to be applicable to everyday life. I think it's absolutely going to get there where we are able to measure epigenetics, see our exact plan, have everything served us on a silver platter. But we're a little bit far away from that now. And I think that's can be really frustrating to some people, but I think it's also as equally as exciting. And you have to keep in mind that this came out after the iPhone, after the first iPhone. So it only came out about, or I would say only became popularized about 10 years ago, which is very new. So we just have to be a little bit patient.
[00:25:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's fair. Well, thank you for helping translate some of these crazy things into more digestible pieces of information for those of us who maybe don't have that same background. So I do appreciate that.
[00:26:05] Hannah Went: Yeah, of course. It's really fun to just continue the conversation and start to break these complex ideas down.
[00:26:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, within your journey you know, as a scientist and researcher and entrepreneur and everything else, are there any moments that stand out to you that, that really affirm to you that you were in the right place at the right time in the right industry?
[00:26:34] Hannah Went: Ooh, that's a good question. I, I think yeah, I think probably a couple months ago, three months ago. So, we've actually joined with some other clinics on really pushing forward epigenetics. And I think we're starting to see everything coming together. So I think it is hopefully becoming mainstream. And that is just huge, because the vision for epigenetic testing is to be able to use one blood spot card, so really simple, easy collection method at a really cheap cost and getting every single biomarker back that you could possibly imagine: clinical lab values, hormones, inflammatory markers, vitamin levels, minerals, proteins, metabolites.
And I think, I remember just a couple months ago, when we really started to get an increased volume and testing, more healthcare providers just saying yes and super open to this idea. So I usually spend my day to day on calls with healthcare providers or our partnerships that we have with, whether it be wholesale or like resellers of these kits. And people are just starting to get it more. Like I remember at the beginning of TruDiagnostic, we always had to set up a call with every single account. It was, Hey, start from the top. What is epigenetics? Even before epigenetics, what is aging? How do you measure this? This is a really weird idea.
And now we're starting to see where people set up accounts with us and they don't even set up a call and they just start ordering, right? Or they set up a call and they're like, "Hey, I know what aging is. I know what epigenetics is. Help me market this to my patients. How do I sell this?" So, so we're starting to see that change and that's definitely not been overnight. To answer your question, right time, right room with the right people. But I think probably at the beginning of this year is when we started to really see that change, which has been super exciting.
[00:28:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is. It is because it's hard to-- it's great to educate-- but it is hard when that is your entire job day in and day out. And eventually maybe the science will catch up or the understanding of the science will catch up so that you finally get to this, you know, "we're getting there" stage.
[00:28:54] Hannah Went: I think it's hard, yeah, because you know, with us we speak with the healthcare providers. We speak with the academics, but we may not actually be seeing the end user, the end patient. So sometimes it can be hard. It's like, "Hey, what difference are we actually making?" And that can be a little bit of a pain point or a struggle. I think not so much anymore because our providers will come back and give us case studies or, you know, talk to us about some of their findings, which is really exciting. And that, continues to expand as we do these clinical trials and dive deeper into the research.
But I think we're TruDiagnostics sits right now is just an awesome opportunity because we are in between collaborators in terms of universities and academics and healthcare providers and patients. So we really bridge that gap as new algorithms, as new research is happening. We really do feel like we're at the centerfold and it's our responsibility to push that out to healthcare providers because there's no one really there to merge the two. So we'll start to see our type of healthcare providers we work with are willing to try anything, and willing to want the newest, latest, and greatest information as well to test on their patients. So they make for a really great group.
[00:30:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's incredible. And it's so great to hear about the ability to bridge the gap between an individual being able to take ownership of their own health versus-- doctors are amazing. I'm so thankful for every medical person-- but also it's nice to be able to feel a little bit empowered to take ownership as well. So I appreciate that you're able to start bridging the gap and, and help them make be more accessible. So that's great.
[00:30:30] Hannah Went: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
[00:30:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, so, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach your masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:30:47] Hannah Went: Ooh. What would I choose to teach and why? I think the ,there's a book that's really good that I think everyone should read and it's called "The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership." And have you ever heard of it before, Lindsey?
[00:31:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Nope, but I'm writing it down.
[00:31:02] Hannah Went: Yeah. It's awesome. So there, there are a couple of authors on the book, but yeah, Jim Dethmer, he would previously go to all of these companies and understand how their leadership worked. And it's a super readable book, super short, breaks it down in all of these chunks, depending on what you want to really focus on. He actually came and spoke to our company and it was really cool to learn from him about this. He doesn't do it much anymore. So, we felt very special to, to be able to have him. And It can act in all areas of your life. So it's not necessarily just leadership . It really extrapolates out to relationships, whether it be a romantic one, or not, or kind of a family one. It is really I think changed my outlook on a lot of things in life.
So I think I would want to teach something that has to do with that, that book. Jim's wife actually does a lot of the Enneagram work too. So the Enneagram test and understanding really your, kind of, why you're wired the way you are almost. Everyone has this conception of life. And you get to learn more about the way people think and how they work and why they do the things they do. So everyone did that test, the Enneagram test, in our company, and you can start to see these patterns and things. And it's just very useful information and it just makes everyone, I think, work together and flow together a little bit better too, which is awesome.
[00:32:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It sounds like a great masterclass and I have it written down. I'm going to, I'm going to look it up right after so I can secure my copy. Yeah. So, and then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world? .
[00:32:39] Hannah Went: Oh, how do I wish to be remembered? Hopefully as someone who is loving and fun and taught the world something. Doesn't necessarily have to be epigenetics related, but I think people probably see me right now as someone who is like very busy running around all of the time, going from place to place, and I don't think I like that. That's just what I think my interpretation of me maybe would be from the outside. But it doesn't feel like I'm busy, right? It feels like I'm doing the things that I want to do right now and I don't think I necessarily even like the word busy, right? What does that mean? Everyone's busy. Everyone's doing something to a degree. So, yeah, I just want to be remembered as fun, loving you know, I think would also be remembered, though, just as hardworking, determined and yeah, willing to work hard to reach specific goals.
[00:33:32] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:33:41] Hannah Went: Just my family, my husband, my sisters, my mom, my stepdad, everyone. So I get to hang out with them next weekend. I'm super, super excited. We'll be with them at their lake house. So I'm excited to be with the family.
[00:33:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Oh yeah. That's going to be wonderful. Well, Hannah, this has been such a great conversation and I so appreciate your spending some time with me today and sharing about your incredible journey and everything that's coming up too. And I'm so excited for you and for this mission and to see the company continue to grow and expand, so I do really appreciate you. being here. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Equal Justice Initiative, which provides legal representation to prisoners who may have been wrongly convicted of crimes, poor prisoners without effective representation, and others who may have been denied a fair trial. So thank you for choosing that organization to support and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:34:49] Hannah Went: Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey. I appreciate your time.
[00:34:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely, you too. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
[00:35:06] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Ruba Sarris Sawaya | Managing Partner, MediStrat360 | Commercialization, Advocacy for Women in MedTech, & Industry Leadership

Ruba Sarris Sawaya is a distinguished medtech executive with over 20 years of experience. Ruba discusses her journey from pre-med research to leading roles in market access strategy and consulting for medical device companies. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, lifelong learning, and strategic thinking in her career. Ruba shares insights on women's empowerment in a male-dominated industry and the significance of broadening skillsets beyond assigned roles.
Guest links: www.MediStrat360.com | www.rizlabhealth.com 
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 040 - Ruba Sarris Sawaya
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Ruba Sarris Sawaya. Ruba is a medtech executive who has been passionately committed to the medtech industry over the last 20 years. She is a leader with a reputation for cultivating loyal, engaged, and collaborative teams and who carries a visionary mindset with the ability to conceptualize and execute effective strategies that have contributed to transformative growth and innovation in the medtech space.
She is currently leading market access strategy for RizLab Health portable diagnostics devices, enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities. Concurrently, she is the managing partner for MediStrat360, medical device consulting firm with a mission to accelerate the journey from concept to market for groundbreaking medical devices.
Her educational background includes a bachelor of arts from Austin College with a major in biology and a double minor in chemistry and physics, a master's in public health in epidemiology from the University of Texas Health Science Center, in addition to her acceptance and completion of the leadership studies program at the highly competitive Posey Leadership Institute. Ruba brings a wealth of corporate strategy expertise, and a track record enabling successful device commercialization and market access.
All right. Welcome to the show, Ruba. I'm so excited to talk with you today.
[00:02:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Thank you very much, Lindsey. I'm excited to be here. I appreciated the invite.
[00:02:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad we got connected. So I was wondering if you could start by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and maybe what led you to medtech.
[00:02:32] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So, I mean, I've spent the last 20 years working explicitly and specifically focused on medtech, dedicated to commercialization of really cool technologies that have a profound impact on patients' lives. And I'm grateful for the opportunity this career gave me to work on some really disruptive technologies and collaborate with some brilliant minds across the industry. I had a front row seat to seeing how the incredible impact to the medtech industry can have on transforming healthcare. So what brought me into it, I initially wanted to go to med school, like a lot of people. I covered all of the basics and then graduated.
And then, I was doing preclinical research at UT Southwestern Medical Center. And I completed all the requirements for pre med the summer before, took the MCATs, did all of it. The summer before I was supposed to start, decided I had a soft heart and that may not be the best decision. And so there was a moment there of, I'm going to start with research and kind of see where I go. And ended up working with a lot of reps and connected with a lot of people within the medical device industry.
So I started looking for jobs 'cause it felt like the perfect opportunity with the intent that the pre med thing was this sincerely and authentically with a focus on wanting to help patients, right? And the beautiful opportunity med device provided me is that it enabled me to do that without the risks and consequences tied to direct patient care. That soft empathy piece or the super empathy piece on mine wasn't at risk from that standpoint.
So I was doing research at UT Southwestern in the physiology department, interacting and engaging from a folks working on trials perspective and then medical devices that were being used at that medical center and then started applying for jobs within medtech. Took one managing preclinical research way back when at Orthofix, transitioned and got promoted to running clinical affairs there, and then got promoted again and managed clinical affairs, government affairs, health economics outcomes, research and reimbursement for that organization. And that was a really long time ago and then moved into different career roles from there. But that's the story on that one.
[00:04:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's incredible. So, okay. So let's bring it up to present day, and you are doing some fractional work and I know that you have, I'm sure quite a full schedule just in looking at your LinkedIn profile. I could see that you're extremely active in many avenues and I just love to hear some of what you're up to these days.
[00:05:13] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm currently leading market access strategy and advising for a diagnostics company called RizLab Health, and they have a portable hemo analyzer that's really focused on enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities, which is really cool. I'm the managing partner for MediStrat360, so it's a consulting firm hyper focused on just medical device and accelerating that journey from concept to market for disruptive groundbreaking medical devices.
So those are the two things that I'm currently focused on, and then I have some senior advising positions for quality regulatory and clinical for a couple of additional companies, one that's focused on sleep apnea devices. And that one's under an NDA. And then another diagnostics company. So I've got four fractional-- with RizLabs is to focus on device commercialization, go to market strategy. And then the focus for some of the other ones very much centered around regulatory clinical quality.
[00:06:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yeah. So, so with that you mentioned that you were doing this preclinical research and decided to switch gears a little bit. And now you've got such a, an amazing breadth of skill sets and experience and expertise. And I'm kind of wondering, within medtech, what was the journey like to learning, all these different aspects that now you are such an expert in. For example, say regulatory.
[00:06:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I think for me, because you don't see that often, you see a lot of folks that start in one specific area with respect to medtech, and they develop a pretty comprehensive depth in that area over the span of 20 years. I would argue that I've had an extraordinary career and that has not been my journey. And that has not been my journey mainly because I took roles within companies that were either smaller or midsize, and there was always a willingness to proactively volunteer, not even volunteer, but proactively volunteer, raise my hand when people left or when certain gaps existed that needed to be filled, and then proactively choosing to look at issues that were going on within an organization more holistically outside of my department.
So just because my roles and responsibilities said I covered clinical didn't change the fact that I paid attention to a dynamic that said, there are reimbursement challenges that are happening. One, we were getting coverage and pushback from an insurance company tied to certain devices, engaging with an industry coalition to try and get some of those policies overturned, and recognizing that the information that I gained as a result of that experience identified certain gaps for the evidence portfolio for clinical affairs.
So how did that happen? I think that happened because I had a habit of, I'm choosing to pay attention to what the organization needed and choosing to see the links for the existing roles and responsibilities that I had, and how they bridged across the organization. And then being proactive, quite frankly, about when I was really dedicated to every company I worked for and readily dedicated to the mission that they had and choosing to take roles that I may not have been ready for or may not have had full core competencies for in an effort to support that organization. So in a lot of cases I took it on and I was, I became an obsession and I learned everything I could and I addressed certain gaps by bringing in additional expertise with the intent that we still got the organization's mission accomplished in spite of the deficiencies or gaps or turnover that was going on.
[00:08:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. I love that. You have been so curious and eager to learn and willing to step outside your roles and responsibilities and seek to understand what the organization needs. I'm sure that really helps now with your consulting work, because you're probably way better able to, and equipped to, find those gaps that you mentioned in a company's strategy or whatnot. And so I, what a strength to be able to bring that breadth of knowledge.
[00:09:34] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's interesting when clients approach me about a dynamic that says, "We have this challenge." It is a prism where that challenge ties to different additional facets of the organization or facets of their market commercialization strategy. So we end up providing value and feedback that's not only solving the problem they came to us with, but providing recommendations that have an impact across different facets within that organization or within that product commercialization strategy. And I'm telling you it's, it is, that is one, I would argue, differentiating value prop that I bring to the table on the consulting side is offering that feedback where it's not it's not one sided. It's got depth to it and it touches different dimensions because we're not looking at it just within the scope of the problem as it's presented.
[00:10:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. That's great. That's something very unique to be able to offer. And so, you know, that curiosity and growth mindset, willingness to fill in the gaps and figure out how to, where did that come from? Have you always been a very sort of curious, eager to learn, lifelong learner type individual, or is that something you developed over time?
[00:10:50] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Both, I'll say both. The lifelong learner piece, definitely a part of my personality my whole life, one. Two, I will also say I was lucky in having some phenomenal mentors and strategic leaders that drove that value and the importance of that value, and enforcing us to see the bigger picture and think more holistically. And so I started out with that as part of who I am. And then on top of that, it was further reinforced by having some fantastic leaders that I was lucky enough to work with and for that emphasized the importance of that.
[00:11:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And, you've mentioned having some amazing leaders that were in positions to really help mentor and guide and lead. And I'm wondering, what are some of the most impactful pieces of advice that you've received from leaders that you look up to and or now as accomplished leader yourself, what do you see as being some of the best pieces of leadership advice?
[00:11:54] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you some of my favorites on what makes a good leader and things to pay attention to as a good leader. So to me, anybody who's trying to explore a leadership role within medtech-- it's to everything we just talked about-- it's unbelievably important to choose to see beyond the expected. So have a deep understanding. If you're a project manager for R&D and you want to get promoted to, you want to move up the ladder, you having a deep understanding of the technical aspects of medical device is important, but it's just as important to cultivate a deep understanding of not only the technical, but the technical and business aspects. So the willingness to learn beyond the scope that you are assigned to, the willingness to recognize the importance of strategic thinking, is really important from a leadership standpoint.
Additional aspects that are important with respect to strategic thinking, don't be afraid to voice ideas, but be strategic about how and when you do that. So navigating a leadership role to me really requires developing a good acumen on knowing when to assert your ideas and when to hold back, learning how to read different situations and understand the dynamics at play. I think some of the most important advice I was ever given was that we all, especially when you join a new organization, we all have a proclivity for wanting to prove our value or demonstrate our value as soon as possible.
And some of the best advice I've given that I've passed along is to be strategic, is to be really good about proactively recognizing when it's a good opportunity for you to do that. And when you're better off holding back and listening and observing and understanding the dynamics of play and choosing your moments wisely on when you make impactful contributions, right? Doing that, you maximize the effectiveness of the input you provide and the influence that you end up having and sometimes holding back initially, choosing to observe and listen gives you insights that better inform your strategy for what to do or how to do it.
Building a network is also really important. That's another really good piece of leadership advice. We tend to keep our head down. Early on in my career, I definitely did that. I treat networking and the relationship management as a mandatory part of the job with roles I've had where I'm within an organization and outside of that. So I think that part is unbelievably important for leadership and success. And it's not just the creating a network offers job opportunities. It's creating a network offers opportunities to seek advice and to learn and to stay plugged in from an industry standpoint. So continuous learning is about being proactive and seeking those opportunities to challenge my current thinking, quite frankly, and expand my horizons from that standpoint.
[00:14:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. That was so much great advice. Thank you for sharing all of that. I think even the first thing you said, I really appreciated about, see beyond the expected. And I think that's such, I have never heard it put quite like that before, and I really like that of your willingness to go beyond your scope, so that you keep learning and I like your idea of continuing to even challenge your own beliefs and thoughts and processes. All those things. If you can keep doing that, then you're growing, you're learning, you can't stay stagnant that way. So yeah, I appreciate that advice a lot.
[00:15:38] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: One, to be clear, it comes from tons of mistakes made and lessons learned over a couple of decades for starting out in a technical role and a technical career. Those are common mistakes I see made, which is you're presenting to management on a project update, and the tendency for us technical folks, for people that started their careers out in science, is to very much focus on the technical aspects of what are going on without taking into account how that information is being presented, the impact that it's having on the politics and the different players in the room and their intent. So it's choosing to see things in a different light than the way that you're used to processing them is very important. Strategic thinking. It's different.
[00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And being willing, like you said, to look beyond and to approach things in a different way and maybe take a step back sometimes. Say, "Okay, I need to keep observing before I dive in with my solutions."
[00:16:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and take stretch rules. I think that's the other thing from a career development. Nobody owns your career. You own that. And If you love medtech, if you love whatever your profession may be, if your goal is advancement and leadership positions within that, but then that profession or that role, it's recognizing that you have to learn other things beyond just R&D if your goal is to manage a division or manage a sector . So I think, it's saying you're going to fulfill your roles and responsibilities and focus on accomplishing those goals, but be selfish about raising your hand for stretch opportunities that provide you exposure to other areas and dimensions of medtech that are outside of your scope, right? With the intent that you're getting that exposure is unbelievably important.
[00:17:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, I could not agree more. One thing that I noticed from just looking at your LinkedIn profile is you are very passionate about a lot of issues facing our society, our community. And, I saw some speaking opportunities and things where you focus on women's empowerment and whatnot. And I was wondering if you might share a little bit about your passions outside of work that do speak to it. So even with women's empowerment, encouraging women in the medtech field and whatnot, because we have listeners who might really appreciate some of your perspective and advice on that. Would you be willing to share?
[00:18:14] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Let's be very frank and transparent. I'm a woman that's been predominantly working in a male industry, and I've had some wonderful experiences, but I've also been granted some wonderful obstacles that tested my resilience and determination. I learned over time to see those challenges as an opportunity to strengthen my resolve and even my commitment. And so to me, a few pieces of advice to empower women as they navigate their own paths in leadership is to embrace your unique perspective. I think as women, we bring diverse experiences and insights to the table. And we should never underestimate the value of that viewpoint that we bring as women, right?
Early in my career, and I've run into a lot of women that feel this pressure, to posture, to present themselves with a set of characteristics that are more akin to male dominated characteristics versus owning their executive presence, and recognizing the value they bring in authenticity for presenting who they are authentically and not underestimating the value of their own viewpoint versus others complying with the mass or succumbing to the pressure. So I think it's unbelievably important to honor and respect and embrace that unique perspective that you bring as a woman, trusting your instincts and not being afraid to voice your ideas.
But again, unbelievably important to be strategic about when you choose to do that. And that piece of advice applies across both. And I think women have a tendency to coming into, especially high level, higher level management roles, a desire to want to prove our worth and prove we have a seat at the table. You have earned the right to sit at that table by default of the fact that you have been offered the job and you have it. Be smart, strategic about when and how you choose to weigh in, recognizing the politics at that same table, right? Is important.
And then advocating for yourself and others to the point that you made about, I do quite a bit of speaking. I am on a mission to drive transformative technologies within healthcare. I'm also on a secondary mission to enable an increase in the number of extraordinary women and their commitment to that mission, right? So advocacy, empowerment, education, training on communications and engagement for women is a focus and how I choose to spend my time with the intent that I sincerely believe the more women that you have, more women and more diversity, quite frankly, that you can have in medtech, the better devices and the higher the impact that you can have with respect to innovation in medtech and an impact that MedTech can have on healthcare. So to me, that is a focus.
[00:21:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, and I very much appreciate your perspective and your willingness to share about it. And the fact that this is a mission for you. So, thank you for continuing to support and elevate women in medtech, 'cause it's a need. And to your point, I appreciate you saying that women bring a unique perspective. And so that can be your superpower and you don't need to shrink.
[00:21:37] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: 100 percent and authenticity, Lindsey. I think women bring a unique perspective and value the power of authenticity. Resist the urge to position or posture or present yourself as "A" because you believe that "A" is what they want to see. There is unbelievable power in an executive presence of a woman leader that is authentic in the way she presents herself.
[00:22:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, could not agree more. Yeah, so, your career has been so interesting and I love the running theme of you being willing to continue to learn and grow and step out of the current role so that you can fill in the gaps. And I'm wondering if there are any moments that stand out to you where it just made you go, "Wow, I am really in the right place, at the right time, in the right industry."
[00:22:36] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So there's been a few of those, but I think one of the most memorable was when-- I have had a few leadership roles within Medtronic, and there's an annual event that gets held there where patients will are willing to share their stories with company employees. And listening to those stories, you realize what a difference we were making to the daily lives of those individuals. It was unbelievably moving and it gives you a renewed sense of hope. So we all in that office, especially, it's an extraordinary group of people that are working unbelievably hard and all of us were running at 90 and it's a constant hurricane of work, right? You lose sight. of how those hundred little activities we do every day are contributing in a transformational way to the lives of others. And sitting through that two hour testimonial set with those patients was a really emotional experience that kind of puts everything in perspective. That was a good what seven years plus now since I sat through that and it still resonates with me. I still think about it all the time.
[00:23:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really powerful too, to have those moments of realizing the impact that you're making and it is easy to get caught up in the daily grind. And, and forget that, oh my goodness is actually, this impacts somebody's life.
[00:24:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It brings it to focus, Lindsey. I loved that whole experience because, and I'm telling you, on the days when getting up in the morning is a little harder than others, it's a nice reminder to just force myself to recalibrate against that. And that we tolerate the craziness, we tolerate the difficulties, we tolerate the barriers and the more difficult days because we have an impact on the back end of the lives of other human beings. And that's the reason I've stayed in medtech for the last 20. There's something extraordinary about that. The ability to do that for someone else is amazing.
[00:24:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it's a gift and it's something to come back to when the days are hard and long and frustrating, because you really do know what you're doing matters. Yeah.
[00:24:52] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Exactly right.
[00:24:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be related to it. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:25:15] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Honestly, I would teach exactly what I'm, a lot of the time I'm teaching now, which is device commercialization. And, to your earlier question about give me a couple of things that inspired you and told you were right where you needed to be, I taught a course at University of New Mexico, their innovation center a few weeks ago. And one of the nicest comments I've ever gotten from a career perspective is somebody came up to me afterwards and said, "I've been working with folks for a decade plus, and this is the first time in my life I have gotten such a good training that I walked out having a solid understanding of how these pieces tie together from a regulatory perspective and commercialization perspective." So what would I teach exactly what I'm what a lot of the time I'm teaching now from a consulting perspective, which is device commercialization. I picked a career that, that I'm lit up by and that I'm inspired by. I'd be doing the exact same thing, Lindsey. I wouldn't change a thing.
[00:26:13] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's so great.
[00:26:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That's very special. I love that. Yeah. Okay. And then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:26:26] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: That I do quite a bit of mentoring. That I had an impact, that I inspired a group of people to maintain this mission to transforming healthcare. It's not just putting out and launching additional devices. It's sincerely a focus on looking at the areas across our healthcare system here in the U. S. and otherwise, and looking for opportunities to change the dynamic in a positive way. So after I die, what I want to be remembered for that the folks that I have, and I've taken on quite a bit over 20 years that I've tried to help grow and advance career wise that I inspired them to keep doing this. And I inspired them to do it well, and do it with integrity and do it right.
[00:27:16] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. And then final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:27:27] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I mean, personal, probably my cat. We have a British short hair that has an insanely cute face and it's impossible-- I don't care how stressful of a day I've had-- impossible not to crack a smile thinking about that fluff ball. So yeah, our cat for sure.
[00:27:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word, I love that. Animals are the best.
[00:27:49] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yes, well, and she's a recent addition. So we've had her a year. And it is definitely the stress buster.
[00:27:57] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect.
[00:27:59] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: For sure.
[00:28:00] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect. Animals are inherently just happiness. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I am so thankful for your willingness to share about your background and what you're up to now, but especially all of your advice. It was so packed full of just amazing pieces of advice to take away. And I really appreciate that you're willing to share all of that with us. So, gosh, thank you so much for your time and thank you for being here and and doing that. I really appreciate it.
[00:28:33] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and likewise, thank you for doing this again. I'm a huge advocate for getting more folks and more people and more women and more individuals involved in medtech, and recognizing the phenomenal opportunities that medtech brings from a career standpoint. And so thank you for doing this because you're spreading that message and educating people on other career options besides, you know, firefighter, doctor, lawyer, engineer. So we appreciate what you're doing too, Lindsey, this is great.
[00:29:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. That made my day
[00:29:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's important. We got to spread the message.
[00:29:09] Lindsey Dinneen: it's very true. It's very true. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:29:55] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Harout Markarian | Founder, MARKBOTIX | Empowering Independence with Assistive Robotics & His Passion for Helping People

Harout Markarian, founder and CEO of MARKBOTIX, shares his journey from Lebanon to the US, transitioning from a professional basketball player to a skilled roboticist. He discusses his educational background in mechanical engineering, robotics, and business, leading to the creation of MARKBOTIX. The company develops GRACE, an assistive robot for the elderly and disabled, aiming to reduce falls and improve quality of life. Harout's passion for engineering and helping people drives his mission to enhance independent living and accessibility.
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haroutmarkarian/ | https://www.markbotix.com/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 039 - Harout Markarian
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce to you as my guest today, Harout Markarian. Harout is the founder and CEO of MARKBOTIX, an innovative assistive robotics startup focused on transforming care for the elderly and individuals with disabilities.
Harout, a skilled roboticist with multiple patents, holds a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering, a master's in robotics, and an MBA. His professional path has been marked by significant leadership roles in engineering at top firms, including the Boeing company, where he designed the air refueling flight controls algorithm for the Boeing C 17.
At MARKBOTIX, Harout's team is developing GRACE, Ground Robotic Assistant for Care Enablement, robot designed to reduce risks of falls, hospital readmission rates, and caregiver burnout, while providing support for everyday tasks. Under his leadership, MARKBOTIX has garnered significant interest, including over a hundred letters of intent from various facilities and is currently involved in beta testing with organizations like the VA Hospital.
Harout is also a published author and speaker, advocating for the right use of robotics to improve independent living and accessibility through his book, "Mobility and Inclusion." His work extends beyond business as he actively contributes to the community, particularly through support for organizations aiding the elderly and individuals with mobility challenges.
All right. Well, welcome Harout. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to talk with you.
[00:02:23] Harout Markarian: Likewise.
[00:02:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, I wondered if you wouldn't mind starting off by just telling us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your background and maybe how you got into medtech.
[00:02:36] Harout Markarian: Sure. So I, I am an immigrant from Lebanon, a former professional basketball player, danced ballet for a little bit, and at one point ,my parents decided to immigrate to the United States. Needless to say that my academic career was a tremendously suffering when I was busy with the basketballs and the ballet dances of the world. So, so when they decided to immigrate to the United States. States. I was strongly against it, but deep down I knew that my parents always did things for the benefit of me and my sister. So, unwillingly I followed them. I came to the United States in 2008. I was 23, about to be 24 years old.
And at that time, basically everything that I knew disappeared from my life. Everything that was normal to me disappeared. So I had to do something. I had no money. My parents didn't come with money. So I had to support, I had to help, so I worked full time as a waiter and I was also going to school full time to continue my undergrad in mechanical engineering. Mind you that I already completed three years of engineering back in Lebanon. When I got here, they said, "Oh the institution that you attended is not accredited." And my luck, I guess the institution got accredited a year after I left.
[00:04:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, no.
[00:04:05] Harout Markarian: But it was a blessing in disguise. As I said, I wasn't the best student at the time. So the grades were reflective of that too. So, now that everything is no, no more distractions were in my life, I focused on my studies, finished three years of undergrad in mechanical engineering in a year and a half. My GPA went from 1. 8 to 3. 5 by the time I graduated. And during my final year when I was developing the senior design with my team, I experienced a tremendous shift in my life because I was part of this project where we built a six foot tall, fully autonomous robot. And we won the first place internationally in the autonomous unmanned system vehicle international competition.
And that was a really a shift in my career in the way I viewed engineering, I viewed education, because up until that point, it was just to satisfy my parents. I'm like, "Here you go. This is the paper you wanted. Get off my back." But ,but right after that, it was like, okay, I want to know more about this robotics world because I really enjoyed it and I'm very curious individual. So robotics has different disciplines, sub disciplines I should say. So there's a mechanical design team, there's the cognition vision team, there's the electrical team, there's a navigation team. So, and I wanted to learn it all and I got involved with everything. And I really enjoyed it.
So I ended up pursuing my master's immediately right after I graduated my bachelor's degree. I pursued my master's in robotics, and I was the only one in my cohort or not just cohort, in that year, that opted out of the, the comprehensive exam and wanted to do a thesis dissertation. Because I really enjoyed it. For me, theory alone doesn't mean anything. I need to see it in application. And that's kind of how I pursued it. I was able to build a stair climbing wheelchair. And that's a scale prototype of a stair climbing wheelchair that I presented it to my thesis committee and I learned a lot. I learned a lot and I graduated, but mind you at this time, I'm already working, I'm five years into my, my career in aerospace and defense. So things are going well. Really nothing medtech or healthcare related in my life yet. Except for that stair climbing wheelchair.
And, and the reason for that is because I had the opportunity to work with a severely paralyzed person on brain computer interface technology that allowed him to propel his wheelchair through his thoughts. And when I got signed up to this project, I said, "Oh, moving things with your thoughts. That's cool. Let's do it." So, but I was approaching it like so mindlessly, if you will, because I didn't understand the impact that could have on individuals, especially individuals with disabilities, individual with limited mobility and elderly and everything in between.
So while we were testing this technology with this individual, it required some training, basically. It's like an electrode that attaches to your skull. So it's a helmet that you wear. And as you think thoughts, it transfers to electrical signals that moves, that propels the wheelchair, moves the motors, right? A very simplistic way of explanation, of course. And, I was trying to test it by myself. So wearing the helmet, trying to move this wheelchair one way or the other. And it was very difficult because it's not second nature to me. I don't, I'm not a wheelchair user. So I, that's not a thing in my mind, but for this individual who was a paraplegic, it was, that was his legs basically. So for him, it was very second nature, right? So, and he got on there and I put the helmet on, set up everything for him and he was driving his wheelchair like I drive my car. That, that, that's how second nature it was for him. And for a moment there, I felt like I was the one with the disability. I couldn't even move a freaking wheelchair with my, so that was a big lesson for me in terms of understanding how limited we can be in, in different aspects of our lives, right?
So, at that point I was, that was the first time I realized when I saw how independence and accessibility, what it meant to that individual. That was the first time in my life I said that I want to start a robotics company to help people become more independent. So, so to, to make their environment more accessible for them and to o for the elderly, to have them age with dignity. And that was the purpose. But nothing happened. I just continued with my life, with my job in the aerospace and defense industry.
And then sometime later I decided, okay, I think I have a decent background in the technical side of things. I don't know much about business. Let's go get an MBA. So, so, so I went back to school. I did MBA at Pepperdine University. And I loved it because Pepperdine, at least the cohort that I was in and the teacher that I had, everybody was industry professionals and had their PhDs in their respective fields. So it wasn't, I wasn't just learning theory. I was learning how to apply that theory to real world problems. And that's how I learned that. That's where I thrive, right. And once, once I graduated with my my master's degree from Pepperdine, I, next day I went and incorporated the company. Literally the next day I went there and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to incorporate the company." And that's how MARKBOTIX was born.
I'm not a hundred percent medtech. I'm approaching medtech from a different angle, if you will. But part of that, when I incorporated the company, I didn't really know what products or service I was really gonna offer. I knew who I wanted to serve, who were the people with disabilities, elderly, people in home cares, assisted living facilities. But I didn't know how to best serve them and with what. So I took a year and a half of going around and talking to people, basically doing customer discovery.
And part of that customer discovery session, I stumbled upon the Ground Robotic Assistant for Care Enablement, which we call GRACE now. And all that robot does it initially, at least all that it did, was to pick items up, retrieve items for individuals so they don't risk a fall and then now they're in back in hospital or they injured something. And we're talking about fragile people, right? So when they injure something, the repercussions from it is really could, it could be hefty basically. And as I kept on talking to people, I built this prototype that retrieves items initially, and I tested it with over 300 people, and the more I tested it, the more apparent the need was. People were actually helping me feature up. So, we started with item retrieval, it went to real time video and audio interaction, remote operability, and other stuff that were included in the robot that right now is in development mode.
And that's brings me to today where we're raising our first round of funding to bring this to life. We have a bunch of letters of intents from assisted living facilities and somewhere along the way that the DOD got interested in it. We got in contact with the Veterans Hospital. So everybody seems very interested in working with us. So we're, so today we're raising our first round of funding to bring this to life.
[00:11:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. That's incredible. Well, there's so much to your story. I'm so excited to dive in deeper. But first of all, congratulations on your company and its success and the interest, and I'm so excited because I know you're going to be helping so many people and there's such a need for it. So kudos.
[00:12:18] Harout Markarian: That's the goal. Yep. Thank you.
[00:12:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, okay. So your story is so interesting and it has so many different twists and turns. And I'm kind of curious, especially knowing, you started off with basketball and ballet and you did your academics of course, but maybe that wasn't quite the focus, could eight year old you have ever pictured you now doing what you're doing?
[00:12:44] Harout Markarian: No. So two things. So I knew I wanted to be an engineer, even though I didn't know what that meant at that time. Ever since I was young, I knew I wanted to be an engineer, but I can confidently tell you that I didn't know what that meant. I just, my dad was a mechanic body shop person. He was an entrepreneur. He has his own place. So I thought that was, that's what I was going to be doing if I studied engineering. So that was stupid I was. The other thing is that, no, I mean, my dad was also a professional basketball player.
[00:13:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:13:15] Harout Markarian: So, so having those two in mind, eight year old me would never picture me being here today, let alone leaving the country, right?
[00:13:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, do you still do anything with either basketball or ballet or has?
[00:13:29] Harout Markarian: No, I don't actually want. So once I left both ballet or dancing in general and basketball, I just completely abandoned it.
[00:13:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Ah, okay. Fair enough. Do you miss it?
[00:13:43] Harout Markarian: No, I don't, because I mean, it was good while I did it and I did it for a long period, I mean, relatively long period of time. So I did dancing for about 10, 12 years. And basketball, I did it from 16 when I went to professional to 23 years, 23 years old. I mean, relatively short career. But for me, my biggest passion was basketball. Just seeing my dad play, and then me being in that world. It was the biggest passion, and when it was taken away from me, or however you want to look at it, or I gave it up. I didn't give it up. I didn't want to give it up. Even long after it was over, I didn't want to accept that was not part of my life anymore. I was passionless for a while. So, finding that robotics world where I'm interested in something again, was a big shift for me.
[00:14:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really big deal. And that is hard, but I feel like it speaks a lot also to your resilience and your willingness to, to change and to pivot, as much as that word is overused. But you know, the thing is you have such a growth mindset, clearly. I mean, you're such a lifelong learner, you've gone and done the things that you wanted to do, but those aren't easy things that you've decided to do and you've had such a robust career so far. I mean, I love the fact that I think you're such a great testament to the ability to keep learning and keep enhancing your skillsets and keep going even when it is frustrating or you feel like you've lost this crucial part of you, but you still are able to keep going and do something amazing with your life. I think that's...
[00:15:24] Harout Markarian: Absolutely.
[00:15:25] Lindsey Dinneen: ...courage.
[00:15:26] Harout Markarian: I mean, I mean, you have to do that because the only constant in your life is change. So you either adapt or you just fall behind and become miserable. And everything bad that goes, that follows that, right? So, if you don't change, time is moving forward, so you're just falling behind.
[00:15:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You started off in your career working for others and you had a amazing experiences, it sounds like, with very well known companies and brands, and then you switched to starting your own business and I know you got your MBA and I'm sure that helps you feel more prepared, but I do feel like there's often this-- once you actually do it, how much you have to learn on the job, so to speak. So I would love if you wouldn't mind speaking about your entrepreneurial journey and how that has changed and grown over time.
[00:16:15] Harout Markarian: Yeah, so, so I'll tell you that college education doesn't mean that you're going to be able to thrive in the business world, right? Whether it's a technical side of thing or the business side of things. Unless you dive in there and do it yourself, you're just going to be dumber than a bag of rocks. So, I'm sorry for the expression, but that's that's how it is. Basically what engineering taught me is how to figure things out. They didn't teach me to find a job and hit the road running with that job, right. So everywhere I went, every company I worked for, I had to restart from scratch, go into my baggage of tools that college education gave me and depending on these knowledges, just figure out how to do my current job today and how to learn more. Because what you learn in school is just a baseline thing. It's just nothing really.
And nowadays you can learn anything and everything online. I would even argue that nowadays, unless you're a doctor or an engineer a lawyer, maybe you don't really have to go to school. Everything else can be learned online. And there's a lot of resources today that back 10, 15 years ago, we didn't have. So on the job learning is the most real thing anyone can ever think of. Pepperdine came really close because I did my actual business plan to the company that I'm building today, I did it at Pepperdine. So it was a benefit for me because I studied, I got my education at the same time I worked on my business, so that's why I liked it a lot. But don't think that you're going to go to college and you're going to take a job.
And all employers know, by the way, all employers know that they're going to teach you a lot when they hire you, they're just hiring you based on, I don't know, your enthusiasm, the willingness to learn, willingness to be adaptable, your demeanor, your behavior. That's what they're hiring. And I'm a Director of Engineering right now at different companies. So I hire people all the time. So that I don't hire them. I don't expect them to know things. I expect them to know basic things, but I don't expect them to hit the ground running regardless of where they are in their career.
[00:18:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Sure. So when you stepped into this, this entrepreneurial journey, and you're the owner of a company, you are the leader of this vision-- did you find that to be a relatively easy transition because of the past experiences that you'd had? Or was that element of stepping into this high leadership role, was that, yeah, difficult in any way?
[00:18:56] Harout Markarian: In different things that I tried in my life, I felt like I was always adaptable. I was always willing to learn. And I never quit. I failed a lot, but I never quit. Right? So I feel like that definitely contributed to, to how I'm managing myself in this role. Is it easy? It's not easy at all. It's difficult. Whoever tells you starting a company, building a company is easy, it's out of their mind, especially in the beginning stages. Because having other people get on board and see your vision, it's the toughest challenge a founder can embark on. So if you overcome that, then you definitely have what it takes to lead a company.
[00:19:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. And so are there any moments that stand out to you as you've started this company or even prior to that, where it just kind of confirmed to you, "Yes, I am in the right industry, at the right time for a purpose." Was there like a moment that you thought, "Wow, this is why I'm here."
[00:20:05] Harout Markarian: Well, first and foremost, I pray to God every day. I asked God for his guidance. If it's not part of his plans, please give me a sign. So I just go do something else, right? And till now he didn't give me any sign to abandoning it, but or I'm that, I'm just that's too but that i'm not realizing it but no, that's that's my first go to right? I always embark on my day, on my journey, by asking God to guide me through it. Having said that, the countless numbers of interviews and research that I've done-- and this, mind you, this is not leveraged research-- this is me talking to people one on one. So over 1000 interviews over the past year and a half, or almost two years talking to people, it was reassuring to me that, okay, this is needed and I'm going to be helping a lot of people.
And that's really what kept me on this journey. Just now I feel responsible for all the people I talked to. I have a responsibility to see this through. If I focus on the competitors, the market, the investment, the investor, then I would give up long time ago. Then that's not the right way because the market, the investor, the Investment, they didn't do the work I did in terms of talking to the end user and how it's going to benefit them. So they don't really know that, they don't understand that. So it's my job to, we talked about vision, it's my job to clarify the vision to the investor, in this case. So it sees that how many people is going to benefit from this. So that was the reassuring factor. Conducting that customer discovery was so important. Because that sets the expectations for myself and everyone I talk to.
[00:21:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. I think it's helpful, so helpful to have those moments, something to hold on to when it does get hard because it's inevitably going to get hard and frustrating and discouraging at times. So being able to go, "Oh, wow. But I know this is impacting people. And if I don't do it, will anybody else?" That's, but that's powerful to motivate you.
[00:22:22] Harout Markarian: Yeah, and I mean, I want more people to do what I'm doing because the market supports it, right? Just, we're talking right now, a little left brain, right? Logic. The market supports it, there's gonna be more people older people. The elderly population is increasing, is going to get bigger. So there should be more companies like mine addressing the same need because one or two or three companies are not going to be able to close the gap.
[00:22:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So what are you most looking forward to both perhaps personally and then professionally with your business? What is on the horizon that you're excited about?
[00:23:02] Harout Markarian: Personally, I just want to enjoy my family, enjoy my wife, my kids, my parents before they're gone, because of everyone, everyone's going to leave at one point. So I would love to have some quality time with my parents, with my kids, with my wife. That's on the personal side. That's what's really meaningful to me.
On the business side, I just want to add value to people. Hopefully this will be the vehicle, how I'd be able to do that. And as I said, I feel like I have the responsibility right now to see this through just because of all the conversations that I've had with people with different disabilities, with different challenges that this technology could help them overcome that.
[00:23:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And it's exciting. You're in a really exciting growth phase too. So there's a lot to, a lot to be joyful about, I suppose.
[00:23:54] Harout Markarian: Yeah.
[00:23:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's amazing. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:24:12] Harout Markarian: For them to be connected with God more because I feel like, and I don't know if I'm the right person to teach that, right? But because everything else doesn't matter. Everything else is temporary. I think the divine is, is the only thing that is not temporary. Your spirit, your soul is the only thing that is not temporary. Your challenges, your difficulties, your tough times, your good times, your money, your lack of money, all of that is temporary. What's not temporary is your soul and spirit and what happens to it afterwards. So, a lot of people today are behind social media and the fakeness of the world. And that's what I want to separate myself from, and see if I had the opportunity, I would just teach people to be more authentic and more connected to God.
[00:24:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:25:05] Harout Markarian: I don't know if I want to be remembered, but if I do good to people, if I serve people in this world, in my time here hopefully I'll I please my God. And that's what's important to me, because pleasing God is serving others. So that's what it means to me. If I do that, then hopefully I'm pleasing God and helping people in the way. That's my thing.
I don't know what being remembered means really who's remembering me, right? That's the question that I always ask and I wasn't always I didn't always think this way. I didn't always think this way. I always said to myself, okay, I want to be remembered like this great athlete, for example, right, when I played basketball. Or I want to be remembered like the person who founded the biggest assisted robotics company in the world. All that doesn't mean anything, because all that is material stuff, in my humble opinion. And I'm not saying I'm right, right? This is how I think. As, as long as I'm serving others, I'm helping others, hopefully doing it in a gracious way, that's what I'm looking for.
[00:26:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's incredible and that's, I frankly wish that more people felt that way. So I think that's a, I
[00:26:15] Harout Markarian: Well, I, it's a hard thing to do and I'm not saying I'm doing it perfectly. Sometimes we have a lot of distractions. That's not the norm So if we follow what's around us, then we're not going to think that way and I struggle with it too. So I constantly strive to keep myself true to what I just said right now.
[00:26:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yep. There you go. And then, final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:26:42] Harout Markarian: Oh, my kids. My son is five, my daughter is two ,and they're hilarious, even when they're a pain in my ass, so. So, sometimes the things they say is, and then, I like to also I'm a light guy. I like to think that I'm a light guy, so everything is a joke to me. I don't take a lot of things seriously. So I'm always giving people hard time kind of in a humorous way. So I like to pick on my wife, pick on my sisters. So these kinds of things make me smile. Sometimes it's stupid. Sometimes it's makes others smile to you, but it's just light stuff. I just enjoy my life, enjoy the time I have with the people I love the most.
[00:27:20] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's fantastic. Yeah, well, first of all, again, thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights. And, it's so interesting to me how you have had such resilience and a growth mindset and now discovered this sense of humor as well. I mean, I'm sure that helped exponentially as you had to go through so many different iterations or stages or seasons, whatever you want to call it of your life. And some of them sounds quite difficult. So I just want to say thank you for sharing that story and thank you for talking about it and giving inspiration and hope to somebody else who might also be in maybe a transition period or something like that, where it might be a little harder. So I, anyway, just... thank you.
[00:28:05] Harout Markarian: And I, I don't downplay the challenges, right? Of course I recognize them, but I just choose to take it lightly because as I said, nothing is permanent. Everything is temporary, so don't think too much about it. Just, pray and move along.
[00:28:23] Lindsey Dinneen: That should be on a t shirt that you sell or something.
[00:28:26] Harout Markarian: Yeah, that's a good idea. I might I'm that might be merchandise. I'll say I sell on MARKBOTIX's website.
[00:28:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Please do. That's amazing. I love it. Oh my gosh. That's so fun. Well, this has been such a great conversation. I've enjoyed it so much and I'm very appreciative of you spending some time with me today and talking, and we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today. And that is to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:29:11] Harout Markarian: Thank you so much. And thank you for your time as well, Lindsey.
[00:29:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:29:25] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Ashley Mooneyham & Jennie Lynch | Co-Founders, Momease | Bridging Science, Motherhood, & Femtech

Ashley Mooneyham and Jennie Lynch are the co-founders of Momease. Ashley, a PhD-trained scientist and melanoma survivor, shares her journey from cancer biology research to developing an innovative breast pump solution inspired by her own motherhood challenges. Jennie, a serial nonprofit entrepreneur, discusses her transition to the MedTech industry and the importance of supporting new mothers. Together, they highlight their mission to create a pumping bra with warmth and massage, aiming to improve the breastfeeding experience for women. Their story is one of passion, innovation, and dedication to advancing women's health.
 
Guest links: https://www.momeasesolutions.com/ | www.linkedin.com/company/momeasesolutions/ | www.instagram.com/momease_solutions/ | https://www.facebook.com/MomeaseSolutionsInc/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 038 - Ashley Mooneyham & Jennie Lynch
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guests today. They are Ashley Mooneyham and Jennie Lynch. Ashley is the CEO and co founder of Momease with experience as a mother and as a PhD trained scientist to lead research and development. Jennie is the president and co founder of Momease. She is a serial entrepreneur in the nonprofit space with customer base experience leading operations.
Well, thank you so much for being here, Ashley and Jennie. I'm so excited to speak with both of you today.
[00:01:33] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you.
[00:01:34] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, thank you for having us.
[00:01:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by sharing just a little bit about yourself, your background, and maybe what led you to MedTech. Ashley, do you want to start us off and we'll go from there?
 
[00:01:48] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, sure. So my background is in kind of your traditional laboratory research science. I did choose to pursue a PhD in cancer biology, and that was motivated both by my own personal experiences as a melanoma survivor, as well as, of course, knowing so many people who suffer from cancer and are impacted by cancer. I really wanted to make a difference there. And I very much intentionally chose a laboratory for my thesis work that focused on ovarian cancer research because I've always been really passionate about how scientific discovery can impact human health. And of course, as we're all aware, women's health kind of lags behind. So we need more women in science to be asking those questions and pursuing those answers when it comes to translating scientific discovery into impacting women clinical outcomes.
And I really enjoyed my thesis work, but I felt far from making that clinical impact. I was doing the traditional bench work, working with mice in the basement of my university, and I just wanted to get a bit closer to the action. So after my PhD, I became a medical writer at Superior Medical Experts, which is a Minnesota small business focused on medical writing and research support. And I actually was quickly promoted to their Director of Grants, where I helped small businesses in the medical device industry pursue federal grant funding to de risk their medical innovation. So I got to learn a lot of varieties of discipline within scientific medical device and technology innovation, and got really excited at helping them secure funding to see their idea come to life. And I've actually worked with a few companies that since working with them have made it to clinical use of their innovative technology, which was super rewarding.
Then in April 2021, I had my daughter, she's 3 years old now. And I kind of naively thought it would be easy to go back to work after that experience. But a huge pain point in my going back to work was. trying to maintain my breast milk supply for her via the breast pump. So that kind of leads into the origins of Momease solutions, but I'll save that for after Jennie gets a chance to introduce herself as well.
[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Thank you. Jennie?
[00:04:15] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, so my background is I'm a serial non profit entrepreneur. So I founded two Minnesota based non profits focused on child development and family well being. So mostly doing the business operations and development for those two non profit organizations. The first one is Monarch Montessori School, a traditional children's house Montessori that's really rooted in the literature that supports best pedagogies for optimal child development, as well as Kaleidoscope Learning. That's my second non profit, which is a family community and resource center, just a one stop shop for families to be able to get all the best practices associated with raising their children ages birth to six years old.
I frequently work with the population that is going to be Momease solutions' customer base. So I love working with mothers, women who are pregnant or newly postpartum and are going through the very wonderful, but very precarious kind of transition into motherhood. So that's kind of where my background is. I do not have a medtech background. But I'm somebody who's really passionate about looking at the literature when it's related to child development. So what is the optimal strategy in order to really nurture a person's early development related to cognitive, physical, social, emotional development. I originally got connected with Ashley through Mutual Business Connections and I instantly loved the idea. I saw how it would be used by the women who I currently work with and just really recognized that it was a really special product. So I officially joined the team in 2023.
[00:06:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Nice. Well, congrats. How exciting. Yeah. So I love it. So would you mind telling us a little bit more about Momease and just maybe the origin story.
[00:06:19] Ashley Mooneyham: So yeah. So like I said, I had my daughter in April of 2021. I was able to nurse her without issue for eight weeks during my maternity leave and I was so excited about that because the American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Health Organization, they all recommend exclusive breast milk nutrition through six months of age. To Jennie's point to try to promote the health of our next generation with cognitive ability and various health indications that research shows are improved with that breast milk nutrition. And I really wanted that for my daughter if I could achieve it. I was grateful to not have issues nursing, but when I went back to work, I thought kind of naively that I would be able to use the breast pump to continue to feed her breast milk, even though I was remote and away.
And unfortunately, that was not the case, which is a super common issue with women. I had to pump three or four sessions to get one bottle for my daughter, so I was really working overtime, trying to do enough breast pump sessions to maintain my breast milk supply. And I was sitting at the breast pump for far too long, usually 20 to 30 minutes a session, increasing the suction power to a level that caused discomfort just in my attempt to provide my daughter with the nutrition I felt that she needed. And I was really frustrated by that because I knew, based on my successful nursing journey, that I did provide enough breast milk for her. I simply wasn't able to collect it. So the issue was with the collection mechanism.
And with my background in science, I immediately sought answers. How can I improve this experience, just for me personally, on the onset. And I did find academic studies that showed if you apply a warm compress while using a breast pump, you get more milk in less time. If you use a hand massage technique while using a breast pump, you get more milk in less time. And anecdotally, that was true. If I applied a warm compress, if I put pressure on my breasts while using a suction based breast pump, it worked. And that made sense to me because a nursing infant is doing a lot more than sucking breast milk. They're also using the warmth of their mouths and the pressure of their jaw and hands in a combination to efficiently nurse. So adding these elements back in made perfect sense.
The issue is it's not convenient. Using a breast pump is already not convenient and having all of these extra tasks while using a breast pump certainly wasn't convenient. So I literally went to Google and looked for a product that could warm and massage the breasts while I was using a breast pump in order to maintain these improved results. And I didn't find one. And I was really shocked by that. I was like, "How could this not exist when there is evidence that it works?" And I'm having personal anecdotal experience that it works. I was so disappointed.
And I sat with that disappointment for a couple of months and then realized, "Well, it doesn't exist because people like me just sit disappointed." You kind of have to get up and get going to solve the problems, especially that you see personally. And the whole first year of business before we had a lot of funding in the door, I made sure to broadly collect women's experiences with the breast pump, and I learned really quickly that I was not alone.
Our first customer discovery survey received 1, 200 responses in 24 hours, which is incredible and unexpected. I just put it out over my personal Facebook to start and it got picked up and got a lot of responses. And that alone, I think, really speaks to how passionate women are about wanting a solution and how desperate they are for wanting a solution. And every day that keeps Jennie and I going. Every day that we pitch this, every day that we talk about this, more and more women say how much this is needed and how much they're rooting for us. And that, that's our big motivation.
[00:10:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Wow. That is incredible. Thank you for sharing that story. And even the, I love the personal connection, but then the fact that just within 24 hours, like you said, of your own personal network, you've got this amazing response of all these women saying, "Yes, I am in the same boat or I've experienced this. Please help." I love that. So then Jennie, you're coming into this from your business development, business strategy background. And I'm wondering, how have you been able to to bring Momease along as it continues to grow and opportunities continue to come for it. And then what are you excited about as we go towards the future?
[00:11:06] Jennie Lynch: Yeah. So that's a really good question. Momease is pre launch. So, I'm continuously just having conversations with mothers, continue to get that feedback, that customer discovery. Again, being pre launched most of my focus at the moment is long term business development strategies. So just thinking about those things ahead of time, but also just day to day operational things. I'm definitely excited as we move towards launch of the product. I think that I would love to see this product in people's hands. We're currently prototyping. So just seeing women use it, as well as getting their initial feedback is something I'm just very excited about.
[00:11:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. So in this pre launch stage, I know you have a bazillion things going on, I'm sure, and there's lots to think about and a lot of exciting things happening, but what's the next step for you at this point? You have some funding, it sounds like, but now what's coming up, the very next thing?
[00:12:08] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. So I don't know that we've said explicitly, but just in case anyone isn't aware, we are trying to create a pumping bra with built in warmth and massage. So that's the product that we're seeking to create. And we did receive funding last year from the National Institutes of Health to pursue this, which is really exciting. So the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development awarded us a Phase I grant to do the prototyping that we're currently underway with and achieve our proof of concept ahead of validating it and then launching the product.
So right now we're definitely in that proof of concept prototyping phase. We have seen promising early results that we were hoping to see. And now it's a matter of kind of fine tuning the product at this early stage so that when it hits the market it's more than functional, it's convenient to use. We want this to be very clear that it is a product with integrity that was also designed by a mother for mothers, designed by women for women. I think that is something that this market is looking for, and women's products are booming right now. So I feel like this is right place, right time for us to enter and hit that inflection point.
[00:13:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, congratulations on all of the success so far. I know it's not been an easy road. I'm sure there have been lots of late nights and stressful days, but you're doing it. So that's amazing. And thank you for bringing this to market because it's so needed. And I'm curious, is your goal to be able to provide this directly to consumers? Are you hoping to have an intermediary? What are your thoughts with that? Because I'm sure some people are so excited to go, "When is this going to be real?"
[00:13:59] Ashley Mooneyham: That's such a good question.
[00:14:00] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, absolutely. So we have two ways we would love to enter the market. The first one is traditional business to consumer channels, so sales directly through our website, maybe at brick and mortar stores, big box stores, boutiques, being listed on online retailer websites. Just the traditional ways you can get a consumer good into your hands. The second channel is more business to business. We would love to sell directly to NICU units. We have heard from NICU units or individuals who work in NICU units that this is something that would be really beneficial, as well as we would love to reach out to breast pump manufacturers who might be interested in bundling our product with their breast pumps to have that kit mothers can buy right away that will have a synergistic effect right from the get go. So those are two go to market strategies.
[00:14:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Well, that is very exciting. So as you've been going on this journey, and I'm sure you've had amazing days. I'm sure you've had some discouraging days. Are there any moments that stand out to you as really clarifying to you that you are in the right place at the right time doing what you are meant to do?
[00:15:18] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, absolutely. I think one that I already mentioned was that first customer discovery survey. That's one of the first things I did after formally launching this business. And it's been a through line ever since. It's a touch point that we can constantly go back to that validates why we're doing what we're doing and that it's worth pursuing.
And then shortly after that, I did start participating in pitch competitions where I was able to present this idea more widely. And the first competition that we ever entered was the HyVee Opportunity Summit, which was hosted at US Bank Stadium. And we were selected as, I think, a top nine finalist to pitch from over 900 applicants. And during that pitch contest, we took home grand prize. So out of the top nine, we got the number one prize slot. And I distinctly remember getting down from that stage so shocked that we were able to secure the grand prize our first pitch competition, but feeling so proud that what we're trying to do resonated and literally women came up to us with tears in their eyes.
And I, it just, it was so buoying. It really felt like, "Oh, this is something that matters. It's something that is beyond a solution for just myself." But 97 percent of our survey responders said that they were dissatisfied with the breast pump. And that's such an incredible dissatisfaction rate for such an essential piece of technology.
So those were two big wins for us early on. And then later last year when we were able to receive validation also from this huge federal scientific body that what we're doing is beyond like a feel good mission. It has scientific merit. It has significant potential to impact not only women's health, but human health by nourishing that next generation. That was a big win as well. And we're so excited for all of that collective experience to be really able to dig in this year to the research and development and start to make this idea a reality.
[00:17:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And Jennie?
[00:17:30] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, kind of echoing Ashley, she hit some of our big milestones in 2023. This year, I've had a couple friends and family members who've had little ones, and it's just been really interesting seeing a lot of my friends and how they're coming into motherhood. And how this product is something that they're probably not going to be using it for this child, but maybe in the future. And they're just really excited for us to be able to launch our product and for them to use it in the future. So that's something, just that verbal reassurance from our community is something that I think is what keeps us going.
[00:18:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course, that makes so much sense, and I'm so glad you have that, so much social proof, the stories of the people who are coming up to you, and then you've also, like you said, have this tangible grant that really did help say, "Yeah, this is very important, this is very needed," and I'm sure those things really help on the difficult days, so I'm so glad you have all of that.
But speaking of difficult days, I am wondering, in this journey, I'm sure there have been lots of ups and downs. What are some of the things that you have maybe been surprised about as you have gone about this new journey? And I know, Jennie, there's a lot of entrepreneurial endeavors in your background, but just in general, when you're getting into a new thing, there's always unexpected things that pop up. So just curious as anything come up for you yet?
[00:19:02] Jennie Lynch: Something that I have found unexpected and slightly challenging at times, something that Ashley and I constantly are thinking about is, how we're kind of in this in between space where we're kind of known as a consumer good, yet we are a medical device, and it's been really hard to communicate some of the challenges related to being in that in between space with a lot of either investors or cheerleaders or people who are just interested in our product. We're more complicated than that average consumer good, yet we're not going to be put into the body. We're not as technical as maybe other medical devices that are on the market. So we really are in this in between space and there aren't too many players who are as well, at least that we've come across in our own journey. So that is a weird thing that we've run into is how do we effectively communicate where we are on the market and the importance of the product.
[00:19:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And Ashley?
[00:20:01] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. Jennie hit the nail on the head that continues to be a thorn in our side, but we are getting better and better at navigating this middle ground and explaining that's actually our secret sauce in a lot of ways, that we're not a simple consumer good, and we're not a complicated medical device. We exist in this elegant in between to hopefully be that solution. And then I think just what a lot of founders can relate to, the only other major challenge is fundraising for the effort and being really careful with the funds that we have raised to make sure that we can go as far as possible and really time the spends strategically. So that's been something that we're constantly evaluating, making sure that we're using our funds responsibly and constantly have our eye on future fundraise efforts to make sure that there's no major gap in funding that could hinder our progress. And I will just say having a co founder like Jennie through this experience has made every challenge much more bearable. So, I'm so glad that we get to go through it together. The hard days are much easier having a co founder like Jennie by my side and the good days are even more fun to celebrate.
[00:21:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. So you both are absolute powerhouse women. I got to take a look at your LinkedIn profiles and I was just really admiring everything that you have done in your past, your education, your expertise, and then your commitment to community and the fact that you're still actively volunteering and you're doing all of these things. And it really struck me as not only incredibly impressive, but also I just have to ask, do you sleep?
[00:21:42] Ashley Mooneyham: I mean, I have a two month old at home, so no. But I will say, that gives me extra waking hours in the day, so that's always good. I don't know how Jennie does it.
[00:21:55] Jennie Lynch: Man, I think similar to Ashley, I do have a good support network and I think that makes all the difference. I don't think that I could achieve what I have without the friends and family who continue to uplift me. So that's what keeps me going too.
[00:22:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Good reminder about the importance of community, absolutely. That's phenomenal. What is your top piece of advice you have for other women medtech founders specifically, or women medtech leaders.
[00:22:27] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. I mean, it's something I constantly think about and learned through this journey is that being a woman founder is a strength. It's not a weakness. You don't need to justify being a woman founder. You don't need to justify pursuing a women's health problem with a women's health solution. I actually think all of that is a strength. And the second I stopped defending myself as a founder and defending my product and instead presented it as the opportunity it is and found like minded, passionate individuals like Jennie to join the journey, the more success we had. So I would just encourage all women founders, women entrepreneurs to remind yourself that you are doing something exceptionally valuable and your perspective is exceptionally valuable. And it's not something that you need to make excuses for or feel like you need to be on the back foot about.
[00:23:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Jennie, do you have anything to add to that as well?
[00:23:29] Jennie Lynch: Wow. Yeah, absolutely. The main takeaway that I have since starting entrepreneurship is create a community with people around you who will continue to support you. And mostly what I mean by that is Ashley and I have already established a community, both in Minnesota and nationally, that incorporates women health founders, and the amount of just brainstorming and good ideas that we get bouncing ideas off of one another is really wonderful. And it's great being able to connect with women who are in a similar position.
[00:24:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you both. Yeah, so pivoting the conversation a little bit, just for fun. Imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, could be about what you're currently doing, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:24:27] Ashley Mooneyham: Well, I can give an industry specific answer right away if Jennie wants a couple more minutes to think. This might be the more boring answer, but Jennie leads an exciting life, so she can back end this with something more fun. But like I said, my expertise originally was in helping companies secure that non dilutive grant funding. Honestly, I want to spread that message more to small businesses, because I hear over and over again how much funding ends up being a barrier to small businesses, especially in the earliest stages of ideation and de risking whatever it is that they think matters and should be introduced to the market space. And that ends up stopping so many great ideas from getting a chance even to move forward in the market.
So I am constantly working on this now without a million dollars, but if I had a million dollars I'd love to just be able to spread that message more, especially to the businesses that have that mission and heart behind them. So right now there's that White House initiative, as well as the National Institutes of Health Initiative to fund women's health research. Every female entrepreneur I meet in women's health, you can't get me to stop talking about federal grant funding and pursuing grant funding to really maintain ownership over your idea, ownership over that direction, which is going to be important for any founder, but particularly those that are trying to represent disadvantaged populations or underrepresented populations. You get to maintain your ownership and you get to de risk your idea so that you can move it forward. That's just where my mind goes to right away.
[00:26:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, excellent. Very needed too, so.
[00:26:13] Jennie Lynch: I guess if I had to teach a master class, I can come in with something a little bit more fun. So a couple years back, I spent a lot of time traveling. I was doing the digital nomad thing, so maybe a master class on all the ins and outs that come with how to work. And live on the road and you know how to organize your life a little bit to make that a little bit more streamlined. There was some trial and error for a couple years and I have this wealth of knowledge that's all living in my head, but it would be really cool to bring that to life in a master class, I think.
[00:26:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes, as a digital nomad myself, I fully understand what you're talking about and getting, that learning curve can be a little steep sometimes accidentally you think, "Oh yeah, I'm prepared."
[00:27:03] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, exactly. You never know what, what's going to come up when you're traveling around.
[00:27:09] Lindsey Dinneen: I always say there's never a dull moment. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:27:17] Ashley Mooneyham: Jennie, your turn to go first.
[00:27:20] Jennie Lynch: Sure, I can go first. Yeah, well, I guess if there was something that I would love for, I would love to be known as a very loving person, a kind friend, somebody who's always positive, and gives everybody the benefit of the doubt. I guess a distinct characteristic that I would love to be remembered for is maybe what my partner calls "activator energy." I really love just immediately tackling a project, bringing something from zero to one. So if I had one characteristic, it would be that kind of activator energy characteristic.
[00:27:56] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.
[00:27:58] Ashley Mooneyham: I do too. And that's a perfect answer. Yeah, I agree with Jennie. What matters most are those interpersonal relationships and connections that you have in close community with. Those are the things that matter most to me. It's way more important to be a good wife, good mother, good friend, good daughter in the time that we have. But also obviously, I'm hoping with Momease to leave a legacy that does make an impact in women's health one way or another. And I try to keep that in perspective with our business goals always that any win that we have is a win for women's health. Anything that we achieve is validation that funding women's health is worth it and that this field is worth pursuing. And I hope that it continues to improve after our journey ends with Momease, wherever that ending point is. And I hope that's a way that we can leave our thumbprint outside of our families with something a bit greater.
[00:28:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Those are beautiful answers. Yeah, and then my final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:29:11] Ashley Mooneyham: Well, my answer is easy. I have children, so that's obviously a joy in my life. And another thing that keeps me going every day, I want my kids to know that if they have an idea that you should bet on yourself and pursue it. And I hope that I can model that for them, even in an uncertain, scary landscape like entrepreneurship. So yeah, grateful for my kids. I have a daughter and a son.
[00:29:38] Jennie Lynch: For me, it's just a nice cup of coffee, but immediate smile.
[00:29:44] Lindsey Dinneen: I can relate to that, especially in the morning first thing when you're just like trying to get recombobulated and here we go.
[00:29:52] Jennie Lynch: Absolutely.
[00:29:53] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, that first cup isn't even a smile. It's just necessity. And then if I get an afternoon cup, that's where then the joy comes in.
[00:30:01] Jennie Lynch: Yes.
[00:30:02] Lindsey Dinneen: That's fantastic. That's amazing. Well, thank you both so very much for spending some time with me today and sharing your stories and your advice, and I am so excited to see Momease continue to succeed, and I love what you're doing, and this is so needed, and you have this wide open space for it, and that's insane, but I'm so thankful that you guys are taking the time and the effort and the funds and everything to make it come to life because it is so needed. So, gosh, just thank you for what you're doing.
[00:30:36] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you for being a platform.
[00:30:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, and we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and also thank you for continuing to work to change lives for a better world. We're grateful, and I wish you the most amazing continued success.
[00:31:11] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you.
[00:31:12] Jennie Lynch: Thank you.
[00:31:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am at the moment, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, continue to spread the word about these amazing innovations, and we will catch you next time.
[00:31:31] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dr. Shoreh Ershadi | Founder, ANTIAGING Institute of California | Apoptosis, Clinical Excellence, & Women in Science

Dr. Shoreh Ershadi is the founder of ANITAGING Institute of California and a renowned expert in clinical biochemistry and pharmacology with over 40 years of experience. Dr. Ershadi shares her compelling journey from Iran to the United States, highlighting her unexpected entry into medical technology and the numerous challenges she faced as a woman in science. From setting up clinical labs and pioneering AIDS testing to founding her own antiaging company, Dr. Ershadi discusses her relentless pursuit of scientific innovation and passion for improving human health. The conversation also touches on her entrepreneurial ventures, the role of art in her life, and her vision for a healthier future driven by natural apoptosis-promoting supplements.
Guest links: www.Apoptosis.us | www.facebook.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals | www.instagram.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals | www.threads.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals 
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 037 - Dr. Shoreh Ershadi
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest, Dr. Shoreh Ershadi. With over 40 years of expertise in clinical biochemistry and pharmacology, Dr. Ershadi stands at the forefront of scientific innovation in the field of nutraceuticals and supplements. Board certified by the American Academy of Antiaging Medicine and holding dual doctorate degrees, Dr. Ershadi brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the world. Dr. Ershadi's distinguished credentials, including National Registry in Clinical Chemistry and Toxicology and American Society of Clinical Pathology certifications, underscore her dedication to precision and quality in laboratory practices. Her visionary leadership and unwavering passion for advancing human health has made her a trusted authority in the field.
All right. Well, Shoreh, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to speak with you.
[00:01:51] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you, especially that you're going to talk about medical technology. And that is something that I have been doing or working at for, I would say over 30 years, easy. 1988, I got my license in California. So it's what, 32 years?
[00:02:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. Oh my goodness. Well, this leads perfectly into my first question and that is, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got into medtech?
[00:02:29] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Okay. That is interesting because I was born in Iran and I studied pharmacology. And before I was graduated, the Department of Health in Iran was hiring pharmacists, pharmacologists. So we all went and took the exam and we passed the exam. We were still at the final stages of doing the thesis and going through final stages of graduation. And then they called me and a few other people for an interview. Apparently I had a high mark in the test, which I did not know.
So when we went for the interview, and I went to an American school and then later to a British school in Iran, so I was speaking English. At the interview, there was a gentleman who was back in Iran from United States, and he was a PhD in clinical biochemistry, and he asked me to read something in English. And I read it, and he thought that I had it by heart or something, so he flipped the book and found a more difficult page and said, "Okay, read this," and I read that, and he said, "Okay, I'm hiring you for the reference lab."
I had absolutely no clue what he was talking about, what was reference lab. I had no intention to even work for Department of Health because I was not even graduated at that time. And then they said, "Okay, start on such and such date." And when I went there the first day, he said he spoke in English and he said, "You're overqualified." Oh my God. What? I mean, it was funny. Without even planning to get into laboratory, I got into the reference lab of Department of Health. And what he was planning to do was to bring College of American Pathologists, the proficiency testing to all the laboratories in Iran. And he wanted someone who would speak English and who could communicate.
So first day of my job, I wrote a letter to College of American Pathologists and I said, "Hi, hello, I'm Shoreh Ershadi, I want to buy a thousand proficiency kits." And of course they responded. So just like that, I got into clinical laboratory. And I became the Director of the Quality Control for Department of Health. And that was before the revolution. So, that was my exciting start into laboratory.
[00:05:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that. And
[00:05:28] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Not voluntarily, but serendipitously, yes.
[00:05:34] Lindsey Dinneen: There you go. So then at some point, you came to the U. S. and was that transition really difficult? Was it frustrating? Were you excited? Nervous?
[00:05:47] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: There was a part in between before coming to U. S. There was another test by W. H. O., World Health Organization. So I took that test and I passed that test and I got a scholarship to go to medical school in England to do a master's degree. And when I went there, I told them, "I already have a doctorate in pharmacology. I don't want master's. I want to do PhD." And after a few weeks, they said, "Okay, fine, go to PhD. You don't need to do master."
So I was in England for about four years. I did my PhD in clinical biochemistry. And I went back to Iran. That was exactly during the revolution. So while I was studying in England, the country in Iran was on fire. It was, things going crazy everywhere. But I went back and I got married. I had my son in Iran, and I was working in a clinical laboratory in one of the best hospitals in Iran, and it got very difficult for women to work. They were saying, " Now you have to wear a scarf. Now, you can't see male patients, you can only talk to female patients." It was not right.
So, 1984, I came to United States, I came to California, and with some friends in Iran who had a clinical laboratory, and they were here before me and had started a lab in Orange County, California. I started a branch of the lab in Westwood, in Los Angeles. So that was my first job or position and that was my entrepreneurial side, which now I wouldn't dare to start a life, but then I did.
[00:07:51] Lindsey Dinneen: You didn't know the difference then.
[00:07:53] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, yes, I didn't know. I mean, it was a lot easier, I would say. At that point. The lab was not even accepting Medicare or Medi Cal. It was private insurance. I was doing the billing. I was getting the information. I was drawing the patients. I was separating the samples and sending them to the reference lab that was actually running the tests. But I was doing stat CBCs and I was in a medical building and so all the doctors were so nice to send the samples down to me. It worked. So
[00:08:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Oh my.
[00:08:34] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Amazing. Yes. Now it sounds really amazing. It's surreal in a way. Yeah.
[00:08:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, so with that lab and embracing this entrepreneurial journey, and I'm so thankful it worked out so well for you, but were there any moments where you just thought, okay, I've, I, you have such an amazing background. You're so highly educated, you're brilliant. And then you're starting this entrepreneurial journey, which is kind of a different skill set in a way. How was that transition of becoming kind of your own boss and being in charge of everything?
[00:09:12] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: That was pure ignorance. I mean, now I can say then, I thought I knew what I was doing, but it was a fast learning. First that I was in a different country, that I had never been in the United States. Second, that I had a three year old son that I brought with me and my then husband never came, so I got a divorce and I became a single mom. So, and nobody else was from my family was here. So it was very difficult because I had to take him to daycare and then come work and then go pick him up. And then there was a war, the Iraq war had started in Iran and my parents were in Iran and I was going through a divorce, so it was turmoil. And I had to work and learn in a way it was good because it didn't give me time to think about anything else. It was just forward, no looking sideways, no looking backwards. It was just moving forward.
But then again, something else happened that made it even more interesting. One of the days that I was at the lab, some guy came and said, "CDL, Central Diagnostic Lab, is looking for a technical director and they've asked me to come and talk to you." I had absolutely no clue if anyone knew me or knew of me or it was the, I mean, a lot of things happened, which, I mean, I'm happy now, but then it changed my life tremendously.
And I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this in this detail. So, Lindsey, I would say you're the first person I'm telling the story of my life. But anyways, I went for an interview and I got hired right away. I had the lab, so I hired someone to do the work that I was doing in the lab. And then I started working at CDL, Central Diagnostic Labs, which was the largest privately owned lab in the United States at that time. There were 1, 200 employees. So that was a very interesting experience on its own because I was introduced to a world that I did not even know what was going on.
So, and that was during AIDS testing. Bio-Rad had just come up with Western blot testing and we did the clinical trial, which was very easy in those days. We had AIDS patients and we had a lot of AIDS samples accumulated or saved frozen and we used them to validate the Western blot by Bio-Rad and I went on National TV 1988 and I said, "CDL is the first lab in the world that is doing a confirmation for HIV AIDS testing." So then, that was major.
[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
[00:12:43] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: But then, then my family came. My father passed away here. It was, again, a lot of complications going on. And one of the other people that I knew asked me to go and partner with them in a lab. Again, my entrepreneurial part took over and I went for the partnership, and I started from scratch. I started Path Labs practically from scratch. There were two pathologists working with Los Alamitos Hospital, and I went there and I started a lab from just buying test tubes, buying, from absolutely nothing. I was there for six years, I think. six or eight years with Path Labs. That was not so successful.
After that, I went to Specialty Labs, which is now Quest. Specialty wanted to start a toxicology lab. So, Path Lab was sold. But there was no money made with the partnership and all that. So that was not a very successful six, eight years of my life. Specialty was good. I went to Specialty and I started Department of Toxicology. I don't know if you remember or you were familiar with specialty. Dr. Peters was there and he was the founder, James Peters. He did only immunology testing. They would receive samples and send out everything else to other labs and only do the immunological tests or some specialty tests.
When I started the toxicology department, we started getting samples from all over the world. We were running heavy metals and all that. We had an ICP MS and I started running ICP, and the main test that I developed there was measuring iron in the liver biopsy of patients with hemochromatosis. So we would get one spot, in tip of the needle of the liver and then do a measurement and measure the amount of toxicity with iron in hemochromatosis, which was great. I wrote a paper and we were working with Mayo Clinic and they developed the test. So that was very exciting. Then I started the automated lab because all the chemistry. And all the hematology was going out, was sent out. So that brought a lot of money into the lab, but that was not my lab. It was Dr. Peter's lab. It was wonderful. It was nice. But he was the entrepreneur there.
So in the year 2000, I started ANTIAGING Institute of California. After passing the specialist chemist license in California, I got National Registry in Certified Chemistry, Certified Toxicology, and then I took the board exam with American Academy of Antiaging Medicine. And that was again entrepreneurial and I started the company, that would be 25 years ago. I've done a lot of consultation. I've been director of lab during COVID. I went back to city health. And I was Director of City Health running 4, 000 COVID patients a night for airports, for schools, for traveling, for a lot of stuff.
And then I worked with Siemens Healthineers on regulations for IVDR. So all the kits that Siemens had, over 700 reagent kits that were sold to the laboratories, they need to get the CE mark to be able to be sold in Europe under the new IVDR regulations. And a lot of it had to go through FDA as well because FDA had to approve if there were any changes made to the kits. So I've done a lot of regulation works. I've done a lot of hands on COVID tests, covered it all.
Actually, something else that was very interesting. And this, for MedTechs, I would think this would be interesting to know that it's not just one position. And there's so much you can do, if you want to expand your horizon. For about a year, I helped set up extremely high complex laboratory for testing mother's milk, for making milk bank from mother's milk for NICU for children who were born early and the formulas did not work with them. Some of them were so tiny, less than a pound. And so mother's milk bank, it's called Prolacta Bioscience, the company. And I worked there to establish the clinical lab and to get a license for clear and stuff like that. So.
[00:18:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!
[00:18:21] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: A lot of good work going into my up and down career, I would say.
[00:18:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Well, first of all, I'm so honored that you were willing to share so much with me. That is. I really appreciate it. And I really appreciate you being willing to talk about some of the amazing moments you've had and the really high, " Yay, we did this," but also some of the moments where it was a little bit tougher and even you being honest and transparent about, the one company didn't do as well as you would have hoped, but you kept going and you are a living testament to resilience and adaptation.
[00:18:59] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: There is no other choice. I would hope that people would have many choices. I mean, you always make choices in life. Even now, this is a choice to talk to you and I appreciate the opportunity because, if I would choose or if I wouldn't know about you, that would be a totally different episode in my life. So I'm open to take chances. You can say that with my experience, living in three different continents and moving and just leaving Iran and coming to us with a three year old, not being here ever before. And then, just jumping in and, but there was no other choice except for moving forward, or we can say, except for success. Because failure was not an option. What would I do? There was nowhere to go back. Sometimes you may have an option to make a U turn and say, "Okay, I don't like this. I want to do something else. I want to stay home." There was no option, no going back. So it was only forward.
[00:20:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. So, coming here and like you said, having to move forward and I appreciated what you said, you kind of, you couldn't look to the side, you couldn't look back. You had to keep moving forward. How did you go about building a community that could support you, that you could be friends with, and colleagues with, and feel supported coming in from, not having that.
[00:20:36] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: And that was not very difficult. There were many difficult times during that, that I mean, I don't mind talking about it, being a woman, being a young woman, being from a different background there was a lot of resistance. And I see that today as well. I mean, I can't say, "Oh, here I'm in L. A. and Los Angeles is so easy." It's not. I am hoping that women would not maybe experience all the difficulties that I went through. But we're talking about 40 years ago. I came to The States actually July 22nd would be exactly 40 years. I left Iran July 1st, 1984. So this is the 40th anniversary.
Being a woman, I thought, when I went to England one of the first things, the professor was my direct supervisor when I worked with him. And I know you can see my face. This is 40 years later. I have no claims, but the professor told me, "You're a beautiful woman. Why do you want to study? Why are you here for PhD?" And I thought that was the greatest insult in my life. So I fought with that professor for four years.
[00:22:15] Lindsey Dinneen: No, I'm sorry.
[00:22:17] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: That wasn't easy, but it was so difficult to prove that I am not just a woman or a pretty girl or a young girl or a young woman, or. That was a major fight. I would say that was as difficult as fighting the revolution in Iran, because you wouldn't expect a British professor to say that to you. And I was the only girl, a PhD student, all the others were guys, and this was medical school. And to me, that was very surprising because when I went to University of Tehran, we had probably more girls than guys in the class. Girls were very prone to education in Iran, and they still are. There's still, I think, 60, 65 percent girls in universities, even here. But to hear that was very difficult. That experience repeated itself. in United States over and over till today that I can say I don't feel old. I'm antiaging, but now that I'm an old woman, I still feel that I have to prove myself that I am equal. And sometimes I would say I'm better, but, just to be honest and modest, you want to be treated equal. And that is very difficult.
[00:23:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And As much as I would wish things were improving rapidly, I'm not so sure that they are, but what have you found has been helpful in terms of, helping people understand who might come with a bias, but who, helping those people understand, "No I have this education. I am very capable." What are some strategies that you have found that have worked really well for you?
[00:24:22] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Not many. I have to be honest with you. I mean, if there are a few people, few women, a few even men who are, would be following the conversation, I want them to know that this is not easy. And maybe a part of my success is that I'm a fighter. And I didn't surrender, but I didn't smile my way up. I fought with everyone that went in that direction. And I don't want to get into details, but many of the stronger men would think that if they flirt with you, if they take you out, if they buy dinner for you, then you're going to do what they say.
And my story is, just, I have my guards up and I fought. I wouldn't recommend people to fight. Maybe they can find a better solution. I did not find many. Maybe the reason of working separate and starting my own company, maybe one of the major reasons was that I would not have to say yes to power that I did not want to say yes. I worked very hard. I worked hard, long hours. Medtechs, you have to stay there to get the results out.
One Christmas. I stayed from December 24th for I would say 72 hours in the lab, maybe two, three hours shower and sleep and go back because we had a lot of toxicology tests that were waiting and results had to go out. And the probe in the I-C-P-M-S was broken. There was no one to replace it during Christmas. It was, we had to borrow from somewhere, FedEx shipping it. Those things happen, you know that, and you have to work hard. It wasn't an easy journey to say, "Oh, I worked four hours a day." And they said, "Thank you. You're so good. Go home." It wasn't like that.
[00:26:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Right. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. And so one thing that was really interesting to me, I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and I see that art is a big part of your life in addition to the science and I saw you listed painting and sculpting and I'm wondering how-- well a couple of things-- how did you first get involved in art? And secondly, do you feel that is helpful in terms of having a sort of therapeutic thing to do that kind of maybe helps with some of those harder moments where it's a little frustrating?
[00:27:23] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Very helpful. But I was as a kid, I started painting at a very young age. And I was always coloring and painting and making things and all that. And my father, a very educated father, he had two master's degree from a University of Texas and came back to Iran. And that's why, we spoke English and we went to English school. So my father was educated and open minded, I can say. But he always said that "You should study art. And don't go to medicine, you'll get old." He passed away in 1988, and I always, when I started Antiaging, I always said "Okay, if you're looking, you will see that I'm antiaging, I didn't age, I went to medical school, I did all the studies."
But my logic, first that I love to do this, I mean, it wasn't just you know, forcing myself. I love science. And to this day I do a lot of research. I play with science. You can see the labels are all fancy. I do the paintings. I do all of that. But my logic, more than being scientific, was that this was a career and art would not be a self supporting career, even at younger age. But I always said that if I was a doctor, I could paint, but if I was an artist, I could not do the scientific part or the medical part that I was interested in.
But after the divorce, I was in a relationship for 14 years. And I was working hard, raising a son, being a single mother and all that. When that relationship ended after 14 years, the art just popped out. I started painting, sculpting. It was not under control. You can see that, things happen to me, things come out in a certain period. Maybe, I push them down, force them to stay within me, and then they just pop out in different directions. So art came out itself. But there was a period in between that there was no art. Maybe there was too much stress. Maybe there was a lot of, and right now there's no art. Right now it's more entrepreneurial, starting, scientific, all that. But the art pops out every now and then.
[00:30:07] Lindsey Dinneen: That's great. Yeah. So speaking of, what you're doing now, I was wondering if you could share a little bit about your company and maybe what you're excited about for its future as you continue along this path.
[00:30:19] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Okay. That is, this is now where all the passion is. So everything that I have forced inside for all my life is now just coming out into Apoptosis. Apoptosis is a Greek word and it means "falling of the leaves." In science apoptosis, if you Google it, you'll see it means "programmed cell death." So in our bodies in creation or creator or whichever you wanna put it, and I'm sure being a medtech and all the audience, they know there are thousands of reactions inside the body are happening for me just to sit here and breathe and talk. There are thousands and thousands of enzymes and catalysts and metals and oh, whatever is going on.
Programmed cell death or apoptosis is a main part of survival. So it's the future of antiaging because we all-- first of all that life expectancy is much longer now. Longevity is longer and younger people do not want to get old. So, at some point I would say my grandmother's generation and my mother is now 95 years old and she's, thank God, healthy and walking and all that, but even she does not want to get old. So, the image of being old and sick is combined together.
But we can age without being sick, without getting Alzheimer's, without losing our memory, without getting all these different kinds of diseases. And one major problem is cancer that was much higher with older people and now the statistic is showing that cancer is happening in younger and younger generations. So what apoptosis does is that it's a program in the body. I did not make it. I wish I did, but it's happening all the time. And apoptosis is getting rid of cancer cells, getting rid of damaged cells, getting rid of neurons that cannot connect and synapses with other neurons to take the message over. So if we encourage apoptosis, then all the damaged cells are removed just like falling leaves. They're removed from the body and they're replaced with new energized healthy new cells.
Every 10 years, our entire body is regenerated. So why do we get old? We should always stay at a 10 year age. So at 20 years old, we have recycled cells that even though we're growing, growth and youth is defined as between 20 to 25. From 25 to 30, it's sort of stable. There's a plateau. After 30, we start the aging process. So now, as 30 to 60, is still considered not so deep slip going down. It's sort of a plateau up to 60. And then after 60, 70, 80, 90, people are beginning to age. And it shows, I mean, with different diseases, with wrinkles, with memory loss, with all that.
So what I'm doing, I'm using nature's product, plant based products, and this has been proven in science that these plants support apoptosis. So, as we get older, just like all the other reactions, apoptosis does not happen at its ultimate way that it should happen. But if we encourage it, for example, we have here, this one is brain beet. This is all beet roots, and it's an organic product. It's all plant based, but it releases nitric oxide. And it works the same way that Viagra works, but it opens all the arteries, it opens the circulation to the brain, to the heart, so why not use it? Why not promote apoptosis the way nature has programmed it in our body, just help it to work better. So that is all my passion right now.
[00:35:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Excellent. Well, I love that. Thank you for sharing a little bit about it. I'm excited for our listeners to go and learn more about it and, see how they can maybe also take part in the antiaging movement.
[00:35:41] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes, they can partner with us and I would be thrilled. Actually, this is something that maybe I have learned during the long life experience, is that the more partners you have, the more friends you have, the more you share your knowledge, the better it is. Because at some point, it was like people wanted to keep everything to themselves and they didn't want to share or, but right now it's totally different. If they go to Apoptosis.us, they can go to the science section, they can read the papers. And if they would like to partner, I'll be thrilled to work with as many people as possible and take the message out. Yeah, this is a healthy message. This is something that we should all be talking about.
[00:36:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed, we should. Yes. Thank you. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a master class on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach?
[00:36:56] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, the million dollar would be great.
[00:36:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed.
[00:37:00] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes. Yeah. Would we all want that. But yes, I think that right now, as I said, I would use the million dollars to talk about apoptosis all over because I see even young children, every time I see St. Jude's children, and thank you for your donation to Save the Children. I admire that. And I'm hoping that all the children in the world would have a good, healthy future. The world is crazy. You can look at it right now and see that, I can say my experience has been crazy. It doesn't get any better. It's always up and down. Things are happening all over everywhere in the world. And I would like to talk about health, talk about antiaging, talk about Apoptosis and educate more and more of the young people to learn and to avoid all the toxins that we are creating and we have created, with what we're doing with industry and go back to a plant based life, go back to nature, enjoy nature, go back to art, if possible, all the good things that we can do with our lives.
[00:38:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:38:29] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Oh, wow. That's a very difficult... a fighter? Survivor? Yep. Strong women? I would support women all the way. Now in Iran, they're saying, Woman Life Freedom. I'm sure you've heard about that. And I cannot tolerate, to see women covered all over with a window to see outside. To me, that is very disturbing. So I would like to see equal opportunity for women and I would like to maybe be remembered as a survivor.
[00:39:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. And then, final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:39:24] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Oh, my granddaughter and my grandson. Yes, I have a five year old granddaughter. Her name is Julia and she is my sunshine. She is my life. The grandson is three months old. He's still too young, but he's getting there.
[00:39:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Aw!
[00:39:48] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Getting emotional.
[00:39:51] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm so glad. It's that's beautiful. That's wonderful.
[00:39:56] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes, that is continuation of the fight. That is when you see that what you've done is worth the fight, worth the hard work.
[00:40:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Well, this has been amazing. I so appreciate you telling your story and sharing some of it that maybe you haven't done before, and that's I feel very honored.
[00:40:23] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes.
[00:40:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Thank you for trusting me.
[00:40:28] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, thank you for bringing all of this out. This has been sitting there suffocating, maybe.
[00:40:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:40:37] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you.
[00:40:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And we are so honored, you mentioned this, but to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:41:06] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you so much, and thank you for having me, and thank you for making me tell the story. Thank you, Lindsey.
[00:41:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And thank you also so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we'll catch you next time.
[00:41:29] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.