The Leading Difference

Nile Harris | CEO, HVG Executive Solutions | Balancing Strategy & Execution, Building High-Performing Teams, & MedTech Advancements

Nile Harris, a seasoned leader with two decades of experience in the MedTech industry, is the founder and CEO of HVG Executive Solutions and currently serves as a director in the life sciences practice at Alvarez & Marsal. Nile shares her diverse career journey from financial services to MedTech, including roles at Medtronic and Abbott, and her current work in management consulting. Emphasizing the value of lifelong learning, Nile discusses her philosophy on leadership, blending strategy with tactical execution, and the importance of adapting rapidly. She also reflects on pivotal moments, like nearly quitting due to the emotional challenges in medtech sales, and her passion for closing healthcare disparity gaps. 
Guest links: https://gapdemystified.com | https://hvg.llc
Charity supported: Opportunity International
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 043 - Nile Harris
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Nile Harris. Nile is a highly skilled and versatile leader who has made significant impact in the medtech industry for two decades from the C suite to the operating room and companies such as Medtronic and Abbott. Her agility was forged through a successful cross functional career, spanning corporate strategy and development, product marketing, field sales and marketing, strategic market insights, commercialization, market access, and executive coaching. Nile is an expert advisor and mentor for Life Science Tennessee and the Nashville Entrepreneur Center focused on early stage startups. She is the CEO and Founder of HVG Executive Solutions and currently serves as Director in the life sciences practice at Alvarez and Marsal.
All right. Well, thank you so much for being here, Nile. I'm so excited to speak with you today.
[00:01:48] Nile Harris: Thank you. I'm happy and excited to be here as well.
[00:01:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind starting off by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and what led you to MedTech.
[00:02:03] Nile Harris: Yeah. Interesting story. Happy to share my journey to MedTech. I tripped into it and loved it. I began my career out of undergrad in financial services, actually interned all through undergrad and financial services. And I loved being on a trading floor-- I was actually a licensed broker at one point-- loved working on trading floors. I'm originally from Chicago, worked at the Board of Trade, Chicago Board of Options Exchange, but it wasn't a cultural fit. And I felt like I wanted to give more or put more out into the world other than making more money, essentially.
And I went to business school at the University of Michigan and did my internship at Lily in Indianapolis and absolutely loved healthcare. And it had never occurred to me that healthcare was an option. And I spent my summer there as IT Project Manager supporting clinical trials. And I was like, I thought this was just amazing. And so I was recruited to Medtronic coming out of Michigan and they had an IT rotation, leadership rotation program. They're sort of a internal consulting group. And I was in that program for two years. And when I came out of that program, I went to the strategy and corporate development group within Medtronic. And that's when I really saw what we did as a company there. I really have more exposure to the products, the lives that we were saving, and the impact that we were having. And I had really no idea what it took to get a product from bench to bedside. Like, what does it take to get a product designed and into a patient?
And I decided to go from corporate strategy and development to field sales and marketing. So I was like, I thought that there was no better way to learn it than just to roll up my sleeves and get into it. And so I went from making PowerPoints and Excel spreadsheets to being out in the field. So I went from being in Minneapolis to Nashville, where I was doing Therapy Development Specialist. So it was a hybrid between sales and marketing. And I spent a lot of time in hospitals. And the part of my job was essentially to grow the pie for thoracic and abdominal aortic aneurysm stent grafts, and then grow our piece of the pie. So I was in surgeries, but I was also doing strategy and sort of marketing and attracting customers and refer referral patterns. And it was great. This was like, this was magical to me. And I had no idea before I got into Medtronic that this was a world that was even open to me. And so I just got deeper into it. I did product management, did value based healthcare and pricing.
I did a stop for a couple of years in K 12 education. I'm very passionate about closing the health, wealth, and education disparity gap in America. And so I was a Broad Resident for the system management of school systems. And so I led strategy for a charter school system in Nashville, but went back into working with, with life science companies at a small consulting firm, and then was doing some independent consulting, started doing executive coaching, specifically within medtech for those people who are trying to get to that next level of leadership and trying to figure out how do you run multi generational teams? And then I was at Abbott for a little bit as a Global Director there and built a team there. And now I do management consultant. And so I've been in medtech now for 20 years. And what I love about being a consultant is that I get to take all of those experiences and how companies bring innovations to life.
[00:06:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing about your background. What an amazing breadth of experience you have. And also I love the thread of your lifelong learning and curiosity. And, oh my gosh. I mean, so I looked at your, LinkedIn profile and I was like, okay, so you have a BA, a BS, an MEd, and an MBA. So clearly education.
[00:06:50] Nile Harris: I do I believe education is important and so the BS in finance and the BA in communications happened because at the University of Illinois, you can get a BA in Finance or a BS in Finance. And so I went the BS route, but it was very technical. We had these highly technical economic classes, statistical modeling, all these things. There weren't a lot of soft skill classes, and I wanted to incorporate that into my experience. And then I realized, well, if I earned a certain number of hours, I could be a dual degree versus dual major. And my junior year, I had no idea, but my junior year, I got this letter from the university saying that all of my advanced placement classes from high school transferred and I had a semester's worth of additional hours. So I spent an additional summer after I finished one degree and then I was able to finish the second degree. So I did both in four years.
[00:07:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Holy cannoli. Okay.
[00:07:54] Nile Harris: I'm a lifelong learner. I believe you need to always be learning. And the curiosity is, I think a lot of times I've gotten the feedback of, "Well, you're kind of all over the place." But not really. I am curious about what people do and how they do their jobs. And I would, when I was in strategy and development, my role was to lead the strategic planning process, and I had access to all of the business leaders, all of the presidents, all of the leaders that they worked with. And that was just awesome. That in itself was just a college education. I had ready access to ask them about their businesses.
But I also asked him, "Well, how can I be a better partner for you? If I'm in corporate, how can I be a better partner for you?" And one of the things that came up over and over again was, "Understand my business better. I understand that you have to run the process and you're focused on getting all of the parts and pieces together. But what would help me is if more people in corporate understood my business." And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to go into sales."
[00:09:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Wow, that is so incredible. And, leadership and management, and now with your executive coaching, obviously that's a been a running theme and will continue to be. And I'm really curious what is maybe your top couple pieces of advice for those who are looking to either become better leaders or to even start being a leader?
[00:09:32] Nile Harris: That is a great question. I think, first of all, I counsel people to develop your personal leadership philosophy. What type of leader do you want to be? What is the legacy that you want to leave with people? What is it that you want them to remember you for? For me, it was being a servant leader. I see myself as, "People don't work for me. I work for them." My job is to remove obstacles, build them up, set a vision, set the container in which they work and then support them in that. Set the example, model the example and and I always say, you know, the book "Leaders Eat Last." Well, I say, "Leaders eat last and they're the first to the fire." And so you develop that philosophy and talk to people. Like I said, I had access to some amazing leaders and I watched them and I talked to them and I asked them and so, interview people, talk to people who you think are great leaders.
The second thing I would say is learn from people who you think are not great leaders. Let them teach you about what you don't want to be as a leader. Right? And the third thing is talk to people. I had one mentor who used to say his version of a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which was, "You can't lead without the consent of the followers. Find out what the followers need and give them that." And leadership is for the people who are following you. Promotions or accolades or rewards are for you as an effective leader, right, for getting results. The leadership is what you are providing to others.
[00:11:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. I think especially your middle point about learning from leaders that you don't look up to, but that have actually a lot to teach you is such a good point too, because, in general, we look up to the people that we go, "Oh my goodness, I love the way that this person leads. I really admire what they bring to the table." And then, that's great, but it is also such an experience to learn from somebody that doesn't have maybe the leadership qualities that you aspire to have. And so you're able to go, "Okay, so this is what doesn't work. Let me figure out what does."
[00:11:58] Nile Harris: Exactly. And even the leadership style, even if it doesn't work for you, even if it doesn't work for 95 percent of the organization that person has been put in charge of, that there's something that they do that you might like. So don't necessarily throw the baby out with the bathwater and just say, "Oh, they're a terrible leader." What they're doing something, they did something to be able to get in that, into that position. Learn from that as well.
[00:12:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Ooh, taking it a step further. I love it. You know, one thing I really enjoy-- oh, I very much enjoyed reading your LinkedIn profile, by the way-- but one thing that really stood out to me, and I would love if you could talk a little bit about was somebody at some point told you that you have an amazing ability to "seamlessly switch between strategy and tactical execution." Could you speak a little bit to that? That is so cool.
[00:12:51] Nile Harris: So this is funny. This is a very funny thing. So that was a manager who I did not get along with. We did not see eye to eye. And we had a facilitator come into our team meeting one day and help us to figure out how do we work together and collaborate as a team. Like, how do we pull out the gifts right in each other? And so the facilitator went person to person and asked, "What's your gift? What's your gift? What's your gift?" And so when he got to me, I said, "Oh, my gift is my organizational skills. I'm very organized and I can connect all these dots."
And so my manager, who I did not get along with, says, "Your gift is effortlessly going from strategy to tactical execution. You can be in the clouds and then on the ground. And it is a clear stream and it is effortless." And everybody in the room was like, "Yeah, well, where did you get organization from?" I was like, "Wait, where'd you get that from?" I didn't see that in myself. It didn't, it didn't occur to me that's what I was doing. When they pointed it out, I didn't realize it was a gift. Because I just do it. And then they were like, "Not everybody can do that." And I thought it was so odd that this person who I had sort of like this ongoing strife with was the one to point it out.
[00:14:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's irony for you, but what a gift though, because then yeah, to understand, "Oh, this isn't something..." I think that happens a lot where you get to it's really helpful to have somebody who's outside perspective who can say, "Actually, this is your superpower because most people can't do what you think just comes naturally to everyone." If only.
[00:14:51] Nile Harris: Yes. And 'cause a lot of times I actually got this question, somebody else was going through my LinkedIn profile and they were like, "Well, how did you develop that skillset?" And I told him, "You know, I didn't do it intentionally. I didn't set out to say,' I'm going to go from strategy to execution effortlessly.'" I think it was the act of doing it. So being able to say, "Well, I don't want to be in financial services, but now I have that financial skill and acumen. I'm going to leverage it to change industries." And then being in this tactical position of putting together models and PowerPoints. And I was putting together PowerPoints for like our executive committee.
So I'm this very, I'm doing something very tactical, but at a strategic level. And then to go from that to say, "Well, I want to really understand how these things connect together." All right. And so I go to sales. And so I think it was just the, I followed the trail of the curiosity and I learned something along the way by doing that. And so it ultimately, it just sort of naturally, I think cultivated what I do know that I'm really good at is seeing patterns and connecting dots. And I think it just sort of came from that.
[00:16:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think, to your point of you having demonstrated your willingness to continue to learn and to step into different roles, so that you were able to continue to expand your knowledge and your skill sets, I mean, you know, it's funny. And I know a lot of people talk about the idea of generalist versus specialist. And being a generalist does have a lot of advantages in terms of, when you have this crazy diverse skillset and even experience in multiple industries, then all of a sudden you can draw from, "Oh, you know what? I remember this really random thing back in when I was doing financial services that actually would really apply here. I don't, I wonder if anyone has ever thought about that!" And then you keep connecting those dots, like you said, so.
[00:17:03] Nile Harris: Exactly. And that's exactly how it happens in my brain. Right? Like my brain will reach back to, "Remember when you worked on this project and you did this really random thing." And I'm like, "Yeah!" My brain's like, "It applies here." I'm like, "Okay." But I did Strength Finders and one of the strengths, it was described as, I didn't necessarily agree with the word that they use, but when I read the description, in the description, it said, "I am a collector of information."
And I'm like, yes! I have every notebook that I used to take notes for work. I have every notebook going back to my first job out of college. And I use Evernote to collect, literally collect articles across the internet. If I'm like, "Oh, this is interesting," I'll clip it into Evernote. And so now I've got sort of this encyclopedia of information. And so if I want to, think about, "Oh, I read this article about this medtech company that was doing this thing," I can search my little encyclopedia and find out. So that also is the whole connecting the dots. And Steve Jobs had a, and I'm going to butcher the quote, but he had a quote about "being innovative and being creative is about having enough experiences that you can connect."
[00:18:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Oh my goodness. Yes. I cannot agree more, and I think the ability to be creative does often come from being able to draw from lots and lots of different sources and then putting them together in a new way. So, oh my gosh, I love this So, you know another thing that stood out in your profile was, you have a wonderful ability to "plan meticulously and then adapt rapidly," and obviously your career path has really demonstrated that but I'm wondering is that in particular a skill set that you developed over time, or have you always had a tendency towards very careful planning, but at the same time holding those plans loosely enough that you can adapt quickly?
[00:19:21] Nile Harris: Yeah, there's a little bit of both. It's inherent in me to want to plan, want to know where things are. That just gives me a sense of comfort. I did not always adapt rapidly. That was working in the strategy and corporate development, working with a bunch of C suite, the CEO, the COO, the presidents of all the businesses, adapting rapidly was a requirement. And things would change super fast. The meeting might start off about one topic and then it ends on a totally different topic. So having to pivot, having to go. But then that also helped me with, "Okay, I'm going to have a plan a and plan B and a plan C," because then I started to learn how to anticipate and I would know, "Okay, if we're going to go through this particular presentation, which is about this piece of the strategic plan, it could go one of three ways. And I want to be prepared for all three ways." And so over time, I became known for my ability to pivot real quick or have something in my back pocket. So people would always then be like, "Oh, Nile, we know that you have a plan B. We know that."
And we were doing a sales meeting. I worked under the president of the cardiovascular business, and we were doing a sales meeting and his video or presentation clip, whatever was on this sort of --this was a long time ago. So it wasn't transferred digitally. It had to physically be burned onto a tape or a CD or some medium. And I had to physically transport it with me from Minneapolis to Las Vegas, where the meeting was. And I said, " Could you make another one so I have a backup?" And the guy was like, "Come on." And I was like, "Nope." So I gave the first copy to the person I was supposed to hand it off to. Get to Las Vegas, and they called me over to the hall for rehearsal. And they're like, "Hey, we can't find the first copy." And I was like, "No worries." I pull out the second copy out of my little bag. And the president of the business was like, "Yep, that's Nile." And they were sitting there and they said, "Yeah, the president, he wasn't worried at all. Like we were freaking out and he was like, 'Nah, just call Nile.'"
[00:21:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh.
[00:21:37] Nile Harris: And they were like, "Wow." And he was like, "I told you." And so then being in sales is nothing but adapting rapidly. That is what, that is all day, every day. So that adapting rapidly was, it was taught. But I think being planful was my natural inclination.
[00:21:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, what a great reputation, too, to have. "Just call Nile. It'll be great. It'll be fine."
[00:22:03] Nile Harris: "It'll be fine. Nile's got covered."
[00:22:05] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. So what are you really looking forward to maybe both personally and professionally in the next couple of years?
[00:22:15] Nile Harris: Now that I'm in a bigger management consulting firm not doing the independent piece, but I'm part of this bigger entity, there is so much happening in medtech and medical device and life science in general, with generative AI, health care equities, just so much happening. And I think that we are reaching a really a big pivot point also with like digital health care and collecting data and on patient care, predictive medicine. We are at this next evolution of care, and I'm really excited to help usher that in by working with other, with companies, with innovators in this space. The AI with imaging and streamlining workflows and helping to close healthcare disparity gaps, to be able to contribute to that in a much deeper way that you can't when you are a independent consultant.
The other piece is, I really love helping to build those high performing teams. And I, there's like with coaching, I love that aha moment, that moment when somebody is like, "Oh, wow." That moment I had when my manager said my gift is going from strategy to execution. I love helping other people have that moment. So I'm looking to help build that next level of leaders that will be better leaders than I am, better leaders than I had. And then that the next stage for me is how do I again, take everything I've learned and pay that forward. , leave a legacy.
That's, and I might be talking about like, it might seem like I feel like I'm old because in two years I'm still going to be working. I'm still going to be doing things, but that's when I feel you start to get into the part of your career where you're leaving that mark, you're leaving that legacy. That's the thing that we want to know Nile for in the medtech space. And then really also outside of work, more personally is, I feel very strongly about the health, wealth and education disparity gap and America and being able to contribute to health and equity where we have two demographics of people who get a disease at the same, same rate, but they don't have the same outcomes, the same treatment outcomes. Like, why is that? So how can I contribute to that?
[00:24:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are all wonderful things to be thinking about and working towards. So yeah, I really appreciate just-- you talked about how you are a servant leader, but you just have such a beautiful heart of service. And I mean, I could see that throughout even your volunteering and your mentorship and things that you do. So, gosh, yeah. Thank you for sharing about that.
[00:25:21] Nile Harris: Yeah.
[00:25:21] Lindsey Dinneen: So I'm curious. Along this journey, especially in medtech, have there been any moments that stand out to you as really clarifying to you, "Wow, I am in the right place, at the right time, in the right industry?"
[00:25:36] Nile Harris: Oh, oh. There is a moment where I almost quit and it was when I was in sales. And again, it was a hybrid sales marketing role, but I was, it was doing my field training and I'm so excited to be out there. And I, you know, completely committed to the mission and we help people in these devices. They go in people and they restore health and they do all of these things and these things are great. And I was, In the hospital one day with one of my training reps, and we got a call to the E. R. There was a patient in there with a ruptured aneurysm, aortic aneurysm, and he was, I don't know, in his eighties, mid eighties.
And we looked at the film to see if the device, the stent graft, it's minimally invasive. The other way you repair an aortic aneurysm is to open somebody all of the way up and take out their aorta and put in a different type of graft. And when we looked at the film, this was a ruptured something like a 10 centimeter aneurysm. And this patient was actively bleeding out. And the rep asked me, " What do you see?" And that's what I said I saw. And she said, "Well, okay, so what are we going to do?" And I'm like going through my training, flipping through my training and everything in my training said, "There's nothing that we can do for this patient." And so I say it to her and she was like, "Correct." And so essentially once you've ruptured to this point, they were just making him comfortable at this point and he was going to expire.
And I conceptually understood that people pass away. We can't save everybody, but to have to sit there in that moment and look at looking at this film and you are dealing with a human, is a human being on the table and you are saying it's "Wow. This is the moment where you can't do anything." So we left there and I just went back to my hotel and I was like, " This is stupid. Like, why am I doing this?" And my manager called me and I told him, I was like, "You know what? I don't think I'm cut out for this. I can't do this. I can't not save people. I got into this to save people." And he said, "If you had any other reaction, I would be worried about you." He's like, " Give it 48 hours and call me back." So I gave it 48 hours. I called him back and I was like, " No, I'm supposed to be here. I'm in the right place. I love this work. I love what I do. I would not have been so upset if I didn't. If I didn't love what I do, if I wasn't in the right place, I would not have been so upset. So that was to me was a defining moment of that's why I love this work."
[00:28:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. What a powerful story. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:28:46] Nile Harris: Yeah. You're welcome.
[00:28:47] Lindsey Dinneen: You know, I really appreciate-- that's such a human moment to have. And of course we all have them, but we don't always talk about them because it doesn't always feel good, but that is so powerful that you were able to take what, it was such a difficult moment but use it as a little bit of motivation for your why as well. Wow. Yeah, that is amazing. Thank you.
[00:29:09] Nile Harris: Yeah. And yeah, you're welcome. And I had two primary trainers in Tennessee. They were like in different parts of Tennessee, and the primary trainer told me when I, first day of training, he said, "If you always do what's right for the patient, everything else will come.
[00:29:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, there you go. That's "great.
[00:29:27] Nile Harris: Yep.
[00:29:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:29:44] Nile Harris: Oh, this is such a great question. I don't know how I would do it. But I would teach people how to, how do I put this? I would teach people how to go from like strategy to execution but in a, I think maybe in a broader way, I would teach people like how to connect thoughts or how to be curious or how to always be learning. I don't know exactly how I would do it, but I would teach people to be explorers their life.
[00:30:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Oh, I love that so much. Yes, amazing. Yeah, well, whenever you put that together, let me know because that sounds incredible.
[00:30:24] Nile Harris: Yeah. I mean, I just wrote it, like I wrote it down, right? Like, I like, that's what I would do. I would teach people to be explorers, because then if you teach people to be explorers of their own life and curious about their own life, they're going to end up where they're supposed to end up eventually, right? So whether it's medtech or whether it's this or that, like you're going to end up where you should be because you've been curious about your life. And, yeah, that's what I teach.
[00:30:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love it. And also, I think the benefit of the explorer mindset is that you are, because you are choosing to view life as an adventure and you're constantly learning and growing, there really isn't such a thing as failure. You're exploring. So if something doesn't go the way that you hoped it would or planned it would or whatever, you go, "Okay, that exploration didn't go as planned. What did I learn from it though?" And then let's move forward.
[00:31:21] Nile Harris: Yeah, that's exactly how I look at it. Somebody asked me If I have a fear of failure, and I said, "I don't." And they're like, "That's crazy. Everybody has a fear of failure." And I was like, "No, because I tried something didn't work out. And now I know." Right? Or, "I didn't do it the right way. Now I know the right way, you know?" So I was like, "I don't have a fear of failure. I have a fear of doing things badly, not performing well." But failure? No, it's all exploration, it's all learning."
[00:31:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Ah, perfect mindset. I love it. So, and then you touched a little bit on this, but just to dive a little bit more into it, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:32:01] Nile Harris: As a servant. Yeah, I, that's a, yeah, I don't think there's more... I want people to remember that I contributed, that I gave more than I got, that I helped others, and I'll be happy with that.
[00:32:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:32:32] Nile Harris: Dogs! Dogs!
[00:32:36] Lindsey Dinneen: The end.
[00:32:37] Nile Harris: The end! See him on the street? Smile. Go to the dog park? Smile. Look at my own dog? Smile. Dogs are our partners in life. They are like four legged dopamine molecules. They are just amazing. And, they're always such a good energy boost, mood boost. Somebody asked me this, " If you quit MedTech tomorrow, what would you go do?" And I'm like, "I would open a doggy daycare."
[00:33:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. I love it. Yeah, they're just little bundles of joy. I mean, how can you not just be so excited to see... Well, I view it that way. How could you just not fall in love? I fall in love all the time with dogs.
[00:33:17] Nile Harris: Yeah, the dogs are amazing, I always feel like they make a family complete. I love, and you specifically said "see," so when I see dogs, but I think what gives me energy, I'm kind of, I'm kind of adding a part B to this. I think what personally gives me energy is being around my family. I come from a really big family. And so being able to share that family energy is energizing. But when I see a dog, I'm insta happy.
[00:33:46] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. And I love your part B too. That's a really compelling secondary answer too. So yeah. Thank you for that. So, yeah. Well, Nile, this conversation has been amazing. You are amazing. You're such a powerhouse, and it's, it's such a joy to get to talk with you today and learn from you. So thank you so, so, so much for your time. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Opportunity International, which works to end global poverty by creating and sustaining jobs while also providing small business loans, savings, insurance, and training to more than 14 million people in the developing world. So thank you so much for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:34:40] Nile Harris: Thank you so much. I enjoyed our conversation. This was so much fun. Thank you for the invitation.
[00:34:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. And thank you so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:35:01] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dr. Jay Anders | Chief Medical Officer, Medicomp Systems | Enhancing Healthcare IT, EHR Usability, & Being Mission Driven

Dr. Jay Anders, Chief Medical Officer of Medicomp Systems, shares his career transition from an internist to a leader in healthcare IT, emphasizing the importance of usable technology for clinicians. He discusses Medicomp's mission to enhance clinicians' efficiency and patient care through advanced tools. Dr. Anders also explores the challenges of incorporating AI in healthcare, the disparity of healthcare access in rural areas, and the rewarding experience of international medical missions. He highlights the importance of change management in reducing physician burnout and aims to teach coping mechanisms for managing constant healthcare changes.
 
Guest links: www.medicomp.com | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayandersmd/
Charity supported: Feeding America
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 042 - Dr. Jay Anders
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Dr. Jay Anders. As Chief Medical Officer of Medicomp Systems, Dr. Anders supports product development, serving as a representative and voice for the physician and healthcare community. He is a fervent advocate for finding ways to make technology an enabler for clinicians rather than a hindrance. Dr. Anders spearheads Medicomp's knowledge based team and clinical advisory board, working closely with doctors and nurses to ensure that all Medicomp products are developed based on user needs and preferences to enhance usability. As the host of a popular, award winning Healthcare NOW radio podcast, "Tell Me Where IT Hurts," Dr. Anders has discussed the topics of physician burnout, EHR clinical usability, healthcare data interoperability, and the evolving role of technology in healthcare with a variety of industry experts and pundits.
Well, hello, Jay. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited you're here.
[00:01:53] Jay Anders: I'm very glad to be here.
[00:01:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by telling us just a little bit about who you are and your background and maybe what led you into MedTech.
[00:02:06] Jay Anders: Well, I am an internist by training, and after practicing medicine in a large multi specialty group practice for almost 20 years, I decided to have a little career shift, and the reason I shifted careers was I had a little computer science background, so I said, "Let's see if we can put that to work." And about that time is 2004, I'll date myself. We started getting into electronic health records, and when they first started to come out, they were just these read only, do nothings, electronic versions of paper. And I thought, "Well, this is not going to work out really well. Let's see what we can do about that." So my big clinic decided we'd be one of the first to hop in the pool.
So we did with a company called Integrate. And when we got that all installed and rolled out and everybody using it, they came to me and said, we really need a physician to really help lead what do physicians want or need in healthcare IT. So I said, "Well, we'll just part time." Well, that lasted about six months. And I said, "I can't be in two places at once. I can't practice full time medicine and do this at the same time."
So I switched careers and one of the biggest questions I get asked all the time is "Why in the world you do that?" I mean, I saw, you know, five, six thousand patients a year, big practice. And they said, "Why'd you get out of practice?" And I said, "Well, think about it for a minute. So I can see those five or six thousand patients and affect their lives and help their health get better, or in this industry, I can make the lives of hundreds of thousands of patients better. And not only them, the providers that actually take care of them."
So to make a really long pathway short, that company got purchased by another company, which got purchased by a company, probably everybody knows called McKesson. And I worked in the big corporate medicine world for a while. I got kind of tired of that. And I wound up with working with Medicomp. We use some of their products and the Integrate product that we had. So I've known him for quite some time and he always told me, he said, "When you're ready to make a change, let me know." So I was ready to make a change and I joined Medicomp. It's now been 11 years working at that particular organization. Love it. It's great. And it's got the right mission. So I was looking for where can I really make a difference? And this company really makes a difference.
[00:04:36] Lindsey Dinneen: That's incredible. Thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. And I'd really love to dive into exactly what you ended with because I think that mission is such a key aspect of maybe a lot of things, and probably opinions vary, but I have found that it is really helpful to have something that drives you so that on the difficult days you go, "Yes, but I am here for this reason." So I'm curious, can you expand a little bit about your current company and how it is so missionally driven?
[00:05:08] Jay Anders: Well, Medicomp has a single purpose that has multi facts blended into it. How can I say that a little bit better? It's just, it's got a lot of tentacles, but it does one thing. It was started to actually assist the providers at the point of care to actually take care of their patients. It started out 46 years ago. We're one of the oldest healthcare IT companies out there. We're older than Epic. I love to say that. So we started out to how do you really assist clinicians to, to do what they do. And through multiple iterations and years of development and things like that, we have come up with a set of tools that I think really puts the joy back in the practice of medicine for the providers that have to do it. It also has a mechanism to get the patients involved. So my goal when I first started this is, when I first started looking at electronic health records, I said, "This is not going to work," like I said before. And that's what we're doing now. We're making it work. And it's interesting to see the acceptance or push back, however you want to talk about it. But we have but one mission: is to make the lives of the clinicians that use electronic healthcare work for them.
[00:06:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. My mind immediately goes to perhaps some of the challenges that the company faces with these electronic records, things like cybersecurity and HIPAA. And I'm so curious to know how you have been able to navigate that and adapt and evolve because, oh dear, those are hot topics.
[00:06:51] Jay Anders: Well, yeah, in healthcare, it's probably one of the most regulated things on the planet at least in the United States. And it just got a little bit more complex because the Office of the National Coordinator keeps rolling out more regulations which we have to comply with. It's interesting how Some of these regulations have morphed throughout the process. I'll take HIPAA as an example. You brought it up. The privacy act had a very simple mission is to protect people's medical records from being shared with the wrong people. It went completely over the falls, meaning you can't share anything. And it's really tough to get permissions and all of that.
One of the problems we've had that my company helps solve because we're in the exchange information business is being able to share that medical information when it's needed and where it's needed and in a format that's usable. So when people say, "I don't want my medical record shared," it's interesting because if you really ask patients, they say, "Oh yeah, if my doctor who is in the next town needs what I have, wrong with me, send it. I don't want to have to fill it out again."
And one of the biggest bugaboos that I've seen with patients, including myself, is that every time you go to the doctor now, they ask you the same set of questions over and over again. Has that information changed? Probably not all that much. So it spends a lot of time going through machinations of making sure everything is okay and shareable and all of that. I have noticed that lately things are starting to loosen up a little bit along those lines. So people are not so scared that their information is going to get in the right hands or wrong hands, needs to be in the right hands. So I see that kind of fading in, in the United States.
And what's interesting is our company is international. So we have installations in Thailand and Indonesia and other places. And over there, there's no problem with sharing information, which is a big plus when it comes to really taking care of patients, and that's why we're in this business as a clinician, either on the healthcare IT side like I am now or on the other side before. It's all about taking care of the patient.
[00:09:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and it's cool to think how you have been one of the first providers of such a service because that must have been, I feel like a barrier of entry would have been challenging. What kind of pain points did you have to solve for, especially clinicians who might have been hesitant to adopt the technology?
[00:09:31] Jay Anders: Good question. One of the biggest challenges was the breadth of medicine itself. If you think about all the different conditions that a human can have, you have to have support for all of it. Well, getting to the all of it has taken 46 years. So it's not as if it happened yesterday. So the challenge was actually making it work every time, all the time, for the breadth of medicine. Now, one of the things about physicians especially, nursing not so much, but physicians particularly. We all know that we know everything on the planet and we are the absolute arbiter of everything you have as a patient, and we don't need any help at all. We can handle it.
We're trained that way, which is really not true. Even in the old days, I would dismiss myself from a patient's room because I knew I had to go look something up. My knowledge is a little diminished in that area, so I have to go look it up. Well now, medicine's expanded so much that there's no way on the earth you can keep track of it all in your head. So, what can keep track of vast amounts of information, both patient information as well as medical information, pretty easily? A computer! So how can we make that computer act and think like a clinician. And that's what we've done at Medicomp. We've actually done that process.
So when you walk in with diabetes or whatever condition, I can give you on a screen everything you need to ask and answer about that particular condition and make it easy for you to take care of that patient and document what you need to document and get all the information you need and sort it out. So computers can do that. It's gotten better through time, and now we have the world of AI we have to deal with in healthcare, which is also a little scary, but it does have a great potential.
[00:11:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and to that point, to explore it a little further, what is your opinion of incorporating it? How do you feel that the safety or ethical implications of it, I think there's always a lot of great uses for AI, but I'm curious about how do you feel that maybe it would be best utilized for situations like yours or for companies like yours?
[00:11:57] Jay Anders: Well, AI is nothing more than a large program that's trying to predict what the next word will be in any given text. That's what it does, basically, down to the ground. The issues with AI is it's not trained as a clinician. You can read it every medical text on the planet, but it still does not really think like a physician thinks. So, along those lines, it's a great augmentation, easy retrieval of data, easy refreshing your memory about something if it's a little esoteric. It's great at that. It's also great at picking up synonymy, which is picking up every different medical term that you try to use in a particular situation. It can do that very well.
The issue is it's not trained medically and it really doesn't have the intuition of a well trained physician So I'll tell you a little bit about myself again. When I started as an intern, I had a white coat with every conceivable little pocket manual I could stuff in it, including my stethoscope and tongue depressors and lights and things like that. I passed all my boards. I knew medical text. I knew all that. But it came down, I have to take care of patients now. A little different. And the experience that I developed over 20 years of doing that is something that you really can't stick into a computer. So, I think AI is going to be great about summarizing different sets of information, filtering it, presenting it, doing things like that. I don't think it's going to be used a whole lot to actually diagnose patients. I've seen people try to do that. It scares me a little bit.
The other issue is, who's responsible? If a computer makes a diagnosis, who in the world is responsible? It's not the computer, it didn't care less. It's not the programmer who programmed the computer because they didn't know anything about what you were doing. So who's going to be responsible? So there's that one one step. So it can take you so far. It can really help you to get there, but you have to take the training the intuition, all of the knowledge over time, and apply it. So I think it's going to be a good augmentation, not ever a replacement. I just don't see that happening, at least in my lifetime.
[00:14:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, we'll see where it goes, but I, yes, that, that makes a lot of sense, and it's a great tool. I think that's a good way of thinking about it, not as a replacement, but just add it to your arsenal, so to speak, and yeah. Now you are a fellow podcaster and I would love if you would share a little bit about your podcast and how that all came about.
[00:14:50] Jay Anders: Well, it's been, oh, it's been three years now. Wow. We were thinking about other ways that we could get the word out about what we do as a company, because my podcast is sponsored by the company I work for. But I also have a little bit of thespian in me. I was in plays in college and high school and all that nonsense. That kind of thing really didn't bother me. He says, "Well, let's give it a shot. What would it be like?" And he said, "Okay." So we had our first guest, second guest, things are kind of coming along. You get into a flow, really enjoy doing it, and the conversations are so stimulating. And then I had my conversation with Mickey Tripathi, who's the National Coordinator of Healthcare IT, and I wound up winning a Power Press Award for that particular interview.
[00:15:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Congrats.
[00:15:40] Jay Anders: It's been a lot of fun. It's engaging. And the feedback I get from it is that they like the conversation. Everybody likes to talk at you, not with you. And I've really tried to get out of that mode of just talking at somebody, but let's have a conversation about a topic. And I've learned a lot. I hope my listeners have learned a lot and it's been a great deal of fun.
[00:16:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, that's great. And I also recognize that you are a featured speaker on healthcare IT. And was that, well, you said you have this background in theater. So was public speaking something that came easily to you? Was it something you developed over time?
[00:16:28] Jay Anders: It came pretty easily to me, I think. One of the things I did back three companies ago is I got to introduce a keynote speaker and talk about a keynote speaker in front of an M. G. M. A. Conference, and there had to be 6000 people in that audience. It was huge. But I walked out there and I said, "Okay, they're gonna listen to what I'm gonna have to say, and that's gonna be it. It's not gonna affect me." And it was a lot of fun, too. But so big crowds like that, it really doesn't affect me if I'm well prepped. If I'm passionate about talking about, it kind of rolls out of me naturally. So I don't have any problem with it. It's a lot of fun as well.
[00:17:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Yeah. Yeah. Just another opportunity to continue spreading that message. You know, I very much enjoyed looking at your LinkedIn profile and learning a little bit about you. And I wondered if you could share a little bit about, I saw that you do or have done in the past, some medical mission work to various countries. I would love if you would share a little bit about that and your heart for that.
[00:17:38] Jay Anders: Well, in the past, I've not done it a lot recently, but I have taken several trips to Asia with a medical team and it had to be one of the most rewarding things I think I've ever done. And we were in the country of Kazakhstan, and we were seeing people who really don't have access to healthcare. And what healthcare they have over there was really not all that good. But we went over with a team of five. Had a physical therapist, a nurse, and probably 15 bags full of medications of which all went through customs without a hitch, which I was very surprised. But I got up in the morning, got there right at daybreak, and I would see 250 people a day and work till the sun went down. And there were still people to see. They were so appreciative of any kind of information, any kind of healthcare, any way you could help them.
All done just, it was, like I said, one of the most rewarding things that I think I've ever done. And one of the best parts about that trip is I went and went to an orphanage that had, the kids needed health screenings. And there were about 200 kids. So we started early in the morning and I saw child after child after child after child ' till we finally got through the whole thing. And at the end of the day, it's now hanging in our kitchen. One of the little boys came up and said, "I want to give this to you, doctor." And it was a wooden plaque of an, with an urt on it, a camel and a little star. And in that part of the world, that's how they live is these urts, these very unique, tent like structures.
And I just broke down. I couldn't, I, it was one of those things where that is going to me, to the nursing home because of that experience. But I highly recommend if anybody in healthcare and I'm not part of Doctors Without Borders, but I support them. If you have a chance to do that, do it. And you can do it as a non medical person because you always need support people. So if you think you want to do it, get yourself involved. It's great to do. It's massively rewarding and an experience that will last you a lifetime.
[00:19:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, life changing. Yeah. Thank you for sharing about that. I thought that was really neat to see that's something that you've done in the past and you're passionate about. And speaking of passions, I know kind of a similar thing, but I think perhaps even in the US, this is something that you advocate for is, something that seems to bother you is the disparity of access to healthcare in more rural settings. And this is something that I feel like, on occasion, maybe some Americans don't realize that even in the United States, there is this disparity. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and your passion for that.
[00:20:37] Jay Anders: Oh, absolutely. I grew up in a town of 20, 000 in the middle of Illinois. And I'll just give you a little progression. So in the town I grew up in, when I was a little boy at six, seven, we had two hospitals, nice size hospitals in that community. Roll ahead to 2024. One is a derelict building that looks horrifying. It's about to fall down. The other has merged with a larger system, which is about 40 miles away. It's coned down in size. They still do a lot of work there, but it's a lot of the major cases get shipped out to the mothership, which is in an adjacent city.
But this plays out across rural areas all over the country. Hospitals are closing, they're under pressure, both cost of care as well as reimbursement for that care. Specialists in certain areas are very hard to come by. And when you look about the delivery of care, this is one of the things that bothers me the most. The people who get better in the hospital the quickest are the people who have support groups around them. They have parents, they have children, somebody to come and visit them and be with them, give them a reason to get better.
When you move some of these rural hospitals and put them out of business or reduce them to the point they're just an aid station and you ship that patient to a medical center that's 50, 100 miles away, that support group goes away. It's very hard for that to even exist. So if you take into consideration the lack of real reimbursement at that level, at those types of hospitals, the lack of specialty care, which is still needed, and really the lack of primary care, things are headed downhill with that as well. It really is a disparate way of delivering healthcare in the United States. Not everybody can go to a Cleveland Clinic or a Mayo to get their healthcare.
I live here in Western Pennsylvania. We have two massive institutions, both of which are wonderful, but not everybody can come here. People that are out in the Northern Pennsylvania, in the middle of the state, they got to travel because their hospitals are closing. And that I think is a travesty of the system. It's something that needs governmental intervention and it needs intervention in several different modes, meaning increased reimbursement, training physicians that want to practice in that type of environment. There are programs out there that are to start to do that, but it needs attention because people out there are not getting the same healthcare as I can get 15 miles up the road in the city of Pittsburgh.
[00:23:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing a little bit about that, and even some suggestions for ways that this can be helped. I know it's a long road, but I appreciate that you are bringing light to it and helping to start those conversations that will hopefully lead to change down the road. So.
[00:23:49] Jay Anders: And technology does have a place to play in doing that as well. Telehealth, distance, ICUs, things like that. There are ways that technology can augment that medical care, but it's expensive. There has to be some type of support for it, both at the state and federal levels.
[00:24:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So I'm curious on your path and your journey so far, and obviously you've had a really interesting career path 'cause you've done a few different things over your career and you continue to, I'm sure, learn and grow. But are there any moments that stand out to you as really affirming that, "You know what, I am in the right industry at the right time, at the right time? I'm doing what I was meant to do."
[00:24:36] Jay Anders: Boy, that's a great question. One of the things that really drew me to working at the company I'm working at now at Medicomp was the fact that they truly had the physicians and the providers of healthcare's best interest in mind. Foremost, everything we do, and I mean, everything we do, is geared to make their lives better, more effective, and deliver better care. That's what we do.
So in my pathway, which came kind of went around in different ways and different companies, different sizes through acquisition and other things, I really wound up in a place where we're not a large company, but we're all of one mind. And that is an absolutely fabulous place to work when you're all pulling the rope in the same direction. And it's all for a great purpose. And when I have providers come up and tell me, "Well, we installed this or we're using this, and it really did help what I'm doing." I had nurses come up to me and at one of our installations that say, "I've got 50 percent more time to spend with my patients. I'm not spending it in an inefficient electronic health record. That's been fixed." And when people say that it's like, "Okay, I'm in the right place at the right time."
[00:26:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's incredible. What great testimonies too. Oh my word. Thank you for sharing that. So pivoting the conversation just for fun. Imagine that you were to be offered the opportunity to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. And you'll get a million dollars for it. What would you choose to teach?
[00:26:30] Jay Anders: I would teach physicians and other clinicians change management theory and how to manage change. That's what I would teach. I've had the luxury in my career of having a professional coach for two years, professional training and leadership. It's been a great thing to have, but not everybody has that. I would love to be able to teach clinicians how they can manage all the change that comes at them every day. It's patience, it's technology, it's knowledge base, all of that. It's changing all the time. You got to have a method. You got to have some skills. You got to have some coping mechanisms to go through that. It can't overwhelm you every time you go to work. And I think that's part of our burnout problem is that there's the skill set of managing change just isn't there to the degree it ought to. And physicians throw their hands up. I'm going, "I'm retiring. I'm going somewhere. I can't do this anymore." And I think that's wrong. So, that's what I do. I would teach coping skills around change in healthcare.
[00:27:46] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Excellent. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:27:53] Jay Anders: I want to be remembered as somebody who made a difference. You know, a lot of people get into the healthcare IT business because they want to revolutionize this or revolutionize that. I don't want to revolutionize anything. I want to make a difference. And if I can make a difference, I've pretty much done what I went into this profession to do was make a difference with patients, make a difference in my colleagues, and in the industry I'm in now. That's what I want to be remembered as.
[00:28:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And then, final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:28:33] Jay Anders: I'm going to go back to my story in Kazakhstan. Every time I think of that little boy coming up, grabbing my coat, jerking on it, to hand me that little plaque, that gives me a smile every time I think about it. It actually gives my wife a smile, too. Because we'll look up at that plaque in the kitchen and go, "I know where that came from. That was a good time." That makes me smile almost every time.
[00:28:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. What a powerful memory and just such great motivation, something to come back to on the difficult days and then you look at that and go, "Yeah. Okay. I can make a difference here. I did make a difference here."
[00:29:14] Jay Anders: I did.
[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that so much. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I am so grateful to you for spending some time with me and just telling me about your background and the amazing work that you're doing, that your company is doing. And we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Feeding America, which works to end hunger in the United States by partnering with food banks, food pantries, and local food programs to bring food to people facing hunger, and they also advocate for policies that create long term solutions to hunger. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the best continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:30:00] Jay Anders: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[00:30:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And thank you also so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:30:16] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Hannah Went | Co-Founder, TruDiagnostic | Pioneering Epigenetics, Transforming Healthcare, & Making Science Accessible

Hannah Went, a pioneer in epigenetics, is the co-founder of TruDiagnostic and founder of Everything Epigentics. She shares her journey from the early days of TruDiagnostic to its burgeoning role in healthcare. She reflects on the rapid evolution of epigenetics, the challenges of making groundbreaking science accessible, and the gratifying shift towards mainstream acceptance. Hannah also delves into her personal growth, emphasizing the transformative impact of "The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership" and her desire to be remembered as loving and impactful. 
Guest links: trudiagnostic.com | everythingepigenetics.com
Charity supported: Equal Justice Initiative
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 041 - Hannah Went
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Hannah Went. Hannah has a lifelong passion for longevity and breakthrough disruptive technologies that drive radical improvement to the human condition. She attended the University of Kentucky and graduated with a degree in biology. During that time, she had multiple research internships studying cell signaling and cell biology. After graduation, she worked for the International Peptide Society as their Director of Research and Content. Through work in the integrative medicine industry, Hannah saw an opportunity for a methylation based age diagnostics and started TruDiagnostics in 2020. TruDiagnostic is a company focused on array based methylation diagnostics for life extension and preventative healthcare serving functional medicine providers. TruDiagnostic has a commitment to research with over 30 approved clinical trials investigating the epigenetic methylation changes of longevity and health interventions. Since TruDiagnostics' inception, they have created one of the world's largest private epigenetic health databases with over 75, 000 patients tested to date. Hannah has since created Everything Epigenetics, where she shares insights on how DNA regulation has an impact on your health.
All right, well, welcome to the show, Hannah. I'm so excited to talk with you today. Thanks for taking some time.
[00:02:14] Hannah Went: Thanks, Lindsey. I'm excited to speak with you.
[00:02:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, would you mind starting off by sharing a little bit about yourself and your background and what led you to MedTech?
[00:02:25] Hannah Went: Yes, absolutely. I've known since I was a little girl that I've always been interested in science, how the world works, how the body works. I remember being a little girl and going in our backyard, lifting up rocks, finding roly-polies and worms and getting all down and dirty. I was definitely a tom girl, if you will, growing up. I love sports. I loved connecting with people. So I also loved the social aspect of understanding how the body works as well. And I was very athletic growing up. So I played track soccer, basketball, sports all year round, essentially. I knew I wasn't good enough though, to go to like a D1 or probably even D2 college for sports.
So I was like, "All right, well, I'll just go to a larger university, maybe play some club soccer and really focus on my academic route." And I ended up going to University of Kentucky. It wasn't too far from me. I'm just from Ohio, north of Dayton, a small town called Piqua. And I did end up playing soccer, club soccer there, got involved in a lot of other activities. Ended up actually going into veterinary work, animal science. UK has a really good program for that. They have a really good agriculture department. I ended up shadowing a vet one summer and I hated it. It was one veterinarian clinic. So a lot of work, a lot of late hours. And I knew I wanted to have a family growing up.
So I was like, "Eh, let me just switch to general biology. Let me just open my doors." And fast forward to senior year. I was really interested in genetics and you know, how do we have these predispositions that are passed on throughout our family? How does that affect our health outcomes essentially? So I applied to genetic counseling school, which is a very new program. It's a master's program. It is where you get your master's essentially in genetics and counseling. So it's like the best of both worlds, exactly what I loved growing up. You have the science aspect, but you're sitting down and helping people actually understand their risk. Applied to school, Lindsey, and didn't end up getting in. So I was like, "Oh, I'm heartbroken. I'm still super young. My life's over!" type of deal, a big eye roll ,and thought it was the end of the world.
But really where my career took a huge turning point was at that failure point. I took a job, my best friend got me a position at a compounding pharmacy in Nicholasville, Kentucky, which is just a little bit South of Lexington. And that was when I was opened up into this entire medtech space of healthcare providers and the integrative functional medicine journey who were focusing on healthcare, like true healthcare, not sick care, not taking care of sick people when they're already sick, they're already doomed and just trying to bill them for all of these medications through insurance. So that's really how I've gotten to where I am today.
[00:05:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that is so cool. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. It was fun to even hear about your childhood and how that theme of interest in all those different aspects has woven its way through your story. And I would love to hear a little bit more then about, okay, so what does present day look like and how did you end up where you are?
[00:05:43] Hannah Went: Yes, so I'll try and keep it short and concise. So this pharmacy was very innovative. It was the fourth fastest growing healthcare company in the nation in 2019. And it's really focused on the unique peptide products. It was again a compounding pharmacy by trade, meaning you can compound anything in all different dosing as long as you have a prescription from a healthcare provider by it. They grew really fast. So, you know, we always had regulatory agencies come check in, make sure we were doing everything correctly, which we absolutely were. But there was always this worry that these products made people feel better, but there wasn't a lot of quantitative data behind it.
So we were like, "All right. Well, what can we measure in clinical trials and institution review boards to really prove to people out there, 'Hey, these are having a massive underlying biological effect on people.' They don't just feel better." We used to joke and say, "People can become tan, they can become skinny, they can increase their libido from these products, but they also actually save people's life." They stabilize insulin sensitivity. They can help people lose weight who have metabolic disease. They can mediate a lot of the effects of specific autoimmune diseases. So there are massive impacts that these products had.
And we're like, "All right, well, if you had one test, like if you could measure one thing that really relates to all of those items I just mentioned, it's aging," right? These age related diseases. So, "how do you even measure age" is the follow up question and you can do that in all sorts of different ways. But there are actually these DNA regulation markers, like these on and off switches, called your epigenetics that seems to be the best way to measure aging.
So we really started measuring and doing clinical trials with these epigenetic aging biomarkers to prove the efficacy of these products. And what we ended up doing is just selling the pharmacy in 2019. It became-- oh-- pretty boring, I guess, for lack of a better word, because there were new rules and regulations in place by regulators on what you can and cannot compound. And then you have built my company now, TruDiagnostic, from the ground up. We have our laboratory in Lexington, Kentucky, and we started out with one goal, which was essentially to offer the best age testing. And now we're doing a lot of different things. So that's what I'm really involved in now on a day to day basis.
[00:08:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And okay, so, so you embrace this entrepreneurial endeavor, which is a whole second set of-- I mean, obviously you have all the skills from your experience and your education and whatnot, but then to compound that with owning your own business and then setting up a brick and mortar, it's an actual lab and whatnot. How was that transition? Did you feel prepared for it? Did it catch you off guard? What was that like?
[00:08:38] Hannah Went: We were kind of creating TruDiagnostic behind the scene when we had the pharmacy. So like end of 2019, we were really creating it. But I do think it caught me off guard looking back where it was like, "Okay, pharmacy sold, full time TruDiagnostic. How the heck do we set up this lab at the beginning of 2020?" It was go mode. So we bought a building in Lexington. It was an old insurance building. We completely knocked out the top floor, which was offices, carpeted, not usable lab space and built the lab again, like I mentioned, from the ground up. So I joke and say, "I'm a construction worker. I was an interior designer." I was doing all of these other things. And of course I had a lot of amazing people helping me all throughout the way, but testing SOPs for standard operating procedures, creating those.
I remember the first day we were running samples in like trialing the protocol. I was here till 5am because we were thawing things and freezing things as part of the protocol and didn't even realize that was part of the step once we started to get into it. So yeah, it definitely took me off guard. And I think furthermore, we launched right before COVID 19. So it was the worst timing in history to launch. And you know, we did it anyways. And then the first year and a half, two years, it was a lot of follow up. It was a lot of cold calling. It was chasing or following up with these healthcare providers to use these kits that we sent out because we did a really nice promotion to get the product out there, but it was hard to balance because when COVID 19, this nasty pandemic, came into the U. S., you almost felt guilty asking the healthcare providers to focus on anything else, right? You're like, "That is not what you should be worrying about right now." So it was definitely hard to balance.
[00:10:23] Lindsey Dinneen: And yeah, my goodness. And honestly what resonated with me too is, you know, you're talking about, you've worn so many hats, obviously, as a business owner and setting this up. And I used to joke that, when I had a brick and mortar business and I was like, "On any given day, I'm everything from the CEO to the janitor."
[00:10:40] Hannah Went: I can relate. I can definitely relate to that. I remember we needed some kind of-- I don't even know what we need this for-- it was like some type of part that had to regulate water temperature or something like that. So a traditional thermometer wouldn't work. I remember I drove across the street to a pet store and I got something that belonged in a fish tank. And I'm like, " I don't even know if this will, will work." But I mean, we are just piecing everything together. It was like you were doing yet literally everything and anything that you could just because you wanted it to work so bad. You had that passion, that, that push. And you realized that the end goal in mind, which for us, it's really just to help our people, you know, people who are working with us, and our clients, whether that's anyone from now a healthcare provider offering our services or a researcher or academic collaboration, it's someone doing third party processing at our lab or even down to the end consumer client patient, whatever you'd like to call them that come directly to our website and do our testing.
[00:11:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Great. And that actually addresses my next question, which was going to be, so do you only work with healthcare providers? Is it a B2B enterprise? But it sounds like you also do the B2C and you can sell directly to them, to people who are interested.
[00:11:55] Hannah Went: Definitely. Yeah. When we opened, we had that one goal in mind, which is what we knew, which were our healthcare providers that we really transitioned from the pharmacy over to TruDiagnostic. So that was like our main customer at the time. And I think we completed that goal of offering the best aging diagnostic tools at the end of last year with a large study we did with Harvard.
But now what we've noticed and, of course-- we kind of got lucky in this sense, we would have never imagined where we are now-- is that epigenetics, these DNA markers, these on and off switches are really great for creating new and novel biomarkers. So you can predict almost anything with them. You can predict even how much you've smoked across your entire lifetime, how much alcohol you've consumed, your zip code based on where you live, just because of the environment you're exposed to and your behaviors in that environment.
So it's pretty crazy, obviously we, we didn't expect that and I mean it's just being really blown up and everywhere you, you look, I mean it's related to every aspect of life and of course changeable as well. So even, providers who are using this test on a patient once, they'll retest them every 6 to 12 months. And then of course people coming from our website, we just released actually a subscription model a couple days ago so people can start to retest this in more of a hands off fashion. even every three to four months if they wanted to.
[00:13:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. So when somebody does your test and they get the results, is this something that you walk them through and say, okay "Here's where things stand now. If you make these tweaks, here's how things could stand?" Or how does it work from that perspective?
[00:13:34] Hannah Went: Definitely. So just to walk you through the process, you would get your kit, we'd ship it to you, you would prick your finger. So just a little blood spot card about the size of a quarter, you ship that sample back to our lab in Lexington and we get results back to you in about two to three weeks from the time we receive it. Then you would get all these different age related reports, some of those characteristic and trait based reports I mentioned, like this smoking and alcohol. And we, we do, so we can project you out saying, "Hey, if you still stay on this trend, whether it's aging faster or aging younger, here's where you're, where you'll be in six months, 12 months."
So it may be exciting to some, it may be scary to some, depending on where they are. Regardless, it's changeable. So if anyone's listening and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to know that. I'm so scared." If you've tested your genetics, that's in my opinion, even scarier. That doesn't change, right? You know your risk, you know your predisposition. So, this can all be mitigated through lifestyle factors, through supplements, medications, procedural based therapies as well. So we do give you recommendations on the report on what to do. You can absolutely again take it by yourself, but we can always help you and connect you with a healthcare provider if you're really wanting to go on this journey.
But I always say, Lindsey, the first test is really fun. It's sexy. It's really trendy right now. But it doesn't mean much. It's just a baseline. It's telling you where you are, just like your hormones and your CBC panel, your second test is more important than your first third, more than the second fourth, more than the third. And so on and so forth.
[00:15:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yeah. And you addressed something else that I was going to ask. So when people are interested, they'd like to do it, but they have this like, "Ooh, I don't know if I really want to know," how do you help overcome that? Is it because things are changeable? Like everything can be changed?
[00:15:26] Hannah Went: Yeah. Yeah. I'll even give you to an extent, I would say most of it, right. For the purpose of this conversation, yes. There are of course some exceptions, but my grandmother, for example, passed away from Alzheimer's when I was senior in high school. Right after that happened and what started some of my interest in genetics is I went and got my genes tested. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that was awful to watch her go through. Am I doomed, right? Am I going to have that same risk?" And my results came back. Well, I have this specific snip. It's a single nucleotide polymorphism. So this specific variant on my genes that's APOE 3-4. So this means I'm at a more increased risk to have Alzheimer's, and even at a younger age as well. I would say you have an even further increased risk if you're at APOE 4/4. So I'm not the worst, but I'm the second worst, essentially, and I'm like, "Well, this obviously isn't good. But this can't be it, right? This can't be the end of this story."
And you hear a lot of people say that too, people with metabolic disease or diabetes in their family. And, they may shrug and just say, "Oh, well, you know, I can eat whatever I want, right? I don't have to work out, like I'm doomed anyways, type of thing." And we know now that's not true, right? You're no longer really the victim of your genetic predisposition that we may have thought due to these epigenetic changes or the fact that it's changeable. So there are even peer reviewed published papers that come out showing estrogen, so optimizing your hormone levels can actually reduce your risk of Alzheimer's from an epigenetic standpoint along with everything else, exercising, eating very healthy, no artificial foods, flavoring. So you're, of course, always going to have that genetic risk, but you also have all of these other types of risks and you have this epigenetic risk, which should really be the main focus, because you're in the driver's seat again. You're no longer in the passenger seat. And that's really empowering to have all of that knowledge.
[00:17:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know that the test is really important in terms of telling an individual exactly what's going on and how things can change, but in doing all this research and data collection, are there certain lifestyle things that pretty much everybody regardless should pay attention to. Is that a thing?
[00:17:45] Hannah Went: Of course, that's the multimillion dollar question and a very frequent one that we get. And the answer is, "Sure, yes and no, kind of, maybe so." And what I mean by that is you can look at all of these general population studies that come out, right? These clinical trials and look at what really moved the needle. But again, those are populational trials, so you really need to find out what works for you. I can tell you what works for me.
There is a study on this, which is why I wanted to try it first. So again, you can start to maybe trial some things based on results that are already out there, but I've tested my aging before and what I've noticed that really slows it down is caloric restriction. So it's not necessarily intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding or skipping an entire meal, it's just continual, 10 percent caloric restriction. So if you're on a 2000 caloric based diet, take out about 200 calories, which if you're eating healthier anyways, you may not even be hitting your intake of calories based on your metabolic rate and what your specific goals are. And I've noticed that helps slow down my aging.
I've also noticed that I need to do more aerobic based exercises. So things like VO2 max, increasing FEV1, we can actually quantify those on our test. So really VO2 max is your oxygen uptake, so how much oxygen you can get into the body. Your FEV1 is your forced expiratory volume, so how much oxygen you can get out in and out of your lungs. Swimmers have a really good VO2 max and FEV1. So I noticed I was doing maybe too much like weightlifting, too much HIIT type of workouts. So you can get a lot of feedback from those reports. So for me, personally, that's what works.
[00:19:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That's great. That is amazing what you can test and gain knowledge about and then make those changes based off of. So on your LinkedIn profile, something that I was really intrigued by is you are a founding member of an organization, I believe, called Opscotch. Did I get that right? Okay. And one thing that really stood out to me, and I'd love to just hear your take on the organization as a whole, but you said part of your mission is to make biohacking accessible to everyone. And I really appreciated that. And I'm curious if you would share a little bit maybe more about that.
[00:20:05] Hannah Went: Yeah. Obscotch is a really cool community. So it is really democratizing the way healthcare I think has been viewed, even healthcare, like the model where we should go towards rather than that sick care. So it's making it a lot less scary. And I know that the founders of Obscotch, Spencer Coppin and Matt Christensen, and they're amazing people. They really set up this community as a way for people to have a support system. I think it can be really scary when you're entering really optimizing your overall health, what do you do? You see all of these ads, what protein should you take? What supplements should you take? They're just everywhere. Whose supplements really match the label? There are a lot of studies that show, that they don't even have promised ingredients on the label included in the supplement itself. So it's really confusing. And then you go down these rabbit holes and after a while, you don't know what you're looking at.
So if you're part of this community, you can choose to get a Whoop and to start tracking a lot of these markers. You probably know the quote by Peter Drucker, "You can't manage what you're not measuring," so they measure a lot of things. They do the biological age testing through TruDiagnostic, and then they do some other laboratory based testing as well. So there's different levels of the membership that you can actually get depending on how involved you want to be, but they also do these monthly quarterly type of challenges. So it could be to get your Whoop fitness score above 12 for 15 days of the month. So again, it really encourages people to come together and I love that community aspect of it. They've done a really nice job. And again, are just amazing people there. They're located in Canada too.
[00:21:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, nice. Yeah. So taking ownership of your health, but within a community, which makes it a lot, well, more fun, at least.
[00:21:54] Hannah Went: Yeah. And the community is awesome. That's probably a really good group for you to even look into, Lindsey. It's a lot of founders and entrepreneurs and people who have like wild backgrounds. And they're from all over the world too. So it's not just like, oh, you have to be in Canada. They do have a lot of like local meetups in Canada, which is really cool for things like cold plunging or running or, you know, scheduling dinners or seeing like Andrew Huberman, he was in town like a couple of months ago or something. So they put together the events and they also send you even like recommended podcast or YouTube videos to watch. So it's really curated health information if you're looking to optimize your own health.
[00:22:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Amazing. Yeah. And then, so another thing that I really enjoyed reading about you and your experience is, you mentioned that you appreciate taking complex scientific ideas and translating them into narratives that resonate with the intended audience. And I love that, and I think that's really important, but I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your process in doing that, translating very technical engineering science speak into maybe what other people who aren't in that world could relate to.
[00:23:14] Hannah Went: Yeah, definitely. So I have my personal company too, called Everything Epigenetics. So this is a, something TruDiagnostic wanted to do for a while is just educate others on epigenetics and what that means because there's a lot of education lacking out there. There's not much you can find. With all things that kind of got pushed under the rug in our early days, but I was just, " Screw it. I'll just make it mine." And I set up all of the social, the website domain and didn't do much with it for the first couple of months. And I was like, "Okay, I really want to get into this." And I think I started it at the end of 2022, so almost two years, which is crazy to say.
And, I used it as a way to really keep myself honest and involved in the research. So I'm not as involved in our research on a day to day. So I work with a lot of postdocs or PhDs who have created epigenetic algorithms or interpretations. And basically, hopefully break those conversations down for people to easily understand. It's still very high science and not as applicable, so it can be tough sometimes. But my real goal is just educating those on this massive paradigm shift we're seeing with epigenetics in terms of not only taking over traditional lab testing, but just medicine in general. I mean, it's causing a massive wave and really, I think, flipping our understanding of how this field works, how even really the body works.
So I don't monetize that at all. It's just something I do on the side. I have a podcast that runs every other week. And then I also am pretty active on Instagram doing these Journal Club Friday kind of spiels. That's where it's usually a video that's anywhere, I think, they're at least 90 seconds, but 90 seconds to four minutes long, just highlighting some type of research paper in the space and trying to do it in really simple terms that way people can understand it.
So it's not maybe always going to be applicable to everyday life. I think it's absolutely going to get there where we are able to measure epigenetics, see our exact plan, have everything served us on a silver platter. But we're a little bit far away from that now. And I think that's can be really frustrating to some people, but I think it's also as equally as exciting. And you have to keep in mind that this came out after the iPhone, after the first iPhone. So it only came out about, or I would say only became popularized about 10 years ago, which is very new. So we just have to be a little bit patient.
[00:25:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's fair. Well, thank you for helping translate some of these crazy things into more digestible pieces of information for those of us who maybe don't have that same background. So I do appreciate that.
[00:26:05] Hannah Went: Yeah, of course. It's really fun to just continue the conversation and start to break these complex ideas down.
[00:26:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, within your journey you know, as a scientist and researcher and entrepreneur and everything else, are there any moments that stand out to you that, that really affirm to you that you were in the right place at the right time in the right industry?
[00:26:34] Hannah Went: Ooh, that's a good question. I, I think yeah, I think probably a couple months ago, three months ago. So, we've actually joined with some other clinics on really pushing forward epigenetics. And I think we're starting to see everything coming together. So I think it is hopefully becoming mainstream. And that is just huge, because the vision for epigenetic testing is to be able to use one blood spot card, so really simple, easy collection method at a really cheap cost and getting every single biomarker back that you could possibly imagine: clinical lab values, hormones, inflammatory markers, vitamin levels, minerals, proteins, metabolites.
And I think, I remember just a couple months ago, when we really started to get an increased volume and testing, more healthcare providers just saying yes and super open to this idea. So I usually spend my day to day on calls with healthcare providers or our partnerships that we have with, whether it be wholesale or like resellers of these kits. And people are just starting to get it more. Like I remember at the beginning of TruDiagnostic, we always had to set up a call with every single account. It was, Hey, start from the top. What is epigenetics? Even before epigenetics, what is aging? How do you measure this? This is a really weird idea.
And now we're starting to see where people set up accounts with us and they don't even set up a call and they just start ordering, right? Or they set up a call and they're like, "Hey, I know what aging is. I know what epigenetics is. Help me market this to my patients. How do I sell this?" So, so we're starting to see that change and that's definitely not been overnight. To answer your question, right time, right room with the right people. But I think probably at the beginning of this year is when we started to really see that change, which has been super exciting.
[00:28:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is. It is because it's hard to-- it's great to educate-- but it is hard when that is your entire job day in and day out. And eventually maybe the science will catch up or the understanding of the science will catch up so that you finally get to this, you know, "we're getting there" stage.
[00:28:54] Hannah Went: I think it's hard, yeah, because you know, with us we speak with the healthcare providers. We speak with the academics, but we may not actually be seeing the end user, the end patient. So sometimes it can be hard. It's like, "Hey, what difference are we actually making?" And that can be a little bit of a pain point or a struggle. I think not so much anymore because our providers will come back and give us case studies or, you know, talk to us about some of their findings, which is really exciting. And that, continues to expand as we do these clinical trials and dive deeper into the research.
But I think we're TruDiagnostics sits right now is just an awesome opportunity because we are in between collaborators in terms of universities and academics and healthcare providers and patients. So we really bridge that gap as new algorithms, as new research is happening. We really do feel like we're at the centerfold and it's our responsibility to push that out to healthcare providers because there's no one really there to merge the two. So we'll start to see our type of healthcare providers we work with are willing to try anything, and willing to want the newest, latest, and greatest information as well to test on their patients. So they make for a really great group.
[00:30:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's incredible. And it's so great to hear about the ability to bridge the gap between an individual being able to take ownership of their own health versus-- doctors are amazing. I'm so thankful for every medical person-- but also it's nice to be able to feel a little bit empowered to take ownership as well. So I appreciate that you're able to start bridging the gap and, and help them make be more accessible. So that's great.
[00:30:30] Hannah Went: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
[00:30:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, so, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach your masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:30:47] Hannah Went: Ooh. What would I choose to teach and why? I think the ,there's a book that's really good that I think everyone should read and it's called "The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership." And have you ever heard of it before, Lindsey?
[00:31:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Nope, but I'm writing it down.
[00:31:02] Hannah Went: Yeah. It's awesome. So there, there are a couple of authors on the book, but yeah, Jim Dethmer, he would previously go to all of these companies and understand how their leadership worked. And it's a super readable book, super short, breaks it down in all of these chunks, depending on what you want to really focus on. He actually came and spoke to our company and it was really cool to learn from him about this. He doesn't do it much anymore. So, we felt very special to, to be able to have him. And It can act in all areas of your life. So it's not necessarily just leadership . It really extrapolates out to relationships, whether it be a romantic one, or not, or kind of a family one. It is really I think changed my outlook on a lot of things in life.
So I think I would want to teach something that has to do with that, that book. Jim's wife actually does a lot of the Enneagram work too. So the Enneagram test and understanding really your, kind of, why you're wired the way you are almost. Everyone has this conception of life. And you get to learn more about the way people think and how they work and why they do the things they do. So everyone did that test, the Enneagram test, in our company, and you can start to see these patterns and things. And it's just very useful information and it just makes everyone, I think, work together and flow together a little bit better too, which is awesome.
[00:32:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It sounds like a great masterclass and I have it written down. I'm going to, I'm going to look it up right after so I can secure my copy. Yeah. So, and then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world? .
[00:32:39] Hannah Went: Oh, how do I wish to be remembered? Hopefully as someone who is loving and fun and taught the world something. Doesn't necessarily have to be epigenetics related, but I think people probably see me right now as someone who is like very busy running around all of the time, going from place to place, and I don't think I like that. That's just what I think my interpretation of me maybe would be from the outside. But it doesn't feel like I'm busy, right? It feels like I'm doing the things that I want to do right now and I don't think I necessarily even like the word busy, right? What does that mean? Everyone's busy. Everyone's doing something to a degree. So, yeah, I just want to be remembered as fun, loving you know, I think would also be remembered, though, just as hardworking, determined and yeah, willing to work hard to reach specific goals.
[00:33:32] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:33:41] Hannah Went: Just my family, my husband, my sisters, my mom, my stepdad, everyone. So I get to hang out with them next weekend. I'm super, super excited. We'll be with them at their lake house. So I'm excited to be with the family.
[00:33:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Oh yeah. That's going to be wonderful. Well, Hannah, this has been such a great conversation and I so appreciate your spending some time with me today and sharing about your incredible journey and everything that's coming up too. And I'm so excited for you and for this mission and to see the company continue to grow and expand, so I do really appreciate you. being here. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Equal Justice Initiative, which provides legal representation to prisoners who may have been wrongly convicted of crimes, poor prisoners without effective representation, and others who may have been denied a fair trial. So thank you for choosing that organization to support and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:34:49] Hannah Went: Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey. I appreciate your time.
[00:34:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely, you too. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
[00:35:06] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Ruba Sarris Sawaya | Managing Partner, MediStrat360 | Commercialization, Advocacy for Women in MedTech, & Industry Leadership

Ruba Sarris Sawaya is a distinguished medtech executive with over 20 years of experience. Ruba discusses her journey from pre-med research to leading roles in market access strategy and consulting for medical device companies. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, lifelong learning, and strategic thinking in her career. Ruba shares insights on women's empowerment in a male-dominated industry and the significance of broadening skillsets beyond assigned roles.
Guest links: www.MediStrat360.com | www.rizlabhealth.com 
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 040 - Ruba Sarris Sawaya
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Ruba Sarris Sawaya. Ruba is a medtech executive who has been passionately committed to the medtech industry over the last 20 years. She is a leader with a reputation for cultivating loyal, engaged, and collaborative teams and who carries a visionary mindset with the ability to conceptualize and execute effective strategies that have contributed to transformative growth and innovation in the medtech space.
She is currently leading market access strategy for RizLab Health portable diagnostics devices, enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities. Concurrently, she is the managing partner for MediStrat360, medical device consulting firm with a mission to accelerate the journey from concept to market for groundbreaking medical devices.
Her educational background includes a bachelor of arts from Austin College with a major in biology and a double minor in chemistry and physics, a master's in public health in epidemiology from the University of Texas Health Science Center, in addition to her acceptance and completion of the leadership studies program at the highly competitive Posey Leadership Institute. Ruba brings a wealth of corporate strategy expertise, and a track record enabling successful device commercialization and market access.
All right. Welcome to the show, Ruba. I'm so excited to talk with you today.
[00:02:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Thank you very much, Lindsey. I'm excited to be here. I appreciated the invite.
[00:02:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad we got connected. So I was wondering if you could start by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and maybe what led you to medtech.
[00:02:32] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So, I mean, I've spent the last 20 years working explicitly and specifically focused on medtech, dedicated to commercialization of really cool technologies that have a profound impact on patients' lives. And I'm grateful for the opportunity this career gave me to work on some really disruptive technologies and collaborate with some brilliant minds across the industry. I had a front row seat to seeing how the incredible impact to the medtech industry can have on transforming healthcare. So what brought me into it, I initially wanted to go to med school, like a lot of people. I covered all of the basics and then graduated.
And then, I was doing preclinical research at UT Southwestern Medical Center. And I completed all the requirements for pre med the summer before, took the MCATs, did all of it. The summer before I was supposed to start, decided I had a soft heart and that may not be the best decision. And so there was a moment there of, I'm going to start with research and kind of see where I go. And ended up working with a lot of reps and connected with a lot of people within the medical device industry.
So I started looking for jobs 'cause it felt like the perfect opportunity with the intent that the pre med thing was this sincerely and authentically with a focus on wanting to help patients, right? And the beautiful opportunity med device provided me is that it enabled me to do that without the risks and consequences tied to direct patient care. That soft empathy piece or the super empathy piece on mine wasn't at risk from that standpoint.
So I was doing research at UT Southwestern in the physiology department, interacting and engaging from a folks working on trials perspective and then medical devices that were being used at that medical center and then started applying for jobs within medtech. Took one managing preclinical research way back when at Orthofix, transitioned and got promoted to running clinical affairs there, and then got promoted again and managed clinical affairs, government affairs, health economics outcomes, research and reimbursement for that organization. And that was a really long time ago and then moved into different career roles from there. But that's the story on that one.
[00:04:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's incredible. So, okay. So let's bring it up to present day, and you are doing some fractional work and I know that you have, I'm sure quite a full schedule just in looking at your LinkedIn profile. I could see that you're extremely active in many avenues and I just love to hear some of what you're up to these days.
[00:05:13] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm currently leading market access strategy and advising for a diagnostics company called RizLab Health, and they have a portable hemo analyzer that's really focused on enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities, which is really cool. I'm the managing partner for MediStrat360, so it's a consulting firm hyper focused on just medical device and accelerating that journey from concept to market for disruptive groundbreaking medical devices.
So those are the two things that I'm currently focused on, and then I have some senior advising positions for quality regulatory and clinical for a couple of additional companies, one that's focused on sleep apnea devices. And that one's under an NDA. And then another diagnostics company. So I've got four fractional-- with RizLabs is to focus on device commercialization, go to market strategy. And then the focus for some of the other ones very much centered around regulatory clinical quality.
[00:06:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yeah. So, so with that you mentioned that you were doing this preclinical research and decided to switch gears a little bit. And now you've got such a, an amazing breadth of skill sets and experience and expertise. And I'm kind of wondering, within medtech, what was the journey like to learning, all these different aspects that now you are such an expert in. For example, say regulatory.
[00:06:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I think for me, because you don't see that often, you see a lot of folks that start in one specific area with respect to medtech, and they develop a pretty comprehensive depth in that area over the span of 20 years. I would argue that I've had an extraordinary career and that has not been my journey. And that has not been my journey mainly because I took roles within companies that were either smaller or midsize, and there was always a willingness to proactively volunteer, not even volunteer, but proactively volunteer, raise my hand when people left or when certain gaps existed that needed to be filled, and then proactively choosing to look at issues that were going on within an organization more holistically outside of my department.
So just because my roles and responsibilities said I covered clinical didn't change the fact that I paid attention to a dynamic that said, there are reimbursement challenges that are happening. One, we were getting coverage and pushback from an insurance company tied to certain devices, engaging with an industry coalition to try and get some of those policies overturned, and recognizing that the information that I gained as a result of that experience identified certain gaps for the evidence portfolio for clinical affairs.
So how did that happen? I think that happened because I had a habit of, I'm choosing to pay attention to what the organization needed and choosing to see the links for the existing roles and responsibilities that I had, and how they bridged across the organization. And then being proactive, quite frankly, about when I was really dedicated to every company I worked for and readily dedicated to the mission that they had and choosing to take roles that I may not have been ready for or may not have had full core competencies for in an effort to support that organization. So in a lot of cases I took it on and I was, I became an obsession and I learned everything I could and I addressed certain gaps by bringing in additional expertise with the intent that we still got the organization's mission accomplished in spite of the deficiencies or gaps or turnover that was going on.
[00:08:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. I love that. You have been so curious and eager to learn and willing to step outside your roles and responsibilities and seek to understand what the organization needs. I'm sure that really helps now with your consulting work, because you're probably way better able to, and equipped to, find those gaps that you mentioned in a company's strategy or whatnot. And so I, what a strength to be able to bring that breadth of knowledge.
[00:09:34] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's interesting when clients approach me about a dynamic that says, "We have this challenge." It is a prism where that challenge ties to different additional facets of the organization or facets of their market commercialization strategy. So we end up providing value and feedback that's not only solving the problem they came to us with, but providing recommendations that have an impact across different facets within that organization or within that product commercialization strategy. And I'm telling you it's, it is, that is one, I would argue, differentiating value prop that I bring to the table on the consulting side is offering that feedback where it's not it's not one sided. It's got depth to it and it touches different dimensions because we're not looking at it just within the scope of the problem as it's presented.
[00:10:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. That's great. That's something very unique to be able to offer. And so, you know, that curiosity and growth mindset, willingness to fill in the gaps and figure out how to, where did that come from? Have you always been a very sort of curious, eager to learn, lifelong learner type individual, or is that something you developed over time?
[00:10:50] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Both, I'll say both. The lifelong learner piece, definitely a part of my personality my whole life, one. Two, I will also say I was lucky in having some phenomenal mentors and strategic leaders that drove that value and the importance of that value, and enforcing us to see the bigger picture and think more holistically. And so I started out with that as part of who I am. And then on top of that, it was further reinforced by having some fantastic leaders that I was lucky enough to work with and for that emphasized the importance of that.
[00:11:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And, you've mentioned having some amazing leaders that were in positions to really help mentor and guide and lead. And I'm wondering, what are some of the most impactful pieces of advice that you've received from leaders that you look up to and or now as accomplished leader yourself, what do you see as being some of the best pieces of leadership advice?
[00:11:54] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you some of my favorites on what makes a good leader and things to pay attention to as a good leader. So to me, anybody who's trying to explore a leadership role within medtech-- it's to everything we just talked about-- it's unbelievably important to choose to see beyond the expected. So have a deep understanding. If you're a project manager for R&D and you want to get promoted to, you want to move up the ladder, you having a deep understanding of the technical aspects of medical device is important, but it's just as important to cultivate a deep understanding of not only the technical, but the technical and business aspects. So the willingness to learn beyond the scope that you are assigned to, the willingness to recognize the importance of strategic thinking, is really important from a leadership standpoint.
Additional aspects that are important with respect to strategic thinking, don't be afraid to voice ideas, but be strategic about how and when you do that. So navigating a leadership role to me really requires developing a good acumen on knowing when to assert your ideas and when to hold back, learning how to read different situations and understand the dynamics at play. I think some of the most important advice I was ever given was that we all, especially when you join a new organization, we all have a proclivity for wanting to prove our value or demonstrate our value as soon as possible.
And some of the best advice I've given that I've passed along is to be strategic, is to be really good about proactively recognizing when it's a good opportunity for you to do that. And when you're better off holding back and listening and observing and understanding the dynamics of play and choosing your moments wisely on when you make impactful contributions, right? Doing that, you maximize the effectiveness of the input you provide and the influence that you end up having and sometimes holding back initially, choosing to observe and listen gives you insights that better inform your strategy for what to do or how to do it.
Building a network is also really important. That's another really good piece of leadership advice. We tend to keep our head down. Early on in my career, I definitely did that. I treat networking and the relationship management as a mandatory part of the job with roles I've had where I'm within an organization and outside of that. So I think that part is unbelievably important for leadership and success. And it's not just the creating a network offers job opportunities. It's creating a network offers opportunities to seek advice and to learn and to stay plugged in from an industry standpoint. So continuous learning is about being proactive and seeking those opportunities to challenge my current thinking, quite frankly, and expand my horizons from that standpoint.
[00:14:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. That was so much great advice. Thank you for sharing all of that. I think even the first thing you said, I really appreciated about, see beyond the expected. And I think that's such, I have never heard it put quite like that before, and I really like that of your willingness to go beyond your scope, so that you keep learning and I like your idea of continuing to even challenge your own beliefs and thoughts and processes. All those things. If you can keep doing that, then you're growing, you're learning, you can't stay stagnant that way. So yeah, I appreciate that advice a lot.
[00:15:38] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: One, to be clear, it comes from tons of mistakes made and lessons learned over a couple of decades for starting out in a technical role and a technical career. Those are common mistakes I see made, which is you're presenting to management on a project update, and the tendency for us technical folks, for people that started their careers out in science, is to very much focus on the technical aspects of what are going on without taking into account how that information is being presented, the impact that it's having on the politics and the different players in the room and their intent. So it's choosing to see things in a different light than the way that you're used to processing them is very important. Strategic thinking. It's different.
[00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And being willing, like you said, to look beyond and to approach things in a different way and maybe take a step back sometimes. Say, "Okay, I need to keep observing before I dive in with my solutions."
[00:16:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and take stretch rules. I think that's the other thing from a career development. Nobody owns your career. You own that. And If you love medtech, if you love whatever your profession may be, if your goal is advancement and leadership positions within that, but then that profession or that role, it's recognizing that you have to learn other things beyond just R&D if your goal is to manage a division or manage a sector . So I think, it's saying you're going to fulfill your roles and responsibilities and focus on accomplishing those goals, but be selfish about raising your hand for stretch opportunities that provide you exposure to other areas and dimensions of medtech that are outside of your scope, right? With the intent that you're getting that exposure is unbelievably important.
[00:17:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, I could not agree more. One thing that I noticed from just looking at your LinkedIn profile is you are very passionate about a lot of issues facing our society, our community. And, I saw some speaking opportunities and things where you focus on women's empowerment and whatnot. And I was wondering if you might share a little bit about your passions outside of work that do speak to it. So even with women's empowerment, encouraging women in the medtech field and whatnot, because we have listeners who might really appreciate some of your perspective and advice on that. Would you be willing to share?
[00:18:14] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Let's be very frank and transparent. I'm a woman that's been predominantly working in a male industry, and I've had some wonderful experiences, but I've also been granted some wonderful obstacles that tested my resilience and determination. I learned over time to see those challenges as an opportunity to strengthen my resolve and even my commitment. And so to me, a few pieces of advice to empower women as they navigate their own paths in leadership is to embrace your unique perspective. I think as women, we bring diverse experiences and insights to the table. And we should never underestimate the value of that viewpoint that we bring as women, right?
Early in my career, and I've run into a lot of women that feel this pressure, to posture, to present themselves with a set of characteristics that are more akin to male dominated characteristics versus owning their executive presence, and recognizing the value they bring in authenticity for presenting who they are authentically and not underestimating the value of their own viewpoint versus others complying with the mass or succumbing to the pressure. So I think it's unbelievably important to honor and respect and embrace that unique perspective that you bring as a woman, trusting your instincts and not being afraid to voice your ideas.
But again, unbelievably important to be strategic about when you choose to do that. And that piece of advice applies across both. And I think women have a tendency to coming into, especially high level, higher level management roles, a desire to want to prove our worth and prove we have a seat at the table. You have earned the right to sit at that table by default of the fact that you have been offered the job and you have it. Be smart, strategic about when and how you choose to weigh in, recognizing the politics at that same table, right? Is important.
And then advocating for yourself and others to the point that you made about, I do quite a bit of speaking. I am on a mission to drive transformative technologies within healthcare. I'm also on a secondary mission to enable an increase in the number of extraordinary women and their commitment to that mission, right? So advocacy, empowerment, education, training on communications and engagement for women is a focus and how I choose to spend my time with the intent that I sincerely believe the more women that you have, more women and more diversity, quite frankly, that you can have in medtech, the better devices and the higher the impact that you can have with respect to innovation in medtech and an impact that MedTech can have on healthcare. So to me, that is a focus.
[00:21:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, and I very much appreciate your perspective and your willingness to share about it. And the fact that this is a mission for you. So, thank you for continuing to support and elevate women in medtech, 'cause it's a need. And to your point, I appreciate you saying that women bring a unique perspective. And so that can be your superpower and you don't need to shrink.
[00:21:37] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: 100 percent and authenticity, Lindsey. I think women bring a unique perspective and value the power of authenticity. Resist the urge to position or posture or present yourself as "A" because you believe that "A" is what they want to see. There is unbelievable power in an executive presence of a woman leader that is authentic in the way she presents herself.
[00:22:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, could not agree more. Yeah, so, your career has been so interesting and I love the running theme of you being willing to continue to learn and grow and step out of the current role so that you can fill in the gaps. And I'm wondering if there are any moments that stand out to you where it just made you go, "Wow, I am really in the right place, at the right time, in the right industry."
[00:22:36] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So there's been a few of those, but I think one of the most memorable was when-- I have had a few leadership roles within Medtronic, and there's an annual event that gets held there where patients will are willing to share their stories with company employees. And listening to those stories, you realize what a difference we were making to the daily lives of those individuals. It was unbelievably moving and it gives you a renewed sense of hope. So we all in that office, especially, it's an extraordinary group of people that are working unbelievably hard and all of us were running at 90 and it's a constant hurricane of work, right? You lose sight. of how those hundred little activities we do every day are contributing in a transformational way to the lives of others. And sitting through that two hour testimonial set with those patients was a really emotional experience that kind of puts everything in perspective. That was a good what seven years plus now since I sat through that and it still resonates with me. I still think about it all the time.
[00:23:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really powerful too, to have those moments of realizing the impact that you're making and it is easy to get caught up in the daily grind. And, and forget that, oh my goodness is actually, this impacts somebody's life.
[00:24:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It brings it to focus, Lindsey. I loved that whole experience because, and I'm telling you, on the days when getting up in the morning is a little harder than others, it's a nice reminder to just force myself to recalibrate against that. And that we tolerate the craziness, we tolerate the difficulties, we tolerate the barriers and the more difficult days because we have an impact on the back end of the lives of other human beings. And that's the reason I've stayed in medtech for the last 20. There's something extraordinary about that. The ability to do that for someone else is amazing.
[00:24:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it's a gift and it's something to come back to when the days are hard and long and frustrating, because you really do know what you're doing matters. Yeah.
[00:24:52] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Exactly right.
[00:24:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be related to it. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:25:15] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Honestly, I would teach exactly what I'm, a lot of the time I'm teaching now, which is device commercialization. And, to your earlier question about give me a couple of things that inspired you and told you were right where you needed to be, I taught a course at University of New Mexico, their innovation center a few weeks ago. And one of the nicest comments I've ever gotten from a career perspective is somebody came up to me afterwards and said, "I've been working with folks for a decade plus, and this is the first time in my life I have gotten such a good training that I walked out having a solid understanding of how these pieces tie together from a regulatory perspective and commercialization perspective." So what would I teach exactly what I'm what a lot of the time I'm teaching now from a consulting perspective, which is device commercialization. I picked a career that, that I'm lit up by and that I'm inspired by. I'd be doing the exact same thing, Lindsey. I wouldn't change a thing.
[00:26:13] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's so great.
[00:26:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That's very special. I love that. Yeah. Okay. And then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:26:26] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: That I do quite a bit of mentoring. That I had an impact, that I inspired a group of people to maintain this mission to transforming healthcare. It's not just putting out and launching additional devices. It's sincerely a focus on looking at the areas across our healthcare system here in the U. S. and otherwise, and looking for opportunities to change the dynamic in a positive way. So after I die, what I want to be remembered for that the folks that I have, and I've taken on quite a bit over 20 years that I've tried to help grow and advance career wise that I inspired them to keep doing this. And I inspired them to do it well, and do it with integrity and do it right.
[00:27:16] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. And then final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:27:27] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I mean, personal, probably my cat. We have a British short hair that has an insanely cute face and it's impossible-- I don't care how stressful of a day I've had-- impossible not to crack a smile thinking about that fluff ball. So yeah, our cat for sure.
[00:27:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word, I love that. Animals are the best.
[00:27:49] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yes, well, and she's a recent addition. So we've had her a year. And it is definitely the stress buster.
[00:27:57] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect.
[00:27:59] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: For sure.
[00:28:00] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect. Animals are inherently just happiness. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I am so thankful for your willingness to share about your background and what you're up to now, but especially all of your advice. It was so packed full of just amazing pieces of advice to take away. And I really appreciate that you're willing to share all of that with us. So, gosh, thank you so much for your time and thank you for being here and and doing that. I really appreciate it.
[00:28:33] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and likewise, thank you for doing this again. I'm a huge advocate for getting more folks and more people and more women and more individuals involved in medtech, and recognizing the phenomenal opportunities that medtech brings from a career standpoint. And so thank you for doing this because you're spreading that message and educating people on other career options besides, you know, firefighter, doctor, lawyer, engineer. So we appreciate what you're doing too, Lindsey, this is great.
[00:29:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. That made my day
[00:29:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's important. We got to spread the message.
[00:29:09] Lindsey Dinneen: it's very true. It's very true. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:29:55] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Harout Markarian | Founder, MARKBOTIX | Empowering Independence with Assistive Robotics & His Passion for Helping People

Harout Markarian, founder and CEO of MARKBOTIX, shares his journey from Lebanon to the US, transitioning from a professional basketball player to a skilled roboticist. He discusses his educational background in mechanical engineering, robotics, and business, leading to the creation of MARKBOTIX. The company develops GRACE, an assistive robot for the elderly and disabled, aiming to reduce falls and improve quality of life. Harout's passion for engineering and helping people drives his mission to enhance independent living and accessibility.
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haroutmarkarian/ | https://www.markbotix.com/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 039 - Harout Markarian
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce to you as my guest today, Harout Markarian. Harout is the founder and CEO of MARKBOTIX, an innovative assistive robotics startup focused on transforming care for the elderly and individuals with disabilities.
Harout, a skilled roboticist with multiple patents, holds a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering, a master's in robotics, and an MBA. His professional path has been marked by significant leadership roles in engineering at top firms, including the Boeing company, where he designed the air refueling flight controls algorithm for the Boeing C 17.
At MARKBOTIX, Harout's team is developing GRACE, Ground Robotic Assistant for Care Enablement, robot designed to reduce risks of falls, hospital readmission rates, and caregiver burnout, while providing support for everyday tasks. Under his leadership, MARKBOTIX has garnered significant interest, including over a hundred letters of intent from various facilities and is currently involved in beta testing with organizations like the VA Hospital.
Harout is also a published author and speaker, advocating for the right use of robotics to improve independent living and accessibility through his book, "Mobility and Inclusion." His work extends beyond business as he actively contributes to the community, particularly through support for organizations aiding the elderly and individuals with mobility challenges.
All right. Well, welcome Harout. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to talk with you.
[00:02:23] Harout Markarian: Likewise.
[00:02:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, I wondered if you wouldn't mind starting off by just telling us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your background and maybe how you got into medtech.
[00:02:36] Harout Markarian: Sure. So I, I am an immigrant from Lebanon, a former professional basketball player, danced ballet for a little bit, and at one point ,my parents decided to immigrate to the United States. Needless to say that my academic career was a tremendously suffering when I was busy with the basketballs and the ballet dances of the world. So, so when they decided to immigrate to the United States. States. I was strongly against it, but deep down I knew that my parents always did things for the benefit of me and my sister. So, unwillingly I followed them. I came to the United States in 2008. I was 23, about to be 24 years old.
And at that time, basically everything that I knew disappeared from my life. Everything that was normal to me disappeared. So I had to do something. I had no money. My parents didn't come with money. So I had to support, I had to help, so I worked full time as a waiter and I was also going to school full time to continue my undergrad in mechanical engineering. Mind you that I already completed three years of engineering back in Lebanon. When I got here, they said, "Oh the institution that you attended is not accredited." And my luck, I guess the institution got accredited a year after I left.
[00:04:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, no.
[00:04:05] Harout Markarian: But it was a blessing in disguise. As I said, I wasn't the best student at the time. So the grades were reflective of that too. So, now that everything is no, no more distractions were in my life, I focused on my studies, finished three years of undergrad in mechanical engineering in a year and a half. My GPA went from 1. 8 to 3. 5 by the time I graduated. And during my final year when I was developing the senior design with my team, I experienced a tremendous shift in my life because I was part of this project where we built a six foot tall, fully autonomous robot. And we won the first place internationally in the autonomous unmanned system vehicle international competition.
And that was a really a shift in my career in the way I viewed engineering, I viewed education, because up until that point, it was just to satisfy my parents. I'm like, "Here you go. This is the paper you wanted. Get off my back." But ,but right after that, it was like, okay, I want to know more about this robotics world because I really enjoyed it and I'm very curious individual. So robotics has different disciplines, sub disciplines I should say. So there's a mechanical design team, there's the cognition vision team, there's the electrical team, there's a navigation team. So, and I wanted to learn it all and I got involved with everything. And I really enjoyed it.
So I ended up pursuing my master's immediately right after I graduated my bachelor's degree. I pursued my master's in robotics, and I was the only one in my cohort or not just cohort, in that year, that opted out of the, the comprehensive exam and wanted to do a thesis dissertation. Because I really enjoyed it. For me, theory alone doesn't mean anything. I need to see it in application. And that's kind of how I pursued it. I was able to build a stair climbing wheelchair. And that's a scale prototype of a stair climbing wheelchair that I presented it to my thesis committee and I learned a lot. I learned a lot and I graduated, but mind you at this time, I'm already working, I'm five years into my, my career in aerospace and defense. So things are going well. Really nothing medtech or healthcare related in my life yet. Except for that stair climbing wheelchair.
And, and the reason for that is because I had the opportunity to work with a severely paralyzed person on brain computer interface technology that allowed him to propel his wheelchair through his thoughts. And when I got signed up to this project, I said, "Oh, moving things with your thoughts. That's cool. Let's do it." So, but I was approaching it like so mindlessly, if you will, because I didn't understand the impact that could have on individuals, especially individuals with disabilities, individual with limited mobility and elderly and everything in between.
So while we were testing this technology with this individual, it required some training, basically. It's like an electrode that attaches to your skull. So it's a helmet that you wear. And as you think thoughts, it transfers to electrical signals that moves, that propels the wheelchair, moves the motors, right? A very simplistic way of explanation, of course. And, I was trying to test it by myself. So wearing the helmet, trying to move this wheelchair one way or the other. And it was very difficult because it's not second nature to me. I don't, I'm not a wheelchair user. So I, that's not a thing in my mind, but for this individual who was a paraplegic, it was, that was his legs basically. So for him, it was very second nature, right? So, and he got on there and I put the helmet on, set up everything for him and he was driving his wheelchair like I drive my car. That, that, that's how second nature it was for him. And for a moment there, I felt like I was the one with the disability. I couldn't even move a freaking wheelchair with my, so that was a big lesson for me in terms of understanding how limited we can be in, in different aspects of our lives, right?
So, at that point I was, that was the first time I realized when I saw how independence and accessibility, what it meant to that individual. That was the first time in my life I said that I want to start a robotics company to help people become more independent. So, so to, to make their environment more accessible for them and to o for the elderly, to have them age with dignity. And that was the purpose. But nothing happened. I just continued with my life, with my job in the aerospace and defense industry.
And then sometime later I decided, okay, I think I have a decent background in the technical side of things. I don't know much about business. Let's go get an MBA. So, so, so I went back to school. I did MBA at Pepperdine University. And I loved it because Pepperdine, at least the cohort that I was in and the teacher that I had, everybody was industry professionals and had their PhDs in their respective fields. So it wasn't, I wasn't just learning theory. I was learning how to apply that theory to real world problems. And that's how I learned that. That's where I thrive, right. And once, once I graduated with my my master's degree from Pepperdine, I, next day I went and incorporated the company. Literally the next day I went there and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to incorporate the company." And that's how MARKBOTIX was born.
I'm not a hundred percent medtech. I'm approaching medtech from a different angle, if you will. But part of that, when I incorporated the company, I didn't really know what products or service I was really gonna offer. I knew who I wanted to serve, who were the people with disabilities, elderly, people in home cares, assisted living facilities. But I didn't know how to best serve them and with what. So I took a year and a half of going around and talking to people, basically doing customer discovery.
And part of that customer discovery session, I stumbled upon the Ground Robotic Assistant for Care Enablement, which we call GRACE now. And all that robot does it initially, at least all that it did, was to pick items up, retrieve items for individuals so they don't risk a fall and then now they're in back in hospital or they injured something. And we're talking about fragile people, right? So when they injure something, the repercussions from it is really could, it could be hefty basically. And as I kept on talking to people, I built this prototype that retrieves items initially, and I tested it with over 300 people, and the more I tested it, the more apparent the need was. People were actually helping me feature up. So, we started with item retrieval, it went to real time video and audio interaction, remote operability, and other stuff that were included in the robot that right now is in development mode.
And that's brings me to today where we're raising our first round of funding to bring this to life. We have a bunch of letters of intents from assisted living facilities and somewhere along the way that the DOD got interested in it. We got in contact with the Veterans Hospital. So everybody seems very interested in working with us. So we're, so today we're raising our first round of funding to bring this to life.
[00:11:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. That's incredible. Well, there's so much to your story. I'm so excited to dive in deeper. But first of all, congratulations on your company and its success and the interest, and I'm so excited because I know you're going to be helping so many people and there's such a need for it. So kudos.
[00:12:18] Harout Markarian: That's the goal. Yep. Thank you.
[00:12:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, okay. So your story is so interesting and it has so many different twists and turns. And I'm kind of curious, especially knowing, you started off with basketball and ballet and you did your academics of course, but maybe that wasn't quite the focus, could eight year old you have ever pictured you now doing what you're doing?
[00:12:44] Harout Markarian: No. So two things. So I knew I wanted to be an engineer, even though I didn't know what that meant at that time. Ever since I was young, I knew I wanted to be an engineer, but I can confidently tell you that I didn't know what that meant. I just, my dad was a mechanic body shop person. He was an entrepreneur. He has his own place. So I thought that was, that's what I was going to be doing if I studied engineering. So that was stupid I was. The other thing is that, no, I mean, my dad was also a professional basketball player.
[00:13:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
[00:13:15] Harout Markarian: So, so having those two in mind, eight year old me would never picture me being here today, let alone leaving the country, right?
[00:13:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, do you still do anything with either basketball or ballet or has?
[00:13:29] Harout Markarian: No, I don't actually want. So once I left both ballet or dancing in general and basketball, I just completely abandoned it.
[00:13:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Ah, okay. Fair enough. Do you miss it?
[00:13:43] Harout Markarian: No, I don't, because I mean, it was good while I did it and I did it for a long period, I mean, relatively long period of time. So I did dancing for about 10, 12 years. And basketball, I did it from 16 when I went to professional to 23 years, 23 years old. I mean, relatively short career. But for me, my biggest passion was basketball. Just seeing my dad play, and then me being in that world. It was the biggest passion, and when it was taken away from me, or however you want to look at it, or I gave it up. I didn't give it up. I didn't want to give it up. Even long after it was over, I didn't want to accept that was not part of my life anymore. I was passionless for a while. So, finding that robotics world where I'm interested in something again, was a big shift for me.
[00:14:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really big deal. And that is hard, but I feel like it speaks a lot also to your resilience and your willingness to, to change and to pivot, as much as that word is overused. But you know, the thing is you have such a growth mindset, clearly. I mean, you're such a lifelong learner, you've gone and done the things that you wanted to do, but those aren't easy things that you've decided to do and you've had such a robust career so far. I mean, I love the fact that I think you're such a great testament to the ability to keep learning and keep enhancing your skillsets and keep going even when it is frustrating or you feel like you've lost this crucial part of you, but you still are able to keep going and do something amazing with your life. I think that's...
[00:15:24] Harout Markarian: Absolutely.
[00:15:25] Lindsey Dinneen: ...courage.
[00:15:26] Harout Markarian: I mean, I mean, you have to do that because the only constant in your life is change. So you either adapt or you just fall behind and become miserable. And everything bad that goes, that follows that, right? So, if you don't change, time is moving forward, so you're just falling behind.
[00:15:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You started off in your career working for others and you had a amazing experiences, it sounds like, with very well known companies and brands, and then you switched to starting your own business and I know you got your MBA and I'm sure that helps you feel more prepared, but I do feel like there's often this-- once you actually do it, how much you have to learn on the job, so to speak. So I would love if you wouldn't mind speaking about your entrepreneurial journey and how that has changed and grown over time.
[00:16:15] Harout Markarian: Yeah, so, so I'll tell you that college education doesn't mean that you're going to be able to thrive in the business world, right? Whether it's a technical side of thing or the business side of things. Unless you dive in there and do it yourself, you're just going to be dumber than a bag of rocks. So, I'm sorry for the expression, but that's that's how it is. Basically what engineering taught me is how to figure things out. They didn't teach me to find a job and hit the road running with that job, right. So everywhere I went, every company I worked for, I had to restart from scratch, go into my baggage of tools that college education gave me and depending on these knowledges, just figure out how to do my current job today and how to learn more. Because what you learn in school is just a baseline thing. It's just nothing really.
And nowadays you can learn anything and everything online. I would even argue that nowadays, unless you're a doctor or an engineer a lawyer, maybe you don't really have to go to school. Everything else can be learned online. And there's a lot of resources today that back 10, 15 years ago, we didn't have. So on the job learning is the most real thing anyone can ever think of. Pepperdine came really close because I did my actual business plan to the company that I'm building today, I did it at Pepperdine. So it was a benefit for me because I studied, I got my education at the same time I worked on my business, so that's why I liked it a lot. But don't think that you're going to go to college and you're going to take a job.
And all employers know, by the way, all employers know that they're going to teach you a lot when they hire you, they're just hiring you based on, I don't know, your enthusiasm, the willingness to learn, willingness to be adaptable, your demeanor, your behavior. That's what they're hiring. And I'm a Director of Engineering right now at different companies. So I hire people all the time. So that I don't hire them. I don't expect them to know things. I expect them to know basic things, but I don't expect them to hit the ground running regardless of where they are in their career.
[00:18:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Sure. So when you stepped into this, this entrepreneurial journey, and you're the owner of a company, you are the leader of this vision-- did you find that to be a relatively easy transition because of the past experiences that you'd had? Or was that element of stepping into this high leadership role, was that, yeah, difficult in any way?
[00:18:56] Harout Markarian: In different things that I tried in my life, I felt like I was always adaptable. I was always willing to learn. And I never quit. I failed a lot, but I never quit. Right? So I feel like that definitely contributed to, to how I'm managing myself in this role. Is it easy? It's not easy at all. It's difficult. Whoever tells you starting a company, building a company is easy, it's out of their mind, especially in the beginning stages. Because having other people get on board and see your vision, it's the toughest challenge a founder can embark on. So if you overcome that, then you definitely have what it takes to lead a company.
[00:19:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. And so are there any moments that stand out to you as you've started this company or even prior to that, where it just kind of confirmed to you, "Yes, I am in the right industry, at the right time for a purpose." Was there like a moment that you thought, "Wow, this is why I'm here."
[00:20:05] Harout Markarian: Well, first and foremost, I pray to God every day. I asked God for his guidance. If it's not part of his plans, please give me a sign. So I just go do something else, right? And till now he didn't give me any sign to abandoning it, but or I'm that, I'm just that's too but that i'm not realizing it but no, that's that's my first go to right? I always embark on my day, on my journey, by asking God to guide me through it. Having said that, the countless numbers of interviews and research that I've done-- and this, mind you, this is not leveraged research-- this is me talking to people one on one. So over 1000 interviews over the past year and a half, or almost two years talking to people, it was reassuring to me that, okay, this is needed and I'm going to be helping a lot of people.
And that's really what kept me on this journey. Just now I feel responsible for all the people I talked to. I have a responsibility to see this through. If I focus on the competitors, the market, the investment, the investor, then I would give up long time ago. Then that's not the right way because the market, the investor, the Investment, they didn't do the work I did in terms of talking to the end user and how it's going to benefit them. So they don't really know that, they don't understand that. So it's my job to, we talked about vision, it's my job to clarify the vision to the investor, in this case. So it sees that how many people is going to benefit from this. So that was the reassuring factor. Conducting that customer discovery was so important. Because that sets the expectations for myself and everyone I talk to.
[00:21:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. I think it's helpful, so helpful to have those moments, something to hold on to when it does get hard because it's inevitably going to get hard and frustrating and discouraging at times. So being able to go, "Oh, wow. But I know this is impacting people. And if I don't do it, will anybody else?" That's, but that's powerful to motivate you.
[00:22:22] Harout Markarian: Yeah, and I mean, I want more people to do what I'm doing because the market supports it, right? Just, we're talking right now, a little left brain, right? Logic. The market supports it, there's gonna be more people older people. The elderly population is increasing, is going to get bigger. So there should be more companies like mine addressing the same need because one or two or three companies are not going to be able to close the gap.
[00:22:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So what are you most looking forward to both perhaps personally and then professionally with your business? What is on the horizon that you're excited about?
[00:23:02] Harout Markarian: Personally, I just want to enjoy my family, enjoy my wife, my kids, my parents before they're gone, because of everyone, everyone's going to leave at one point. So I would love to have some quality time with my parents, with my kids, with my wife. That's on the personal side. That's what's really meaningful to me.
On the business side, I just want to add value to people. Hopefully this will be the vehicle, how I'd be able to do that. And as I said, I feel like I have the responsibility right now to see this through just because of all the conversations that I've had with people with different disabilities, with different challenges that this technology could help them overcome that.
[00:23:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And it's exciting. You're in a really exciting growth phase too. So there's a lot to, a lot to be joyful about, I suppose.
[00:23:54] Harout Markarian: Yeah.
[00:23:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's amazing. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:24:12] Harout Markarian: For them to be connected with God more because I feel like, and I don't know if I'm the right person to teach that, right? But because everything else doesn't matter. Everything else is temporary. I think the divine is, is the only thing that is not temporary. Your spirit, your soul is the only thing that is not temporary. Your challenges, your difficulties, your tough times, your good times, your money, your lack of money, all of that is temporary. What's not temporary is your soul and spirit and what happens to it afterwards. So, a lot of people today are behind social media and the fakeness of the world. And that's what I want to separate myself from, and see if I had the opportunity, I would just teach people to be more authentic and more connected to God.
[00:24:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:25:05] Harout Markarian: I don't know if I want to be remembered, but if I do good to people, if I serve people in this world, in my time here hopefully I'll I please my God. And that's what's important to me, because pleasing God is serving others. So that's what it means to me. If I do that, then hopefully I'm pleasing God and helping people in the way. That's my thing.
I don't know what being remembered means really who's remembering me, right? That's the question that I always ask and I wasn't always I didn't always think this way. I didn't always think this way. I always said to myself, okay, I want to be remembered like this great athlete, for example, right, when I played basketball. Or I want to be remembered like the person who founded the biggest assisted robotics company in the world. All that doesn't mean anything, because all that is material stuff, in my humble opinion. And I'm not saying I'm right, right? This is how I think. As, as long as I'm serving others, I'm helping others, hopefully doing it in a gracious way, that's what I'm looking for.
[00:26:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's incredible and that's, I frankly wish that more people felt that way. So I think that's a, I
[00:26:15] Harout Markarian: Well, I, it's a hard thing to do and I'm not saying I'm doing it perfectly. Sometimes we have a lot of distractions. That's not the norm So if we follow what's around us, then we're not going to think that way and I struggle with it too. So I constantly strive to keep myself true to what I just said right now.
[00:26:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yep. There you go. And then, final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:26:42] Harout Markarian: Oh, my kids. My son is five, my daughter is two ,and they're hilarious, even when they're a pain in my ass, so. So, sometimes the things they say is, and then, I like to also I'm a light guy. I like to think that I'm a light guy, so everything is a joke to me. I don't take a lot of things seriously. So I'm always giving people hard time kind of in a humorous way. So I like to pick on my wife, pick on my sisters. So these kinds of things make me smile. Sometimes it's stupid. Sometimes it's makes others smile to you, but it's just light stuff. I just enjoy my life, enjoy the time I have with the people I love the most.
[00:27:20] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's fantastic. Yeah, well, first of all, again, thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights. And, it's so interesting to me how you have had such resilience and a growth mindset and now discovered this sense of humor as well. I mean, I'm sure that helped exponentially as you had to go through so many different iterations or stages or seasons, whatever you want to call it of your life. And some of them sounds quite difficult. So I just want to say thank you for sharing that story and thank you for talking about it and giving inspiration and hope to somebody else who might also be in maybe a transition period or something like that, where it might be a little harder. So I, anyway, just... thank you.
[00:28:05] Harout Markarian: And I, I don't downplay the challenges, right? Of course I recognize them, but I just choose to take it lightly because as I said, nothing is permanent. Everything is temporary, so don't think too much about it. Just, pray and move along.
[00:28:23] Lindsey Dinneen: That should be on a t shirt that you sell or something.
[00:28:26] Harout Markarian: Yeah, that's a good idea. I might I'm that might be merchandise. I'll say I sell on MARKBOTIX's website.
[00:28:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Please do. That's amazing. I love it. Oh my gosh. That's so fun. Well, this has been such a great conversation. I've enjoyed it so much and I'm very appreciative of you spending some time with me today and talking, and we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today. And that is to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:29:11] Harout Markarian: Thank you so much. And thank you for your time as well, Lindsey.
[00:29:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:29:25] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Ashley Mooneyham & Jennie Lynch | Co-Founders, Momease | Bridging Science, Motherhood, & Femtech

Ashley Mooneyham and Jennie Lynch are the co-founders of Momease. Ashley, a PhD-trained scientist and melanoma survivor, shares her journey from cancer biology research to developing an innovative breast pump solution inspired by her own motherhood challenges. Jennie, a serial nonprofit entrepreneur, discusses her transition to the MedTech industry and the importance of supporting new mothers. Together, they highlight their mission to create a pumping bra with warmth and massage, aiming to improve the breastfeeding experience for women. Their story is one of passion, innovation, and dedication to advancing women's health.
 
Guest links: https://www.momeasesolutions.com/ | www.linkedin.com/company/momeasesolutions/ | www.instagram.com/momease_solutions/ | https://www.facebook.com/MomeaseSolutionsInc/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 038 - Ashley Mooneyham & Jennie Lynch
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guests today. They are Ashley Mooneyham and Jennie Lynch. Ashley is the CEO and co founder of Momease with experience as a mother and as a PhD trained scientist to lead research and development. Jennie is the president and co founder of Momease. She is a serial entrepreneur in the nonprofit space with customer base experience leading operations.
Well, thank you so much for being here, Ashley and Jennie. I'm so excited to speak with both of you today.
[00:01:33] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you.
[00:01:34] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, thank you for having us.
[00:01:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by sharing just a little bit about yourself, your background, and maybe what led you to MedTech. Ashley, do you want to start us off and we'll go from there?
 
[00:01:48] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, sure. So my background is in kind of your traditional laboratory research science. I did choose to pursue a PhD in cancer biology, and that was motivated both by my own personal experiences as a melanoma survivor, as well as, of course, knowing so many people who suffer from cancer and are impacted by cancer. I really wanted to make a difference there. And I very much intentionally chose a laboratory for my thesis work that focused on ovarian cancer research because I've always been really passionate about how scientific discovery can impact human health. And of course, as we're all aware, women's health kind of lags behind. So we need more women in science to be asking those questions and pursuing those answers when it comes to translating scientific discovery into impacting women clinical outcomes.
And I really enjoyed my thesis work, but I felt far from making that clinical impact. I was doing the traditional bench work, working with mice in the basement of my university, and I just wanted to get a bit closer to the action. So after my PhD, I became a medical writer at Superior Medical Experts, which is a Minnesota small business focused on medical writing and research support. And I actually was quickly promoted to their Director of Grants, where I helped small businesses in the medical device industry pursue federal grant funding to de risk their medical innovation. So I got to learn a lot of varieties of discipline within scientific medical device and technology innovation, and got really excited at helping them secure funding to see their idea come to life. And I've actually worked with a few companies that since working with them have made it to clinical use of their innovative technology, which was super rewarding.
Then in April 2021, I had my daughter, she's 3 years old now. And I kind of naively thought it would be easy to go back to work after that experience. But a huge pain point in my going back to work was. trying to maintain my breast milk supply for her via the breast pump. So that kind of leads into the origins of Momease solutions, but I'll save that for after Jennie gets a chance to introduce herself as well.
[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Thank you. Jennie?
[00:04:15] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, so my background is I'm a serial non profit entrepreneur. So I founded two Minnesota based non profits focused on child development and family well being. So mostly doing the business operations and development for those two non profit organizations. The first one is Monarch Montessori School, a traditional children's house Montessori that's really rooted in the literature that supports best pedagogies for optimal child development, as well as Kaleidoscope Learning. That's my second non profit, which is a family community and resource center, just a one stop shop for families to be able to get all the best practices associated with raising their children ages birth to six years old.
I frequently work with the population that is going to be Momease solutions' customer base. So I love working with mothers, women who are pregnant or newly postpartum and are going through the very wonderful, but very precarious kind of transition into motherhood. So that's kind of where my background is. I do not have a medtech background. But I'm somebody who's really passionate about looking at the literature when it's related to child development. So what is the optimal strategy in order to really nurture a person's early development related to cognitive, physical, social, emotional development. I originally got connected with Ashley through Mutual Business Connections and I instantly loved the idea. I saw how it would be used by the women who I currently work with and just really recognized that it was a really special product. So I officially joined the team in 2023.
[00:06:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Nice. Well, congrats. How exciting. Yeah. So I love it. So would you mind telling us a little bit more about Momease and just maybe the origin story.
[00:06:19] Ashley Mooneyham: So yeah. So like I said, I had my daughter in April of 2021. I was able to nurse her without issue for eight weeks during my maternity leave and I was so excited about that because the American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Health Organization, they all recommend exclusive breast milk nutrition through six months of age. To Jennie's point to try to promote the health of our next generation with cognitive ability and various health indications that research shows are improved with that breast milk nutrition. And I really wanted that for my daughter if I could achieve it. I was grateful to not have issues nursing, but when I went back to work, I thought kind of naively that I would be able to use the breast pump to continue to feed her breast milk, even though I was remote and away.
And unfortunately, that was not the case, which is a super common issue with women. I had to pump three or four sessions to get one bottle for my daughter, so I was really working overtime, trying to do enough breast pump sessions to maintain my breast milk supply. And I was sitting at the breast pump for far too long, usually 20 to 30 minutes a session, increasing the suction power to a level that caused discomfort just in my attempt to provide my daughter with the nutrition I felt that she needed. And I was really frustrated by that because I knew, based on my successful nursing journey, that I did provide enough breast milk for her. I simply wasn't able to collect it. So the issue was with the collection mechanism.
And with my background in science, I immediately sought answers. How can I improve this experience, just for me personally, on the onset. And I did find academic studies that showed if you apply a warm compress while using a breast pump, you get more milk in less time. If you use a hand massage technique while using a breast pump, you get more milk in less time. And anecdotally, that was true. If I applied a warm compress, if I put pressure on my breasts while using a suction based breast pump, it worked. And that made sense to me because a nursing infant is doing a lot more than sucking breast milk. They're also using the warmth of their mouths and the pressure of their jaw and hands in a combination to efficiently nurse. So adding these elements back in made perfect sense.
The issue is it's not convenient. Using a breast pump is already not convenient and having all of these extra tasks while using a breast pump certainly wasn't convenient. So I literally went to Google and looked for a product that could warm and massage the breasts while I was using a breast pump in order to maintain these improved results. And I didn't find one. And I was really shocked by that. I was like, "How could this not exist when there is evidence that it works?" And I'm having personal anecdotal experience that it works. I was so disappointed.
And I sat with that disappointment for a couple of months and then realized, "Well, it doesn't exist because people like me just sit disappointed." You kind of have to get up and get going to solve the problems, especially that you see personally. And the whole first year of business before we had a lot of funding in the door, I made sure to broadly collect women's experiences with the breast pump, and I learned really quickly that I was not alone.
Our first customer discovery survey received 1, 200 responses in 24 hours, which is incredible and unexpected. I just put it out over my personal Facebook to start and it got picked up and got a lot of responses. And that alone, I think, really speaks to how passionate women are about wanting a solution and how desperate they are for wanting a solution. And every day that keeps Jennie and I going. Every day that we pitch this, every day that we talk about this, more and more women say how much this is needed and how much they're rooting for us. And that, that's our big motivation.
[00:10:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Wow. That is incredible. Thank you for sharing that story. And even the, I love the personal connection, but then the fact that just within 24 hours, like you said, of your own personal network, you've got this amazing response of all these women saying, "Yes, I am in the same boat or I've experienced this. Please help." I love that. So then Jennie, you're coming into this from your business development, business strategy background. And I'm wondering, how have you been able to to bring Momease along as it continues to grow and opportunities continue to come for it. And then what are you excited about as we go towards the future?
[00:11:06] Jennie Lynch: Yeah. So that's a really good question. Momease is pre launch. So, I'm continuously just having conversations with mothers, continue to get that feedback, that customer discovery. Again, being pre launched most of my focus at the moment is long term business development strategies. So just thinking about those things ahead of time, but also just day to day operational things. I'm definitely excited as we move towards launch of the product. I think that I would love to see this product in people's hands. We're currently prototyping. So just seeing women use it, as well as getting their initial feedback is something I'm just very excited about.
[00:11:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. So in this pre launch stage, I know you have a bazillion things going on, I'm sure, and there's lots to think about and a lot of exciting things happening, but what's the next step for you at this point? You have some funding, it sounds like, but now what's coming up, the very next thing?
[00:12:08] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. So I don't know that we've said explicitly, but just in case anyone isn't aware, we are trying to create a pumping bra with built in warmth and massage. So that's the product that we're seeking to create. And we did receive funding last year from the National Institutes of Health to pursue this, which is really exciting. So the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development awarded us a Phase I grant to do the prototyping that we're currently underway with and achieve our proof of concept ahead of validating it and then launching the product.
So right now we're definitely in that proof of concept prototyping phase. We have seen promising early results that we were hoping to see. And now it's a matter of kind of fine tuning the product at this early stage so that when it hits the market it's more than functional, it's convenient to use. We want this to be very clear that it is a product with integrity that was also designed by a mother for mothers, designed by women for women. I think that is something that this market is looking for, and women's products are booming right now. So I feel like this is right place, right time for us to enter and hit that inflection point.
[00:13:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, congratulations on all of the success so far. I know it's not been an easy road. I'm sure there have been lots of late nights and stressful days, but you're doing it. So that's amazing. And thank you for bringing this to market because it's so needed. And I'm curious, is your goal to be able to provide this directly to consumers? Are you hoping to have an intermediary? What are your thoughts with that? Because I'm sure some people are so excited to go, "When is this going to be real?"
[00:13:59] Ashley Mooneyham: That's such a good question.
[00:14:00] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, absolutely. So we have two ways we would love to enter the market. The first one is traditional business to consumer channels, so sales directly through our website, maybe at brick and mortar stores, big box stores, boutiques, being listed on online retailer websites. Just the traditional ways you can get a consumer good into your hands. The second channel is more business to business. We would love to sell directly to NICU units. We have heard from NICU units or individuals who work in NICU units that this is something that would be really beneficial, as well as we would love to reach out to breast pump manufacturers who might be interested in bundling our product with their breast pumps to have that kit mothers can buy right away that will have a synergistic effect right from the get go. So those are two go to market strategies.
[00:14:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Well, that is very exciting. So as you've been going on this journey, and I'm sure you've had amazing days. I'm sure you've had some discouraging days. Are there any moments that stand out to you as really clarifying to you that you are in the right place at the right time doing what you are meant to do?
[00:15:18] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, absolutely. I think one that I already mentioned was that first customer discovery survey. That's one of the first things I did after formally launching this business. And it's been a through line ever since. It's a touch point that we can constantly go back to that validates why we're doing what we're doing and that it's worth pursuing.
And then shortly after that, I did start participating in pitch competitions where I was able to present this idea more widely. And the first competition that we ever entered was the HyVee Opportunity Summit, which was hosted at US Bank Stadium. And we were selected as, I think, a top nine finalist to pitch from over 900 applicants. And during that pitch contest, we took home grand prize. So out of the top nine, we got the number one prize slot. And I distinctly remember getting down from that stage so shocked that we were able to secure the grand prize our first pitch competition, but feeling so proud that what we're trying to do resonated and literally women came up to us with tears in their eyes.
And I, it just, it was so buoying. It really felt like, "Oh, this is something that matters. It's something that is beyond a solution for just myself." But 97 percent of our survey responders said that they were dissatisfied with the breast pump. And that's such an incredible dissatisfaction rate for such an essential piece of technology.
So those were two big wins for us early on. And then later last year when we were able to receive validation also from this huge federal scientific body that what we're doing is beyond like a feel good mission. It has scientific merit. It has significant potential to impact not only women's health, but human health by nourishing that next generation. That was a big win as well. And we're so excited for all of that collective experience to be really able to dig in this year to the research and development and start to make this idea a reality.
[00:17:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And Jennie?
[00:17:30] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, kind of echoing Ashley, she hit some of our big milestones in 2023. This year, I've had a couple friends and family members who've had little ones, and it's just been really interesting seeing a lot of my friends and how they're coming into motherhood. And how this product is something that they're probably not going to be using it for this child, but maybe in the future. And they're just really excited for us to be able to launch our product and for them to use it in the future. So that's something, just that verbal reassurance from our community is something that I think is what keeps us going.
[00:18:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course, that makes so much sense, and I'm so glad you have that, so much social proof, the stories of the people who are coming up to you, and then you've also, like you said, have this tangible grant that really did help say, "Yeah, this is very important, this is very needed," and I'm sure those things really help on the difficult days, so I'm so glad you have all of that.
But speaking of difficult days, I am wondering, in this journey, I'm sure there have been lots of ups and downs. What are some of the things that you have maybe been surprised about as you have gone about this new journey? And I know, Jennie, there's a lot of entrepreneurial endeavors in your background, but just in general, when you're getting into a new thing, there's always unexpected things that pop up. So just curious as anything come up for you yet?
[00:19:02] Jennie Lynch: Something that I have found unexpected and slightly challenging at times, something that Ashley and I constantly are thinking about is, how we're kind of in this in between space where we're kind of known as a consumer good, yet we are a medical device, and it's been really hard to communicate some of the challenges related to being in that in between space with a lot of either investors or cheerleaders or people who are just interested in our product. We're more complicated than that average consumer good, yet we're not going to be put into the body. We're not as technical as maybe other medical devices that are on the market. So we really are in this in between space and there aren't too many players who are as well, at least that we've come across in our own journey. So that is a weird thing that we've run into is how do we effectively communicate where we are on the market and the importance of the product.
[00:19:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And Ashley?
[00:20:01] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. Jennie hit the nail on the head that continues to be a thorn in our side, but we are getting better and better at navigating this middle ground and explaining that's actually our secret sauce in a lot of ways, that we're not a simple consumer good, and we're not a complicated medical device. We exist in this elegant in between to hopefully be that solution. And then I think just what a lot of founders can relate to, the only other major challenge is fundraising for the effort and being really careful with the funds that we have raised to make sure that we can go as far as possible and really time the spends strategically. So that's been something that we're constantly evaluating, making sure that we're using our funds responsibly and constantly have our eye on future fundraise efforts to make sure that there's no major gap in funding that could hinder our progress. And I will just say having a co founder like Jennie through this experience has made every challenge much more bearable. So, I'm so glad that we get to go through it together. The hard days are much easier having a co founder like Jennie by my side and the good days are even more fun to celebrate.
[00:21:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. So you both are absolute powerhouse women. I got to take a look at your LinkedIn profiles and I was just really admiring everything that you have done in your past, your education, your expertise, and then your commitment to community and the fact that you're still actively volunteering and you're doing all of these things. And it really struck me as not only incredibly impressive, but also I just have to ask, do you sleep?
[00:21:42] Ashley Mooneyham: I mean, I have a two month old at home, so no. But I will say, that gives me extra waking hours in the day, so that's always good. I don't know how Jennie does it.
[00:21:55] Jennie Lynch: Man, I think similar to Ashley, I do have a good support network and I think that makes all the difference. I don't think that I could achieve what I have without the friends and family who continue to uplift me. So that's what keeps me going too.
[00:22:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Good reminder about the importance of community, absolutely. That's phenomenal. What is your top piece of advice you have for other women medtech founders specifically, or women medtech leaders.
[00:22:27] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah. I mean, it's something I constantly think about and learned through this journey is that being a woman founder is a strength. It's not a weakness. You don't need to justify being a woman founder. You don't need to justify pursuing a women's health problem with a women's health solution. I actually think all of that is a strength. And the second I stopped defending myself as a founder and defending my product and instead presented it as the opportunity it is and found like minded, passionate individuals like Jennie to join the journey, the more success we had. So I would just encourage all women founders, women entrepreneurs to remind yourself that you are doing something exceptionally valuable and your perspective is exceptionally valuable. And it's not something that you need to make excuses for or feel like you need to be on the back foot about.
[00:23:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Jennie, do you have anything to add to that as well?
[00:23:29] Jennie Lynch: Wow. Yeah, absolutely. The main takeaway that I have since starting entrepreneurship is create a community with people around you who will continue to support you. And mostly what I mean by that is Ashley and I have already established a community, both in Minnesota and nationally, that incorporates women health founders, and the amount of just brainstorming and good ideas that we get bouncing ideas off of one another is really wonderful. And it's great being able to connect with women who are in a similar position.
[00:24:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you both. Yeah, so pivoting the conversation a little bit, just for fun. Imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, could be about what you're currently doing, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
[00:24:27] Ashley Mooneyham: Well, I can give an industry specific answer right away if Jennie wants a couple more minutes to think. This might be the more boring answer, but Jennie leads an exciting life, so she can back end this with something more fun. But like I said, my expertise originally was in helping companies secure that non dilutive grant funding. Honestly, I want to spread that message more to small businesses, because I hear over and over again how much funding ends up being a barrier to small businesses, especially in the earliest stages of ideation and de risking whatever it is that they think matters and should be introduced to the market space. And that ends up stopping so many great ideas from getting a chance even to move forward in the market.
So I am constantly working on this now without a million dollars, but if I had a million dollars I'd love to just be able to spread that message more, especially to the businesses that have that mission and heart behind them. So right now there's that White House initiative, as well as the National Institutes of Health Initiative to fund women's health research. Every female entrepreneur I meet in women's health, you can't get me to stop talking about federal grant funding and pursuing grant funding to really maintain ownership over your idea, ownership over that direction, which is going to be important for any founder, but particularly those that are trying to represent disadvantaged populations or underrepresented populations. You get to maintain your ownership and you get to de risk your idea so that you can move it forward. That's just where my mind goes to right away.
[00:26:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, excellent. Very needed too, so.
[00:26:13] Jennie Lynch: I guess if I had to teach a master class, I can come in with something a little bit more fun. So a couple years back, I spent a lot of time traveling. I was doing the digital nomad thing, so maybe a master class on all the ins and outs that come with how to work. And live on the road and you know how to organize your life a little bit to make that a little bit more streamlined. There was some trial and error for a couple years and I have this wealth of knowledge that's all living in my head, but it would be really cool to bring that to life in a master class, I think.
[00:26:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes, as a digital nomad myself, I fully understand what you're talking about and getting, that learning curve can be a little steep sometimes accidentally you think, "Oh yeah, I'm prepared."
[00:27:03] Jennie Lynch: Yeah, exactly. You never know what, what's going to come up when you're traveling around.
[00:27:09] Lindsey Dinneen: I always say there's never a dull moment. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:27:17] Ashley Mooneyham: Jennie, your turn to go first.
[00:27:20] Jennie Lynch: Sure, I can go first. Yeah, well, I guess if there was something that I would love for, I would love to be known as a very loving person, a kind friend, somebody who's always positive, and gives everybody the benefit of the doubt. I guess a distinct characteristic that I would love to be remembered for is maybe what my partner calls "activator energy." I really love just immediately tackling a project, bringing something from zero to one. So if I had one characteristic, it would be that kind of activator energy characteristic.
[00:27:56] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.
[00:27:58] Ashley Mooneyham: I do too. And that's a perfect answer. Yeah, I agree with Jennie. What matters most are those interpersonal relationships and connections that you have in close community with. Those are the things that matter most to me. It's way more important to be a good wife, good mother, good friend, good daughter in the time that we have. But also obviously, I'm hoping with Momease to leave a legacy that does make an impact in women's health one way or another. And I try to keep that in perspective with our business goals always that any win that we have is a win for women's health. Anything that we achieve is validation that funding women's health is worth it and that this field is worth pursuing. And I hope that it continues to improve after our journey ends with Momease, wherever that ending point is. And I hope that's a way that we can leave our thumbprint outside of our families with something a bit greater.
[00:28:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Those are beautiful answers. Yeah, and then my final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:29:11] Ashley Mooneyham: Well, my answer is easy. I have children, so that's obviously a joy in my life. And another thing that keeps me going every day, I want my kids to know that if they have an idea that you should bet on yourself and pursue it. And I hope that I can model that for them, even in an uncertain, scary landscape like entrepreneurship. So yeah, grateful for my kids. I have a daughter and a son.
[00:29:38] Jennie Lynch: For me, it's just a nice cup of coffee, but immediate smile.
[00:29:44] Lindsey Dinneen: I can relate to that, especially in the morning first thing when you're just like trying to get recombobulated and here we go.
[00:29:52] Jennie Lynch: Absolutely.
[00:29:53] Ashley Mooneyham: Yeah, that first cup isn't even a smile. It's just necessity. And then if I get an afternoon cup, that's where then the joy comes in.
[00:30:01] Jennie Lynch: Yes.
[00:30:02] Lindsey Dinneen: That's fantastic. That's amazing. Well, thank you both so very much for spending some time with me today and sharing your stories and your advice, and I am so excited to see Momease continue to succeed, and I love what you're doing, and this is so needed, and you have this wide open space for it, and that's insane, but I'm so thankful that you guys are taking the time and the effort and the funds and everything to make it come to life because it is so needed. So, gosh, just thank you for what you're doing.
[00:30:36] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you for being a platform.
[00:30:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, and we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and also thank you for continuing to work to change lives for a better world. We're grateful, and I wish you the most amazing continued success.
[00:31:11] Ashley Mooneyham: Thank you.
[00:31:12] Jennie Lynch: Thank you.
[00:31:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am at the moment, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, continue to spread the word about these amazing innovations, and we will catch you next time.
[00:31:31] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dr. Shoreh Ershadi | Founder, ANTIAGING Institute of California | Apoptosis, Clinical Excellence, & Women in Science

Dr. Shoreh Ershadi is the founder of ANITAGING Institute of California and a renowned expert in clinical biochemistry and pharmacology with over 40 years of experience. Dr. Ershadi shares her compelling journey from Iran to the United States, highlighting her unexpected entry into medical technology and the numerous challenges she faced as a woman in science. From setting up clinical labs and pioneering AIDS testing to founding her own antiaging company, Dr. Ershadi discusses her relentless pursuit of scientific innovation and passion for improving human health. The conversation also touches on her entrepreneurial ventures, the role of art in her life, and her vision for a healthier future driven by natural apoptosis-promoting supplements.
Guest links: www.Apoptosis.us | www.facebook.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals | www.instagram.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals | www.threads.com/apoptosisnutraceuticals 
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 037 - Dr. Shoreh Ershadi
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I'm so excited to introduce you to my guest, Dr. Shoreh Ershadi. With over 40 years of expertise in clinical biochemistry and pharmacology, Dr. Ershadi stands at the forefront of scientific innovation in the field of nutraceuticals and supplements. Board certified by the American Academy of Antiaging Medicine and holding dual doctorate degrees, Dr. Ershadi brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the world. Dr. Ershadi's distinguished credentials, including National Registry in Clinical Chemistry and Toxicology and American Society of Clinical Pathology certifications, underscore her dedication to precision and quality in laboratory practices. Her visionary leadership and unwavering passion for advancing human health has made her a trusted authority in the field.
All right. Well, Shoreh, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to speak with you.
[00:01:51] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you, especially that you're going to talk about medical technology. And that is something that I have been doing or working at for, I would say over 30 years, easy. 1988, I got my license in California. So it's what, 32 years?
[00:02:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. Oh my goodness. Well, this leads perfectly into my first question and that is, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got into medtech?
[00:02:29] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Okay. That is interesting because I was born in Iran and I studied pharmacology. And before I was graduated, the Department of Health in Iran was hiring pharmacists, pharmacologists. So we all went and took the exam and we passed the exam. We were still at the final stages of doing the thesis and going through final stages of graduation. And then they called me and a few other people for an interview. Apparently I had a high mark in the test, which I did not know.
So when we went for the interview, and I went to an American school and then later to a British school in Iran, so I was speaking English. At the interview, there was a gentleman who was back in Iran from United States, and he was a PhD in clinical biochemistry, and he asked me to read something in English. And I read it, and he thought that I had it by heart or something, so he flipped the book and found a more difficult page and said, "Okay, read this," and I read that, and he said, "Okay, I'm hiring you for the reference lab."
I had absolutely no clue what he was talking about, what was reference lab. I had no intention to even work for Department of Health because I was not even graduated at that time. And then they said, "Okay, start on such and such date." And when I went there the first day, he said he spoke in English and he said, "You're overqualified." Oh my God. What? I mean, it was funny. Without even planning to get into laboratory, I got into the reference lab of Department of Health. And what he was planning to do was to bring College of American Pathologists, the proficiency testing to all the laboratories in Iran. And he wanted someone who would speak English and who could communicate.
So first day of my job, I wrote a letter to College of American Pathologists and I said, "Hi, hello, I'm Shoreh Ershadi, I want to buy a thousand proficiency kits." And of course they responded. So just like that, I got into clinical laboratory. And I became the Director of the Quality Control for Department of Health. And that was before the revolution. So, that was my exciting start into laboratory.
[00:05:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that. And
[00:05:28] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Not voluntarily, but serendipitously, yes.
[00:05:34] Lindsey Dinneen: There you go. So then at some point, you came to the U. S. and was that transition really difficult? Was it frustrating? Were you excited? Nervous?
[00:05:47] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: There was a part in between before coming to U. S. There was another test by W. H. O., World Health Organization. So I took that test and I passed that test and I got a scholarship to go to medical school in England to do a master's degree. And when I went there, I told them, "I already have a doctorate in pharmacology. I don't want master's. I want to do PhD." And after a few weeks, they said, "Okay, fine, go to PhD. You don't need to do master."
So I was in England for about four years. I did my PhD in clinical biochemistry. And I went back to Iran. That was exactly during the revolution. So while I was studying in England, the country in Iran was on fire. It was, things going crazy everywhere. But I went back and I got married. I had my son in Iran, and I was working in a clinical laboratory in one of the best hospitals in Iran, and it got very difficult for women to work. They were saying, " Now you have to wear a scarf. Now, you can't see male patients, you can only talk to female patients." It was not right.
So, 1984, I came to United States, I came to California, and with some friends in Iran who had a clinical laboratory, and they were here before me and had started a lab in Orange County, California. I started a branch of the lab in Westwood, in Los Angeles. So that was my first job or position and that was my entrepreneurial side, which now I wouldn't dare to start a life, but then I did.
[00:07:51] Lindsey Dinneen: You didn't know the difference then.
[00:07:53] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, yes, I didn't know. I mean, it was a lot easier, I would say. At that point. The lab was not even accepting Medicare or Medi Cal. It was private insurance. I was doing the billing. I was getting the information. I was drawing the patients. I was separating the samples and sending them to the reference lab that was actually running the tests. But I was doing stat CBCs and I was in a medical building and so all the doctors were so nice to send the samples down to me. It worked. So
[00:08:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Oh my.
[00:08:34] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Amazing. Yes. Now it sounds really amazing. It's surreal in a way. Yeah.
[00:08:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, so with that lab and embracing this entrepreneurial journey, and I'm so thankful it worked out so well for you, but were there any moments where you just thought, okay, I've, I, you have such an amazing background. You're so highly educated, you're brilliant. And then you're starting this entrepreneurial journey, which is kind of a different skill set in a way. How was that transition of becoming kind of your own boss and being in charge of everything?
[00:09:12] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: That was pure ignorance. I mean, now I can say then, I thought I knew what I was doing, but it was a fast learning. First that I was in a different country, that I had never been in the United States. Second, that I had a three year old son that I brought with me and my then husband never came, so I got a divorce and I became a single mom. So, and nobody else was from my family was here. So it was very difficult because I had to take him to daycare and then come work and then go pick him up. And then there was a war, the Iraq war had started in Iran and my parents were in Iran and I was going through a divorce, so it was turmoil. And I had to work and learn in a way it was good because it didn't give me time to think about anything else. It was just forward, no looking sideways, no looking backwards. It was just moving forward.
But then again, something else happened that made it even more interesting. One of the days that I was at the lab, some guy came and said, "CDL, Central Diagnostic Lab, is looking for a technical director and they've asked me to come and talk to you." I had absolutely no clue if anyone knew me or knew of me or it was the, I mean, a lot of things happened, which, I mean, I'm happy now, but then it changed my life tremendously.
And I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this in this detail. So, Lindsey, I would say you're the first person I'm telling the story of my life. But anyways, I went for an interview and I got hired right away. I had the lab, so I hired someone to do the work that I was doing in the lab. And then I started working at CDL, Central Diagnostic Labs, which was the largest privately owned lab in the United States at that time. There were 1, 200 employees. So that was a very interesting experience on its own because I was introduced to a world that I did not even know what was going on.
So, and that was during AIDS testing. Bio-Rad had just come up with Western blot testing and we did the clinical trial, which was very easy in those days. We had AIDS patients and we had a lot of AIDS samples accumulated or saved frozen and we used them to validate the Western blot by Bio-Rad and I went on National TV 1988 and I said, "CDL is the first lab in the world that is doing a confirmation for HIV AIDS testing." So then, that was major.
[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
[00:12:43] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: But then, then my family came. My father passed away here. It was, again, a lot of complications going on. And one of the other people that I knew asked me to go and partner with them in a lab. Again, my entrepreneurial part took over and I went for the partnership, and I started from scratch. I started Path Labs practically from scratch. There were two pathologists working with Los Alamitos Hospital, and I went there and I started a lab from just buying test tubes, buying, from absolutely nothing. I was there for six years, I think. six or eight years with Path Labs. That was not so successful.
After that, I went to Specialty Labs, which is now Quest. Specialty wanted to start a toxicology lab. So, Path Lab was sold. But there was no money made with the partnership and all that. So that was not a very successful six, eight years of my life. Specialty was good. I went to Specialty and I started Department of Toxicology. I don't know if you remember or you were familiar with specialty. Dr. Peters was there and he was the founder, James Peters. He did only immunology testing. They would receive samples and send out everything else to other labs and only do the immunological tests or some specialty tests.
When I started the toxicology department, we started getting samples from all over the world. We were running heavy metals and all that. We had an ICP MS and I started running ICP, and the main test that I developed there was measuring iron in the liver biopsy of patients with hemochromatosis. So we would get one spot, in tip of the needle of the liver and then do a measurement and measure the amount of toxicity with iron in hemochromatosis, which was great. I wrote a paper and we were working with Mayo Clinic and they developed the test. So that was very exciting. Then I started the automated lab because all the chemistry. And all the hematology was going out, was sent out. So that brought a lot of money into the lab, but that was not my lab. It was Dr. Peter's lab. It was wonderful. It was nice. But he was the entrepreneur there.
So in the year 2000, I started ANTIAGING Institute of California. After passing the specialist chemist license in California, I got National Registry in Certified Chemistry, Certified Toxicology, and then I took the board exam with American Academy of Antiaging Medicine. And that was again entrepreneurial and I started the company, that would be 25 years ago. I've done a lot of consultation. I've been director of lab during COVID. I went back to city health. And I was Director of City Health running 4, 000 COVID patients a night for airports, for schools, for traveling, for a lot of stuff.
And then I worked with Siemens Healthineers on regulations for IVDR. So all the kits that Siemens had, over 700 reagent kits that were sold to the laboratories, they need to get the CE mark to be able to be sold in Europe under the new IVDR regulations. And a lot of it had to go through FDA as well because FDA had to approve if there were any changes made to the kits. So I've done a lot of regulation works. I've done a lot of hands on COVID tests, covered it all.
Actually, something else that was very interesting. And this, for MedTechs, I would think this would be interesting to know that it's not just one position. And there's so much you can do, if you want to expand your horizon. For about a year, I helped set up extremely high complex laboratory for testing mother's milk, for making milk bank from mother's milk for NICU for children who were born early and the formulas did not work with them. Some of them were so tiny, less than a pound. And so mother's milk bank, it's called Prolacta Bioscience, the company. And I worked there to establish the clinical lab and to get a license for clear and stuff like that. So.
[00:18:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!
[00:18:21] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: A lot of good work going into my up and down career, I would say.
[00:18:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Well, first of all, I'm so honored that you were willing to share so much with me. That is. I really appreciate it. And I really appreciate you being willing to talk about some of the amazing moments you've had and the really high, " Yay, we did this," but also some of the moments where it was a little bit tougher and even you being honest and transparent about, the one company didn't do as well as you would have hoped, but you kept going and you are a living testament to resilience and adaptation.
[00:18:59] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: There is no other choice. I would hope that people would have many choices. I mean, you always make choices in life. Even now, this is a choice to talk to you and I appreciate the opportunity because, if I would choose or if I wouldn't know about you, that would be a totally different episode in my life. So I'm open to take chances. You can say that with my experience, living in three different continents and moving and just leaving Iran and coming to us with a three year old, not being here ever before. And then, just jumping in and, but there was no other choice except for moving forward, or we can say, except for success. Because failure was not an option. What would I do? There was nowhere to go back. Sometimes you may have an option to make a U turn and say, "Okay, I don't like this. I want to do something else. I want to stay home." There was no option, no going back. So it was only forward.
[00:20:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. So, coming here and like you said, having to move forward and I appreciated what you said, you kind of, you couldn't look to the side, you couldn't look back. You had to keep moving forward. How did you go about building a community that could support you, that you could be friends with, and colleagues with, and feel supported coming in from, not having that.
[00:20:36] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: And that was not very difficult. There were many difficult times during that, that I mean, I don't mind talking about it, being a woman, being a young woman, being from a different background there was a lot of resistance. And I see that today as well. I mean, I can't say, "Oh, here I'm in L. A. and Los Angeles is so easy." It's not. I am hoping that women would not maybe experience all the difficulties that I went through. But we're talking about 40 years ago. I came to The States actually July 22nd would be exactly 40 years. I left Iran July 1st, 1984. So this is the 40th anniversary.
Being a woman, I thought, when I went to England one of the first things, the professor was my direct supervisor when I worked with him. And I know you can see my face. This is 40 years later. I have no claims, but the professor told me, "You're a beautiful woman. Why do you want to study? Why are you here for PhD?" And I thought that was the greatest insult in my life. So I fought with that professor for four years.
[00:22:15] Lindsey Dinneen: No, I'm sorry.
[00:22:17] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: That wasn't easy, but it was so difficult to prove that I am not just a woman or a pretty girl or a young girl or a young woman, or. That was a major fight. I would say that was as difficult as fighting the revolution in Iran, because you wouldn't expect a British professor to say that to you. And I was the only girl, a PhD student, all the others were guys, and this was medical school. And to me, that was very surprising because when I went to University of Tehran, we had probably more girls than guys in the class. Girls were very prone to education in Iran, and they still are. There's still, I think, 60, 65 percent girls in universities, even here. But to hear that was very difficult. That experience repeated itself. in United States over and over till today that I can say I don't feel old. I'm antiaging, but now that I'm an old woman, I still feel that I have to prove myself that I am equal. And sometimes I would say I'm better, but, just to be honest and modest, you want to be treated equal. And that is very difficult.
[00:23:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And As much as I would wish things were improving rapidly, I'm not so sure that they are, but what have you found has been helpful in terms of, helping people understand who might come with a bias, but who, helping those people understand, "No I have this education. I am very capable." What are some strategies that you have found that have worked really well for you?
[00:24:22] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Not many. I have to be honest with you. I mean, if there are a few people, few women, a few even men who are, would be following the conversation, I want them to know that this is not easy. And maybe a part of my success is that I'm a fighter. And I didn't surrender, but I didn't smile my way up. I fought with everyone that went in that direction. And I don't want to get into details, but many of the stronger men would think that if they flirt with you, if they take you out, if they buy dinner for you, then you're going to do what they say.
And my story is, just, I have my guards up and I fought. I wouldn't recommend people to fight. Maybe they can find a better solution. I did not find many. Maybe the reason of working separate and starting my own company, maybe one of the major reasons was that I would not have to say yes to power that I did not want to say yes. I worked very hard. I worked hard, long hours. Medtechs, you have to stay there to get the results out.
One Christmas. I stayed from December 24th for I would say 72 hours in the lab, maybe two, three hours shower and sleep and go back because we had a lot of toxicology tests that were waiting and results had to go out. And the probe in the I-C-P-M-S was broken. There was no one to replace it during Christmas. It was, we had to borrow from somewhere, FedEx shipping it. Those things happen, you know that, and you have to work hard. It wasn't an easy journey to say, "Oh, I worked four hours a day." And they said, "Thank you. You're so good. Go home." It wasn't like that.
[00:26:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Right. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. And so one thing that was really interesting to me, I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and I see that art is a big part of your life in addition to the science and I saw you listed painting and sculpting and I'm wondering how-- well a couple of things-- how did you first get involved in art? And secondly, do you feel that is helpful in terms of having a sort of therapeutic thing to do that kind of maybe helps with some of those harder moments where it's a little frustrating?
[00:27:23] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Very helpful. But I was as a kid, I started painting at a very young age. And I was always coloring and painting and making things and all that. And my father, a very educated father, he had two master's degree from a University of Texas and came back to Iran. And that's why, we spoke English and we went to English school. So my father was educated and open minded, I can say. But he always said that "You should study art. And don't go to medicine, you'll get old." He passed away in 1988, and I always, when I started Antiaging, I always said "Okay, if you're looking, you will see that I'm antiaging, I didn't age, I went to medical school, I did all the studies."
But my logic, first that I love to do this, I mean, it wasn't just you know, forcing myself. I love science. And to this day I do a lot of research. I play with science. You can see the labels are all fancy. I do the paintings. I do all of that. But my logic, more than being scientific, was that this was a career and art would not be a self supporting career, even at younger age. But I always said that if I was a doctor, I could paint, but if I was an artist, I could not do the scientific part or the medical part that I was interested in.
But after the divorce, I was in a relationship for 14 years. And I was working hard, raising a son, being a single mother and all that. When that relationship ended after 14 years, the art just popped out. I started painting, sculpting. It was not under control. You can see that, things happen to me, things come out in a certain period. Maybe, I push them down, force them to stay within me, and then they just pop out in different directions. So art came out itself. But there was a period in between that there was no art. Maybe there was too much stress. Maybe there was a lot of, and right now there's no art. Right now it's more entrepreneurial, starting, scientific, all that. But the art pops out every now and then.
[00:30:07] Lindsey Dinneen: That's great. Yeah. So speaking of, what you're doing now, I was wondering if you could share a little bit about your company and maybe what you're excited about for its future as you continue along this path.
[00:30:19] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Okay. That is, this is now where all the passion is. So everything that I have forced inside for all my life is now just coming out into Apoptosis. Apoptosis is a Greek word and it means "falling of the leaves." In science apoptosis, if you Google it, you'll see it means "programmed cell death." So in our bodies in creation or creator or whichever you wanna put it, and I'm sure being a medtech and all the audience, they know there are thousands of reactions inside the body are happening for me just to sit here and breathe and talk. There are thousands and thousands of enzymes and catalysts and metals and oh, whatever is going on.
Programmed cell death or apoptosis is a main part of survival. So it's the future of antiaging because we all-- first of all that life expectancy is much longer now. Longevity is longer and younger people do not want to get old. So, at some point I would say my grandmother's generation and my mother is now 95 years old and she's, thank God, healthy and walking and all that, but even she does not want to get old. So, the image of being old and sick is combined together.
But we can age without being sick, without getting Alzheimer's, without losing our memory, without getting all these different kinds of diseases. And one major problem is cancer that was much higher with older people and now the statistic is showing that cancer is happening in younger and younger generations. So what apoptosis does is that it's a program in the body. I did not make it. I wish I did, but it's happening all the time. And apoptosis is getting rid of cancer cells, getting rid of damaged cells, getting rid of neurons that cannot connect and synapses with other neurons to take the message over. So if we encourage apoptosis, then all the damaged cells are removed just like falling leaves. They're removed from the body and they're replaced with new energized healthy new cells.
Every 10 years, our entire body is regenerated. So why do we get old? We should always stay at a 10 year age. So at 20 years old, we have recycled cells that even though we're growing, growth and youth is defined as between 20 to 25. From 25 to 30, it's sort of stable. There's a plateau. After 30, we start the aging process. So now, as 30 to 60, is still considered not so deep slip going down. It's sort of a plateau up to 60. And then after 60, 70, 80, 90, people are beginning to age. And it shows, I mean, with different diseases, with wrinkles, with memory loss, with all that.
So what I'm doing, I'm using nature's product, plant based products, and this has been proven in science that these plants support apoptosis. So, as we get older, just like all the other reactions, apoptosis does not happen at its ultimate way that it should happen. But if we encourage it, for example, we have here, this one is brain beet. This is all beet roots, and it's an organic product. It's all plant based, but it releases nitric oxide. And it works the same way that Viagra works, but it opens all the arteries, it opens the circulation to the brain, to the heart, so why not use it? Why not promote apoptosis the way nature has programmed it in our body, just help it to work better. So that is all my passion right now.
[00:35:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Excellent. Well, I love that. Thank you for sharing a little bit about it. I'm excited for our listeners to go and learn more about it and, see how they can maybe also take part in the antiaging movement.
[00:35:41] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes, they can partner with us and I would be thrilled. Actually, this is something that maybe I have learned during the long life experience, is that the more partners you have, the more friends you have, the more you share your knowledge, the better it is. Because at some point, it was like people wanted to keep everything to themselves and they didn't want to share or, but right now it's totally different. If they go to Apoptosis.us, they can go to the science section, they can read the papers. And if they would like to partner, I'll be thrilled to work with as many people as possible and take the message out. Yeah, this is a healthy message. This is something that we should all be talking about.
[00:36:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed, we should. Yes. Thank you. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a master class on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach?
[00:36:56] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, the million dollar would be great.
[00:36:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Indeed.
[00:37:00] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes. Yeah. Would we all want that. But yes, I think that right now, as I said, I would use the million dollars to talk about apoptosis all over because I see even young children, every time I see St. Jude's children, and thank you for your donation to Save the Children. I admire that. And I'm hoping that all the children in the world would have a good, healthy future. The world is crazy. You can look at it right now and see that, I can say my experience has been crazy. It doesn't get any better. It's always up and down. Things are happening all over everywhere in the world. And I would like to talk about health, talk about antiaging, talk about Apoptosis and educate more and more of the young people to learn and to avoid all the toxins that we are creating and we have created, with what we're doing with industry and go back to a plant based life, go back to nature, enjoy nature, go back to art, if possible, all the good things that we can do with our lives.
[00:38:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:38:29] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Oh, wow. That's a very difficult... a fighter? Survivor? Yep. Strong women? I would support women all the way. Now in Iran, they're saying, Woman Life Freedom. I'm sure you've heard about that. And I cannot tolerate, to see women covered all over with a window to see outside. To me, that is very disturbing. So I would like to see equal opportunity for women and I would like to maybe be remembered as a survivor.
[00:39:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. And then, final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:39:24] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Oh, my granddaughter and my grandson. Yes, I have a five year old granddaughter. Her name is Julia and she is my sunshine. She is my life. The grandson is three months old. He's still too young, but he's getting there.
[00:39:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Aw!
[00:39:48] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Getting emotional.
[00:39:51] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm so glad. It's that's beautiful. That's wonderful.
[00:39:56] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes, that is continuation of the fight. That is when you see that what you've done is worth the fight, worth the hard work.
[00:40:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Well, this has been amazing. I so appreciate you telling your story and sharing some of it that maybe you haven't done before, and that's I feel very honored.
[00:40:23] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Yes.
[00:40:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Thank you for trusting me.
[00:40:28] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Well, thank you for bringing all of this out. This has been sitting there suffocating, maybe.
[00:40:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
[00:40:37] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you.
[00:40:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And we are so honored, you mentioned this, but to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
[00:41:06] Dr. Shoreh Ershadi: Thank you so much, and thank you for having me, and thank you for making me tell the story. Thank you, Lindsey.
[00:41:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And thank you also so much to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we'll catch you next time.
[00:41:29] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Tom Salemi | Editorial Director, DeviceTalks | MedTech Storytelling, Event Collaboration, & the Power of Connection

Tom Salemi, editorial director of DeviceTalks shares his accidental yet fulfilling journey into the medtech industry. Tom reveals his passion for storytelling, building communities, and highlighting the human aspect of medical device innovation. He discusses the evolution of DeviceTalks, its focus on collaboration and education, and the importance of personal connections within the industry. 
 
Guest links: devicetalks.com
Charity supported: Feeding America
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 036 - Tom Salemi
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey and I am so excited to be speaking with my guests today. Tom Salemi. Tom is the editorial director of DeviceTalks. He tells medtech stories with wonder, humor, and great respect. He hosts podcasts, conducts video interviews and organizes events, both virtual and in-person to ensure our innovative medtech ecosystem stays strong and saves lives.
All right. Well, thank you so much for being here, Tom. I'm so excited to talk with you this morning.
Tom Salemi: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's great to be on this other side of the podcast interview experience.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind starting off by sharing just a little bit about yourself and your background and how you wandered into medtech.
Tom Salemi: Sure. I'm a Massachusetts native, lived here my whole life. Always was aware of the healthcare industry, but I can't say I had a long time love for it or anything like that. My parents were not doctors. I am not an engineer, nor ever could be, but I did go to journalism school. And I wasn't quite sure why, it just always appealed to me. I went to visit a newspaper once, the Boston Herald, and I fell in love with the newsroom. It just seemed like the most fun place to be in the world. So I wanted to work there for a living, but later on, I think I found out it was more, I really enjoy building communities and that's gonna, I think, develop later on.
I found my way into medtech quite accidentally. I was at a local paper in Massachusetts and wanted to get a job at the Boston Business Journal 'cause I was tired of covering city council meetings and planning board meetings about the height of fences and things like that. And the only beat that was open was healthcare. And at the time, this was '97, that included all the Boston hospitals, the biotechs, and the medical device companies. So it was a lot, but it was intriguing. And, I'll say my parents at the time were older and starting to see doctors more and more. So I was like, "Well, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to understand that industry a bit better."
So I took the job at the Business Journal and then that led to an invitation to edit a venture capital newsletter that focused again, broadly on healthcare. So, that was in '98, it's called Venture Capital and Healthcare. Very very descriptive name. And from there, I just really grew to love medtech. I mean, biotech, is of course bigger and fascinating in its own right, but I never quite understood the whole molecule thing, whereas devices, you could see what this thing did and what it looked like. And how the pump worked and why I moved the blood this way or that way. It was just I think an easier and a better story for me to tell. So that's how I wandered my way into healthcare and into medical devices.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Well, and now with DeviceTalks, can you tell us a little bit about DeviceTalks, and maybe a little bit about what you're excited about for it for the future? Because I know there's just so much in the works and it just keeps growing and it's so exciting to watch.
Tom Salemi: Yeah, no, it's been an interesting development. So I joined actually DeviceTalks in 2019. It existed prior to me. It's been around for 10 years or so. It was a sort of the events business related to the Mass Device news site. So, prior to that, I was writing for magazines, wrote for InVivo and Startup. And then decided in 2014, I was I was done with writing. I just wanted to do something different. And at the same time, the company that acquired our magazine decided they wanna lay off the editorial staff. So it was it was quite a good bit of timing for me 'cause I don't think I ever would've got off the branch without a little boot in the butt.
So I started doing conferences for a smaller company, medical device conferences, and podcasts. And then the opportunity to join DeviceTalks again happened in 2019 to, to run their three meetings. Of course, 2020 came around. I joined November, 2019, four months later the world shut down and we didn't have our events. So, we pivoted and launched our podcasts and our webinars and went back to events in 2022. DeviceTalks' mission has been really focused on the people who make medical devices, who design them, who manufacture them, who get them through the regulatory process. Anyone who touches a medical device from inception to handling it to a physician to have it implanted in a patient. We try to track that whole process. We do a bit of sort of the venture capital stuff, which was where my interests were lying previously. But DeviceTalks' goal is really again, to focus on the engineers and manufacturing folks, those who were really on the front lines of making medical devices.
DeviceTalks has sort of morphed over time from just an events business to our podcast business, which is not only our weekly podcast, but we're working with a lot of the major OEMs to help them tell their stories through podcasts. We're continuing to roll out new series focused on specific OEMs or specific areas. We'll have a neuro one coming out soon. We'll have a structural heart one coming out soon. And we still, the DeviceTalks Tuesdays program that we launched in May 2020, because we couldn't meet the person, we did virtual like everybody else. I thought it would be something that would go away when we went back to in person, but it's only grown. So we'll continue. We continue to do about 35 of those a year. We take a month off in August and then a few days here and there for holidays. But next year we're going to be expanding that to bring some more kind of issues and OEM oriented conversations. So people seem to have responded to the opportunities to talk about medtech all the time and to listen to medtech all the time. So, as the host of a podcast, it's a pretty great time to be producing stories like these.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about DeviceTalks and its trajectory. It's so exciting to see how it continues to grow and evolve over time. And yeah, it's been interesting to watch how so many companies have changed, obviously because of the pandemic, but then sometimes it's been a really interesting change where, what you thought was going to happen doesn't actually happen the way, but it's exciting. And, you just keep moving with it. So that's great.
Tom Salemi: I was listening to the first podcast we did in March 2020,. Chris Newmark and I were talking about, "Well, what does this mean? Like, are we not going to go to meetings? Are we going to have these conversations online? Like digitally? That's crazy. That doesn't make any sense." And we just literally described the world today, but we were both just flabbergasted, "This is nuts. This is just not going to work." So you're right. Things are evolved quickly.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And it's great. So, you're coming at the medtech industry from a really unique perspective, and you are telling stories and sharing stories about people's, incredible devices and innovations and the journey from concept to actually producing something. And I'm curious how does that storytelling process work for you? Like how do you go about finding the hidden gems within a founder's story, and then being able to take that and really run with it so that it's not just a matter of, "Hey, this device is incredible. Look at all the shiny, cool, amazing things it does. But here's the purpose and the reason behind that, too."
Tom Salemi: That's a good question. I mean, I, like you, start the podcast with the stories about the guests, 'cause I'm really intrigued by their path into medtech. 'Cause I don't think it's, we know the industry itself isn't extraordinarily sexy. It's not on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. We're not talking about, well, these stupid app names that are missing vowels and people seem to get excited about it. We're a very kind of, I don't know, low key industry, but we're the industry, the people who make these devices, are literally saving lives.
So I think the guests that we talk to, you know, come to it come to this industry for a purpose. You obviously can build a very successful career for yourself. But I really do enjoy trying to find out what that why is and how it came to be, how it came to lead to a career in medtech. And then I really focused down on, we've all had those moments where we've made life decisions and we could have gone this way or that way. And we chose that way. And it worked out, but what was that? What was the thought process at that fork in the road? And why was that decision made? 'Cause I think really, I think that's something that everyone can connect with.
I remember talking with Mike Mahoney, the CEO of Boston Scientific at DeviceTalks Boston last year, talking about his indecision as to whether he was going to take the job at Boston Scientific. He was obviously a senior medtech guy at J& J. Why leave J& J for Boston Scientific, which was struggling at the time? And he just told this great story of how he had hired a consultant to review the situation and to give him a recommendation. The consultant was like, "No way, man, stay at J& J, you're doing great." And he was going to interview at Boston with the intention, I think, of saying no. And then he just took a moment and walked off and just looked in a mirror and said, "Do you want to do this or not?" And he said, "Yeah, I want to do this." And he just went for it and look what happened.
So, I think finding those human moments in medtech is important because, more so than tech, in other industries, I think it is a very human industry because, again, people are here for a personal reason. Many people have personal stories as to why they entered medtech. Talk to people who have lost childhood friends, when they were teenagers and that drove them to medtech, obviously the state of our parents, in my case, draws you here. I think very often there's a compassionate thread. I mean, sometimes people just, maybe they go into sales 'cause they see the cars in the parking lot of, and I think there's that and that's fine too, but I think those people also come around to, "Oh wait, this is, I can have my cake and eat it too. I can actually do some good while doing well." So, I do like to focus on the human part of our industry. And I think it's one that needs to be told more because too often it's a conversation focused on FDA approvals or recalls, and we're just talking about the machinery and not the people who make it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Very well said. And I completely agree with you. I think there's, oftentimes a little bit of, because to your point, it's not sort of on the front pages every day. And I will venture to say that sometimes when it is, it's for the reasons we don't want it to be. So, so it's so important to tell these stories. And the thing is, I came in from also from an outside perspective and my background is marketing and business development, business strategy. And so when I came in, it was a whole new world as well. And one thing that I realized is from an outside perspective, sometimes there's this sort of unfair stigma about people are in it solely for the money. And honestly, It's a really hard industry to be in if that's your only goal. So I think, telling these stories about these founders and the why behind it is just so compelling. And I love being able to do that. I'm so glad that you do that all the time as well. Yeah.
Tom Salemi: Yeah, no it's just, those are things that need to be reported on and focused on more, so I'm glad we're both shining a light on it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So, okay. So I know that DeviceTalks, it has so many different facets to it. One of the really interesting things that you guys do is put on events. And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit to that process and even just there, there are a number of different industry events available, but DeviceTalks pretty special. So I was wondering if you could talk to a little bit about that element and what makes it unique. Yeah.
Tom Salemi: Yeah. No. So when I joined in 2019, I came aboard to help find a direction, a different direction for the meetings to focus it more on the engineering and the device making, which was going to be challenging for me. 'Cause my, again, I really focused more on who raised series A, and who raised series B, and who's a late stage investor, and who's an early stage investor. And for me, for a long time prior, medical device coverage was just, you report on the company's financings, your report on their FDA approval. And then, I don't know, all that stuff in between and who knows what happens there.
So, COVID in a way presented an opportunity because we were able to focus on the podcasts and really give me an opportunity to learn about the industry, to learn about the engineering and the manufacturing about it, but also to get to know the device companies themselves and the comms teams there. So, by the time we resumed things in 2022, it sort of afforded me the opportunity to really work with the comms teams at the big companies, and the engineers and the folks who had on podcast, and try to get those stories that we told on the podcast on stage and maybe a grander fashion. Maybe there's a PowerPoint vote. Maybe there's two or three people who can talk about pulse field ablation, who can talk about the orthopedic business, who can talk about surgical robotics. So DeviceTalks, although we include some of that in our conversations, partnership and financing, especially in Boston, we've got The Medtech Innovator there and they run a great innovation, sort of forum investment forum. I just love working with Paul Grand and I love The Medtech Innovator crowd.
And I still love startups, the folks who start companies are just absolutely insane in a good way. God bless them. I love it. And so, but I really wanted to give an opportunity for the Strykers, for the Boston Scientifics, for the Medtronics to come and sit down in sort of a collegial atmosphere and say, "Look, this is, this is the device we're working on. These were the challenges we had in developing it. This is how we're looking at the patient population." And just go over different challenges that that they had overcome. So it really, I think, is an opportunity for everyone to sit down and talk about the designing, the making, even the selling. We're actually getting more into the selling of medical devices to talk about the business of medical devices in a very, almost. I don't want-- collegiate sounds weird-- but just a very educational, sort of open setting.
So we'll do, we have our keynotes, we'll have our big CEO keynotes. We'll have a venture panel from time to time. And like I said, we'd love to have the startups present, especially in Boston with MedTech innovator. We do that a little less of that at DeviceTalks West, but our bread and butter can sit continues to be engineering and manufacturing. And we really want folks to come down and talk about the intricacies behind their very cool and important and lifesaving devices, so people walk away with a better understanding of how to make their life saving device. And hopefully if they've taken the time to get to know this person who's achieved something great, and maybe they connect on LinkedIn, and it leads to a company being started five or six or 10 years down the road or two or three years down the road. Who knows? So we're all about again, open conversations about medical device development and about fostering the opportunity for personal connection as well.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Well, and I love your focus on collaboration, and education and that, the knowledge is shareable and it's really important and I think it's really impressive that you've created an atmosphere where people do want to come and share and talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of their process and being able to share those stories, like you said, could very well inspire the next generation of innovators because it's important to be honest and transparent when you can be. So I think that's really incredible that you've fostered this atmosphere that, that leads to that. So.
Tom Salemi: No, thank you. No, and I'm really grateful to those companies that take advantage. Sometimes folks will come and maybe their presentation is a little scripted. But I think just having that person in the room, the Chief Technology Officer or the Director of Engineering for some valve program is important. And it just gives people, I think as much as-- if I were to create a pie chart for the importance of stuff that goes with a bar graph that happens on stage versus like the 10 minutes after someone's on stage, it's probably the bars are probably pretty close.
I'm not sure which is more important, but I think just getting everybody together and we've actually, I initially fought this, I'll admit it, but first couple of conferences, we had like five minutes in between sessions 'cause I just wanted to pack so much in. This year, our conference team was like, "Can we do 15 minutes?" And I was like, "No!" If you add it up, you've probably lost like 30 minutes of programming, but the 15 minutes was really great for just to give people some comfortable time to like, "Hey, I heard what you said about X. Here's something I'm working on, what do you think about that?"
I think that those kinds of conversations are are very important and you can lead it up. You can leave it up to serendipity that, "Oh, if I'm at the conference and the Chief Technology Officer from major medtech is going to be there, I'll bump into him in the cocktail reception," but it's not always easy to do. So we try to, we really try to foster those connections so people get the insights they need and go home with some really positive insights and feedback.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, I absolutely love what your company does for that. That's incredible.
Tom Salemi: Thank you.
Lindsey Dinneen: So along your journey, have there been any moments where it stood out to you that you had this realization that "Yes, I am in the right industry at the right time." And just something, like a story that you got to share or something that just made you go, "Oh yes, I'm in the right place here."
Tom Salemi: Interesting question. I mean, I have a lot of those moments. Some of those singular moments, I think, some are a just collective moment. Like I've said before, when I was covering the Newburyport City Council, there was literally a moment where they were arguing about the distance-- I was there supposed to be covering this meeting-- and they were talking about the height of fences. And I literally got up and just left. And I was like, "I can't spend, I don't want to dedicate another minute of my life to this." And I've never done anything like that before. I am this Joe Earnest, like I'm gonna stay to the end and make sure it goes. I had the whole journalism thing going on. But I was just like, "I just can't spend my life doing this."
I've never, ever had that moment in medtech. I've never come to work and said, "Why am I writing about this? Or why am I talking to this person? Or what, what is this even about? What's the point?" I've never even thought that. And I would have that conversation if I were covering insurance or even, when I was at my newsletter, got a company by Dow Jones. And I thought my only path up was really to like get into news wires and start covering earnings and things like that. And I was like, " I don't want to be covering earnings and being measured by like, did I beat AP or whomever or Bloomberg by 35 seconds?" No, that's not what I want to do. I want to write about cool tech and talk to cool people. So that's when I left Dow Jones and joined EnVivo and Startup, cause I really wanted to focus on medtech.
But, there are a lot of those moments where I'm really glad to be doing what I'm doing and there's singular moments too, where, I'm sitting in a plane and I look across the aisle and the woman next to me is just reading an EnVivo Magazine and she's got my article open. And I'm like, ah, I just want to tap her in the shoulder. " What do you think? What do you think about Right Medical, huh? Pretty interesting stuff, huh?" That was very cool.
I remember interviewing Kevin Lobo at the early medtech conference I did in Minnesota. It just went super well. He's a really great guy to talk to and very easy to talk to, very open and honest, and will answer any question. But just getting off the stage was like, "Wow, that was a lot of fun. I want to go up and do another one." Which is weird, 'cause I wasn't a big stage guy before, but I don't know, the opportunity to dig and find some cool stories and really see the humanity in these medical device folks is a great challenge and a great privilege for me. I'm really blessed to have the access that I have. So I'm very grateful.
Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Oh my gosh, I loved that so much. And yeah, I totally, it would be hard not to go, "Hey, what do you think?"
Tom Salemi: Exactly, right? Yeah. Then what? Then like, "Oh yeah." Then she's like, "Sure. Sure. You're Tom Salemi." And then it gets really weird. "Oh really?" I let it be, but it's one of those forks in the road moments. What would have happened if I just asked her if she liked the right medical story and maybe who knows? I don't know.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's so great.
Tom Salemi: I might've had, I might've met a future CEO and then had a great story to tell with her someday. So.
Lindsey Dinneen: It's still a possibility.
Tom Salemi: it still happen.
Lindsey Dinneen: Maybe you'll run into again.
Tom Salemi: She's hearing this, maybe. She's like, "Wait a minute, I did read an EnVivo Magazine on the plane once next to some weird guy who was..."
Lindsey Dinneen: "...weirdly watching me while I was reading it."
Tom Salemi: Exactly, while was reading a magazine.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's so funny. I love it. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun. Imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be within your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Tom Salemi: Wow. People say "that's a great question" to me all the time. And I always like, "I don't really have that many great questions. Like one or two of them are great!" But that's a good, that's a really great question. Oh, wow. I think For me, learning to speak publicly and enjoy the time on stage, I think has been a real blessing for me. So, and I know a lot of people have that ability as well. I think that would be great thing to, to share with folks.
But I think moreover, I mean, it's crazy to me that like people look to me like some sort of storytelling expert where I really just like, it's like, "You're really interesting. I'm not conjuring magic. You have a great story that you just don't know exists. I'm not some wizard who's just waving my wand and saying something in broken Latin and it all happens. It's all in you." And I wish folks could look inside and see their own stories and see the stories of others as well. And they're probably too busy designing that next great device that they don't really have that ability to look inward.
But, I think helping people identify their own stories, not necessarily to tell them in a podcast form, but just to have a better sense of, of who they are. I mean, I've talked to a few people who like you, I'll say, "Oh, I'll start the conversation learning about you." And they'll say, "Well, I'm boring. Just talk about the company." And I said, "You're not boring. I've never talked to a boring person." Believe me, like everyone has great stories and everyone has great decisions that they made and, it's just a matter of telling it, or at least knowing those stories are in there.
So, because I can't teach on anything of technical value, I guess I'll focus on that. Just helping people identify their own stories and and sharing them in the world in a way that's appropriate for them. Again, they don't have to have a YouTube channel, but they could just say, "Hey, I do important work. I'm interesting. And, I've made a difference in the world." That's pretty awesome.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Well, I love that. And I actually think the wizardry component of it comes in with allowing people to feel safe enough to tell their stories, and comfortable, because it can be harder, especially when you're maybe telling a story that is challenging for you, that talks about something where maybe things didn't go the way that you hoped they would, or you failed at something. And so, so giving people, providing that safe space, basically, to allow people to share those stories and encourage it is, I think you've got that wizardry component.
Tom Salemi: Oh, I appreciate that. And that's a great point. And I think, like with the keynotes, when you're talking with someone who's willing to trust you a bit and say, "Look, when I do keynotes," I'm like, "Look, these are the things I want to talk about." Just allow me to, if I hear something interesting, I go, "Wait a minute, can I just pull that thread a moment," and just to have someone trust you that you're not going to take it in a really weird way, that you're going to see the positive, I think, is when you really have done your job and have a great keynote. Those are the moments, especially like at a conference where people walk away and say, "That was great."
Keynotes should be really great and interesting. They can be informative as well, but if you're just focusing on, why you designed this over that and why that, why it's important to help people with this dreadful disease, all of that's important, but I think the stories that really resonate with people are the ones when they, where the people in the audience can really form a connection with the person on stage. I think that's when you really hit the home run. So, just trying to do that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think to your point, another component that you do really well and that I think is important in that sort of wizardry aspect, is the respecting and honoring of the person's choosing to tell that story. So it is, like you said, drawing out the positive and honoring the fact that they've decided to share with you. And so therefore they continue to feel safe, and respected in sharing their insights and stories and whatnot. So I think you're absolutely right that it has to have multi layer components. And, and I love your thing. You've never met a boring person. That's so great. That's so true.
Tom Salemi: It's true. I mean, just talk to people. My son is going to be an engineer and he's like already 10 times smarter than I am technically. I teach him how to jump a car battery and he's explained to me, "Oh yeah, that's why the red has to be attached to the black." And I'm like, "I don't know that. I just know red and black. Don't tell me why the battery works. I don't really need to know that. I just need to know how not to set my car on fire." That's where my technical knowledge. But there are people in the world who understand how things work. And I just-- that's witchcraft. To understand, why planes fly and why batteries work. That stuff's amazing to me.
Lindsey Dinneen: I agree. I agree. All right. And so, on a bit of a more serious note, how would you like to be remembered after you leave this world?
Tom Salemi: Oh, wow. I mean, like I said at the start, I got into journalism cause I thought it would be fun. And I was also a shy kid and I didn't want to be in a cubicle all my life, 'cause I think, I don't think I'd ever climb out of it. I wanted to really force myself into the world. But then I came to realize that what I really liked was helping people connect and I think that's becoming harder and harder for people to do, not to get too heavy about it, but I think there are a lot of lonely people in the world who aren't finding connection or the connections they are finding aren't necessarily the most productive.
So I hope, I hope I, I ease that somewhat and I'm always --just last week, actually, I got a couple of great messages and I don't get a ton of these. It's just weird timing, but someone who said that they enjoy the podcast, and they're college students, and they went into biomed because of the podcast. They joined a startup competition. It's like, "Wow. I, with my stupid stories, I had an impact on someone in a positive fashion!" And I told this person, " Great. When you invent the lifesaving technology," I said, "I will take total credit because I'm the one who stirred you into medical devices."
I'm getting a few of those nice messaging, and it's, I hope that people remember that, we have a lot more in common... I hope people will think that I've reminded people that we have a lot more in common than we do differences, and that we have a lot more positivity to rally around the negativity. And it's the only way we're going to get things done in this world is if we're working together on it. So if I could help that happen a little bit, I think I'd be happy with that as a life lived.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And thanks for sharing that story. That's incredible. That is so exciting.
Tom Salemi: I'm so grateful. I told him, I'm so grateful that person wrote, "thank you so much," 'cause that, yeah, that people don't do that very frequently. So it's awesome.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Tom Salemi: Huh. My first thought was my, my kids just seeing them find their way through life, seeing them find the things that energize them. It's great when you see that. Dogs, of course would be a good one.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
Tom Salemi: I love a good dog. I don't know, everything that's coming to mind, it sounds kind of corny. I mean, obviously when you see people take a kindness on somebody else, or be kind to someone else when they don't need to be, I think is extraordinarily uplifting. So my kids, my dogs, my dog, any dog, actually most dogs will do...
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
Tom Salemi: Yeah. But my dog in particular, but no, I think I just, those moments that, unfortunately, we're not shining enough light on where people are overly kind and helpful to each other. I think we need to see more of that at this time.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Agreed. Well, I think that's phenomenal. I, I also am a huge dog lover. So anytime, I mean, really, it's like an instant happiness.
Tom Salemi: Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: Instant. So happy. So. Yeah, they are the best. Well, I just want to say this has been an incredible conversation. It's been so great to get to know you a little bit and also get to know a little bit more about the incredible work that DeviceTalks is doing. So I just want to thank you so much for being here and being willing to share your stories. This has been great.
Tom Salemi: Oh, thank you so much. It was an honor to be asked. It doesn't happen frequently and it was-- you've got some great questions. I may steal a couple of them. So.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, thank you again. We are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Feeding America, which works to end hunger in the United States by partnering with food banks, food pantries, and local food programs to bring food to people facing hunger. And they also advocate for policies that create long term solutions to hunger. So thank you for choosing that organization to support and thank you for all the work you do to change lives for a better world.
Tom Salemi: Okay. Thank you so much.
Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you also to our listeners. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Jennifer L. Horspool | Founder, Engagement PR & Marketing | Turning Innovations into Brands, Effective PR, & The Future of AI in MedTech

Jennifer L. Horspool, a communication and public relations expert, global brand strategist, and founder of Engagement PR & Marketing, shares her journey from aspiring scientist to a leading figure in MedTech PR, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, branding, and patient persistence in the industry. She highlights how she helps startups and Fortune 100 companies turn their innovative ideas into well-known brands. Jennifer also discusses the transformative role of AI in MedTech and PR, providing valuable insights and practical advice for startups looking to make their mark.
 
Guest links: https://engagementpr.com/ | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferlhorspool/ | https://www.facebook.com/EngagementPR
Charity supported: Paw Prints in the Sand
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 035 - Jennifer L. Horspool
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, [00:01:00] Jennifer L. Hoorspool. Jennifer is a communication and public relations expert, a global brand strategist, international speaker, and founder of Engagement PR and Marketing. As a brand growth and turnaround specialist, Jennifer has been employing her skills in PR, media, marketing, and messaging for more than three decades to grow companies from vision to multimillion dollars and "turn best kept secret brands into the go to experts of their industries." Jennifer works with companies of all sizes from startups to Fortune 100. She's been working with medtech, biotech, and pharmaceutical companies for more than 15 years, and has helped to bring some pretty cool products to market.
All right. Well, thank you so much for being here, Jennifer. I'm so excited to speak with you today.
Jennifer Hoorspool: Thank you, Lindsey. I'm so honored to be here. I'm excited.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful. Well, would you mind starting off by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and maybe what led you to MedTech?
Jennifer Horspool: [00:02:00] Sure thing, actually. So I've been running Engagement PR and Marketing since 2015. I've actually been in the field of public relations marketing since the nineties, right? I'm 24 years old. I don't know how that mouth works. I don't really have to do numbers. I do words. Healthcare has been my vertical deep for all those 30 years, right? I've worked with some other people outside of health care, but for the most part, health care. I started off doing a lot in patient services and really like direct to consumer about health and wellness and stuff like that. And then got into drug approvals but from a PR perspective, right? So bringing drugs to life. And then that led me into devices, medtech. And then as AI has expanded, it's just been really fascinating in the medtech world. And I've gotten to work with medtech that does need FDA approval and medtech that does not need FDA approval.
So there's all different kinds of stuff. And one of the most fascinating things that I've gotten to do is work with a couple of different contract [00:03:00] research organizations. And so those are the companies that hold the hands of the inventors so that they can get their products through the FDA and to market in the United States. It's a fascinating journey. There's all kinds of different avenues to go down. And it's just been really spectacular of the things that I've gotten to learn in the inventors and getting inside the inventor's minds.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I can only imagine. Well, thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your background and whatnot. And so, okay. So I'm curious when you first, maybe as a kid, like would seven year old Jennifer have said, this is what I want to do with my life, or did seven year old Jennifer not know yet?
Jennifer Horspool: Well, seven year old Jennifer thought she was going to be a scientist. I was the girl that had all the, like the, I made my own soaps. I made my own potions and lotions. I did not think of myself as a witch. I thought of myself as a science, a scientist. And so I was always inventing this and inventing that and [00:04:00] constantly spilling things on my poor mom's brand new floor. And, you know, "Mom, I cleaned it up as quickly as possible," you know.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh
Jennifer Horspool: No, I've always enjoyed science and I've just found it to be fascinating. And then and then I got lost along the way. I forgot about science. Quite honestly, I was taking it, but like those were hard and communication just came so easily to me. And then it became more about storytelling. And so I love to tell stories and one thing after another, I got into branding and brand building. And this is like in the nineties is when that terminology kind of first started maturing outside of your brand mark, which is your logo.
Before the, like the early nineties, early to mid nineties, we talked everything about a brand was really just your brand mark was your logo. We thought that was a brand. And then we came down to, no, it's actually-- the brand is the emotional components of who you are and who you are as a company and all the different things. And so I got to get into all of that and I got all into the words and the storytelling and the feelings and emotions of it. And now I got to represent [00:05:00] scientists. And so it's really been a really good match because I think I'm a natural communicator.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's wonderful. And I think it's so helpful sometimes to bridge the gap because you have that background and that interest in science. And sometimes perhaps not all scientists can communicate as well as they want to maybe those of us who don't have that background and do need to understand what it is you're bringing to market so that we can purchase it.
Jennifer Horspool: Right, right, right. And it's uncomplicating the complications that they find simple, right? So it's, how do you take that scientific language and turn it into common language that everyone can get behind? And so, I've always said like really smart people can simplify everything.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. I, there's a saying that something along the lines of "simple isn't easy, but simple is worth it." And I...
Jennifer Horspool: I love it.
Lindsey Dinneen: ...think a really good thing to, to remind yourself of is, when you can simplify processes or communication or whatnot, it [00:06:00] is worth it in the long run, even though, you know, like that famous, was it Mark Twain, who said something like, "I didn't have time to write a short letter..."
Jennifer Horspool: Yeah, "...so I had to write a long one." Exactly. Exactly. Because it's the truth, you know? And that's funny because in marketing all the time, they're like, "I need 11 words to fit right here." And people don't understand that it's much harder to write 11 words about something than it is to write 700. 700 is I get to explain it all. 11, I have to be impactful and those words really matter. And so it's actually much more difficult to write 11 impactful words than it is to write 700.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it is. I love that. That's a good analogy too. So now what are you currently doing and excited about and what are you looking forward to as you continue to build the business and move forward?
Jennifer Horspool: Yeah. So because we do marketing, PR, branding, brand experience, love to work with brand new startups, love to [00:07:00] help them get their whole-- figure out that whole identity, get their websites going. Everything that's in the beginning, you would be surprised at how many emotions are tied into that first coming out brand. And it, people think it matters so much and it does matter, right? But it's like sometimes, "Get out what you know right now. Let's get something up. And then as your science matures, we can mature your brand. We can mature your website."
First thing we want to do is get something out there where we can start getting presence, getting you seen, known, trusted, and found, right? Getting found is the most important thing, and it's not the easiest, right? So, so there's all these different strategies that you do to get found first by your name, you know, by who you are, your company name, the founders' names, and also by what you do or what your promise of your technology is going to do.
And so I really enjoy working with people at all stages. I've, I've had the great fortune of [00:08:00] working with startups that are unfunded, startups that are funded, and then all the way through to Fortune 14 companies, right? So the entire gamut, I know who and how to work with. with. And we work with all of them. But our sweet spot really is in just either just launching or have already launched and are just starting getting ready to get known, really building that brand and pulling people to you, to your sites, to your social media, to the studies that you're doing, to all the different things so that we build that rise. And then you're found more easily because at the end of the day, if you're the best kept secret, you could have the best science in the world, but then no one gets to use it. So we take you from the best kept secret to the best known experts in the industry.
Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, I love that. Nice.
Jennifer Horspool: Thank you.
Lindsey Dinneen: And I think it's so true too, because I think sometimes working with engineers, for instance, who are beyond brilliant and sometimes there's this, [00:09:00] there can be a disconnect of, "Well, it's so great. Like the product is so great and it should just be known." And we're like, "Yes, you're right. It should be, but there actually has to be a process to go through." Cause unfortunately the whole, "if you build it, they will come..."
Jennifer Horspool: Yeah, that movie threw everybody for a loop when websites came about because all of a sudden everybody thought, "Oh, if I build it, they will come." And it's like, no, that's a movie. The dream, if you remember, it was the dream field.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right.
Jennifer Horspool: So if you build it, then you have to market it so that they even know to come. And there's a lot of variety, like it really, it should be. fun. And it needs to be fun first and foremost, right? Like the excitement, you know, there's an acronym that I do about media. How do you get in the media, MEDIA, right? So your message is your magnet. The "M" is your Message. Your message is your magnet and your magnet is your magic that really pulls people to you. And then the "E" is Excitement. You have to deliver it with excitement cause if you're not excited about it, [00:10:00] how is anybody else going to be? But that passion really pulls people to why this is such an exciting breakthrough. What's it going to do that's different than something that's on the market today.
Then you have to distinguish yourself. The "D" in media is that: Distinguish. How are you different than what's already on the market? Why is that important? You know, you have to be interesting. The "I" is Interesting. It's like you deliver it with excitement. But how are you differentiating from everyone else? You have to distinguish yourself. You have to describe what's so important. How is it interesting. And then you really do that for your Audience. Who is the main target audience? And it's easy when your audience niche is small, but when people see it as a broad alternative to a lot of things, they get clustered, right?
Like, it's like, "Oh my goodness gracious. No, it's all these people. It's everyone." And the sad part is when you serve everyone, then you have to still niche [00:11:00] down into little buckets because everyone is not listening the same way. And when you start talking to everyone, you start talking to no one because it's too generic. People don't know to stop and listen. The whole thing is you're trying to stop that scroll. Everything, it doesn't matter if it's your video, if it's a meme, if it's a white paper, if it's your blog, whatever it is, we're all in the same scrolls right now, right? It doesn't matter if it's social media or on email or you're trying to stop that scroll. How do you get them to open your thing? And really, so the MEDIA: the message, the excitement, you know, all of that just really comes into play.
Lindsey Dinneen: That was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. You're obviously brilliant at all of this and I really appreciate that summary. I could not stop nodding my head because I was just like " yes." So thank you. And I love your acronym. That's perfect. Oh my goodness. Easy to remember. So what are some of the challenges or roadblocks that you see, [00:12:00] maybe especially with some of these startups, because a lot of startups are listening to this podcast. And so speaking of niching down, speaking to your people, but so, so what advice would you have? What kinds of challenges and roadblocks do you see? And what kind of advice would you have for somebody who is in this situation of, "Okay, I'm ready to start being known. I don't want this to be a secret anymore." What do you see and how can they overcome some of those issues? Thanks.
Jennifer Horspool: Yeah, that's an excellent question because patience is a virtue still today and we have less and less of it. Right? We think like, "We've been working on this for a year and a half and here we are, ta da!" And everybody's gonna be like, "Oh my god, they're here!" Right? You know what I mean? But that's not really how it is. We all, we have trust issues. issues. And in today's world, because there's so much online and because we have so much accessibility and because there's always new things being invented all the time, where's the credibility, right? So, and even if you're [00:13:00] the most credible person in the world, where's the credibility in the product? Where's the credibility in your launch? Where's the credibility?
And sometimes it's much slower to ramp up than you want it to be than, you think it's going to be. So the first initial, sometimes even press releases or outreach to media introductions to media, and you might get interviews, you might get like all different kinds of things where you're seeing a lot of groundswell, but it hasn't turned into stories yet. It hasn't turned into articles on the web. And it's very frustrating because you're like, "I gave them my time. I gave them all my expertise. I was as transparent and authentic as possible. I shared all this, like, where's our story?"
But they might still be just accumulating information on you and watching and waiting. They're seeing how your science matures because if they come out with it, it's an endorsement by their publication that this is authentic, that this is a real thing. And so, especially in credible publications, which is what you're trying to get into, right? And so [00:14:00] they're waiting and watching for the right time to release your story. They might interview you three, four, five times, collecting the data, building up the story before they actually cover you, before they actually release the interview notes, before they actually do something that you can really use on your site and to build out your stuff.
So in the meantime, you do the media interviews. You build the relationship with your key media who are writing about your topics. And you really, that's what you're doing is building the relationship. You're making them feel comfortable enough with you, your science, the results, your white papers, like everything that you're putting out, all of your studies, especially if you're presenting, by all means, share that with your media without necessarily expectation. You want the expectation, right? You want the story to come out of it, of course. But they might still be just collecting information and building up your [00:15:00] file and then what, once it happens, it could be something grandiose. It could be something really great that then you can really use.
And then don't be afraid to repurpose these when you get stories. Don't be a one and done. "Oh my God, we were the Wall Street Journal. Here it is." You're done. I think it's 8%, you know of LinkedIn followers even see your posts or even if they're exposed to your post, whether or not they're on social media that day. And it goes through down and through your feed. It's still in your social media, but repurpose it all the time. Pull out quotes from it, pull out interesting tidbits, share your infographics, like share that thing. Don't be afraid like 20, 30, 40 times throughout the year, you can take one study and really dissect it and share different pieces to it. Different people are going to see it. They're going to absorb the, and the same people are going to absorb it differently each time. It's like watching your favorite movie over and over again, and you grab new tidbits every time you're like, "I never even noticed that before." It's the same kind of concept with your [00:16:00] science.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, brilliant. Thank you. That was great. I really appreciate you sharing that advice with us too. Yeah, and I think to your point, it is hard to be patient because you're so excited about whatever it is that you're building and working on. And patience is such a wonderful thing to keep in mind. Like it's okay, you know, it will come just, you know, one step at a time.
Jennifer Horspool: When you get started on your marketing, it can take like three, four months before you really are starting to see real results because it's like AB testing all the time, right? What are people responding to? What are they not responding to? It's kind of the same thing with traditional media when you're trying to get in with a media.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Well, so I'm curious, are there any moments or a series of moments that stand out to you because they clearly reminded you why you chose this field and why you're specifically doing it for healthcare, medtech and whatnot.
Jennifer Horspool: So I think I feel like we're at kind of a pivotal point in health care right now. It's been [00:17:00] very much like one specific way. We've been a pill popping society for lack of a better way of putting it. We all wanted a pill to solve all of our problems. In fact, there was some show in the nineties and it was like all about the year 2025. And we were such a pill popping society that by the year 2025, you pressed a button and this pill came out and that was your entire meal. And you took your pill and that was your meal. And you just went on, you had all the proper nutrition. Like we thought, "Oh, we're not even gonna have to bother to eat anymore."
Well, foodies hadn't really come about yet. So foodies came about and they're like, "No we want to eat. Eating is the great part. Like, why would you take that away? Nobody wants to eat a pill." So I think with medtech, where it, is we're able now, especially combining it with AI, is that we're able to create new things that, that test the body in new ways. We're able to create new things that show us like even where your body's misaligned. And the part that's so important about the way your body is aligned is that has to do with nutrient delivery. [00:18:00] It has to do with injuries.
Most injuries we think, "Oh, it's because I was playing soccer and I twisted my knee this way." But it was actually because, well, your hip and your ankle were out of joint to begin with. You went and you played soccer and your body was already misaligned. You slept wrong or you had poor posture while you were watching television. You got all cranked up the wrong way. And then you went out and you played basketball, cause you always play basketball on Saturdays, cause you're a weekend warrior. Weekend warriors are the ones that get the most injuries. And that's because we don't do the training all the way along. And then you go out and you play and then you have injuries. So it's like getting ahead of all those things. Medtech today has such an opportunity to change the entire trajectory of the way we look and analyze the body, that I think there's no more fascinating industry than medtech right now.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, I love that. And Thank you for sharing a little bit about some of the, even the technology that you get exposed to too, because that is [00:19:00] just so cool. And I am curious, you mentioned at the beginning how, and this is a hot topic because it's on everyone's mind, of how is AI impacting medtech? And I'd be curious to know how AI is impacting even the work that you do for medtech and healthcare.
Jennifer Horspool: Right. So two totally different things, right? Like when you say AI, to anybody today, they just go, "Oh, ChatGPT, right?"
Lindsey Dinneen: Right, right.
Jennifer Horspool: There's so much more than ChatGPT, right? I've been fortunate, I've actually been working with AI for 15 plus years because we didn't call it AI back then. We called it different things. We just talked about what it did. We didn't say, well, "the artificial intelligence is putting it together." Like we didn't do that. It's a term now, right? What we talked about was the application of it and taking all this data and getting the analysis out in an intelligent analysis that's going to help people. Or now [00:20:00] you can use AI processes that were developed for something else. You can plug and play it into your application and it can vascularize things that never were vascularized before. I mean, that's one of the things in certain types of medtech that people are working on galore is really in creating 3D printing organs, for example, 3D printing life saving aspects.
I'm working with one company and they're developing a, it's a 3D printed bio biopolymer wrap that actually, it's got bio absorbable materials. There's just, there's new materials, there's new stuff, there's new technologies. And AI is really the ability to speed up data analysis, the ability to combine mass amounts of data or mass amounts of processes and simplify it into something that humans can do, but nowhere near at the speed. So we're taking things that might have taken three months or three years, and we're able to get it down to three seconds or even [00:21:00] less.
We're able to take things like military applications or there's the God awful bombings that are going on, how are we getting medical care to areas where they're so remote that there's no medical care? So AI is actually able to connect things up where there is no technology. There's no wifi, there's no this, there's no that, but then you can do x rays and you can actually get your x rays and upload them and get them, get a diagnosis. get like intelligent insight back when you don't have access to the internet and to other things. And so it's really, AI is the ability to dream bigger and make those dreams actually truly happen.
And then in my field, It's a really great way to never have to start with a blank piece of paper. The blank piece of paper is the hardest thing in the world to start with AI right now, especially if you're going like ChatGPT, it's great for content. It's not so great for context yet. You still have to personalize [00:22:00] everything. Never take what AI does and just use it straight out. Everyone knows, first of all, everyone knows the way it writes. So then you just look lazy. And you look like you didn't really share your own stuff. No one cares what AI had to say. They care what you, the expert, had to say.
So, we do a lot of ghostwriting. We write a lot in other people's words. We might take it to AI to get that started or maybe get some ideas. It's fabulous for ideas for blog posts. It's fabulous for ideas for social media. It's fabulous for ideas, you know, then take those ideas. It's fabulous to get started, but not to finish. You need to take it and spend a good hour with it and really make it yours.
Lindsey Dinneen: absolutely, wonderful, thank you for sharing a little bit about that too, I, it's just always such an interesting, it will be a discussion point for years and years, probably forever, I don't know, but it is so exciting, I love the way that you described it too, of being able to not approach it out of a fear [00:23:00] or concern, but approach it out of, "Oh my goodness, I can actually make these dreams come true. And I can have a bigger, even more positive..."
Jennifer Horspool: ...impact, right? We, every, we're looking for impact and it's really, don't be afraid of it. I talked to some people and they're like, "Well, everything we do is just so personalized." Everyone wants to think that everything is so different, what we do is so unique. I know everybody's is so unique. It's so unique. We're all the same uniquely, but...
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
Jennifer Horspool: ...we're all uniquely the same. I don't know, you know, whichever way you want to put it. But it's really about amplifying who you are. You can take it and create avatars to let it think in a certain person's tone. And then you can feed it that avatar. And you're saying like, you're telling it, "I want you to be this avatar, in this way of thinking with this tone and these personas, these personality traits" that you're giving it, "I want you to create now. something spectacular" and it can give you something that could might, it might even be 70, 80 percent done, right? But just never take it [00:24:00] straight out and just plain old use it.
But what it's also really good for is in finding gaps, right? Where you're like, "Here's everything I know about this and here's everything I know about this. Why aren't they, why aren't they working together? Find the gaps in this for me." Excellent at doing that, especially in medtech, where you can really then find out like what's happening today. What are the problems that we have with the medtech that's out there today. If you want a product, but you want it to go even bigger, maybe you want to change standard of care somehow by making something, taking what we have now and amplifying it to a whole another realm where you're taking the aspects of maybe three other products and you're marrying it with standard of care today. And you're saying, "this is how it's going to go that much better." It will find all those gaps for you, right?
You can create programs. There are AI program writers that you tell them, "I need this as my end result and they can design a program that's intelligent, that continues to [00:25:00] learn." There's a, another gentleman that I've been working with and he developed, it basically helps you make decisions and it helps you weigh all the decisions. And it's not like it's so profound that you couldn't have done it on your own, but you don't do it on your own, right? You plug the things in and now you get the answers back. And that's AI.
Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, fascinating too. That is so cool. Yeah. I mean, the possibilities are endless and it's just the beginning, so it's going to be exciting to, to stay on it. Yeah. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want, could be in your industry, but doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach?
Jennifer Horspool: That is a fascinating question. I would talk about-- I, I would talk about the power of being you. You know, we are, we're born uniquely us. That is the one thing where you really do get to own the unique. You are [00:26:00] uniquely you for a reason. I grew up in the seventies and eighties. Like I said, I'm 24 years old. I'm sure you know that math. But it wasn't the time for girl power. It really was not the time for girl power. And then girl power came about and it was so great because watching the transition of girls into sports and really owning sports, right? And girls into science and STEM, like now females are owning STEM and there's femtech. Femtech is a real, true industry, not just a word, but an entire industry. And that is how are we serving women?
So we've been marketing to women for years because women are the caretakers of the family, but we haven't been taking care of those women. We've been empowering those women to take care of their families. So it's, we've been shamed, " Oh, you can't be conceited. If you love yourself, you're conceited." That's what growing up in the seventies and eighties was like, it was very much about, you're not allowed to love yourself and loving yourself in today's world, as we know, is the key to everything.
[00:27:00] And so the more uniquely and fantastically you are you, the better innovations you're going to bring to your life, to the people who know you, to the scientific world, if that's where you belong. You didn't get into science by accident. You didn't get into inventing by accident. That is part of what is uniquely you. You have a curious mind. And one of the things that we forget to do, we do it in science all the time. The hypothesis is designed to be proven incorrect. Incorrect. We think, "Oh, I'm trying to prove my science." No, you're trying to prove it incorrect. And if you can't prove it incorrect, the assumption is that it must be true until we can find something else or something better.
The same thing applies to your life. The same thing applies to yourself. And in fact, I'm going to challenge, but the same thing applies into the way that you're researching your politics. The same thing applies to the research and you're applying to your beliefs about everything in life. And if you can start to say that, "This is my [00:28:00] current hypothesis. This is what I believe based on all these things. And I haven't been able to prove myself wrong. Therefore, I believe these to be true." And if you start researching everything like that, you're going to find so many more discoveries in life and you're going to find so much more of your sweet spot and where, what makes you really happy and find your people who are going to go on this journey with you. And so I think that's what I would like to do. And thank you for the million dollars.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah! Well, that's a brilliant sounding masterclass, and I totally want to sign up, so let me know when you offer it, because I'll be there.
Jennifer Horspool: You got it.
Lindsey Dinneen: And then, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
Jennifer Horspool: Gosh, that's another nice question. I think as an empowering person who helps people to see the value in being truly and authentically themselves. I think the more we really embrace who we [00:29:00] are and all of our flaws and all of our own cuckoo, cause everybody gets some. We love to point the finger, right? And one of the, one of the greatest things I learned, and I don't even remember which coach I learned it from, but you know, when you're pointing the finger at everyone else, you've got three more pointing back at you. And so the most empowering thing about that is it puts you in charge. And that means it puts you in charge of being able to fix anything. And so, yeah, that.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. Excellent. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Jennifer Horspool: My dog, Bruno.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yay.
Jennifer Horspool: My dog, Bruno. He's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. He was homeless. He was sleeping under my friend's truck for about three weeks. She posted, "Hey, I have to find this guy his forever home." And and we met and it's just been a fabulous engagement ever since. He's the greatest thing ever.
Lindsey Dinneen: So sweet. I love that. Dogs are the best. [00:30:00] They're perfect companions.
Jennifer Horspool: Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well.
Jennifer Horspool: He's spoiled now. He went from outside to a couch and a bed and all these other beds and he's a happy guy.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love it. I love it. That deserves some love and attention and, yeah, pampering.
Jennifer Horspool: Right.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's phenomenal. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for being here today. Seriously, it was value after value. It was nonstop amazing advice, amazing insight. We are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Paw Prints in the Sand. Paw Prints in the Sand Animal Rescue is an all animal foster based animal welfare organization with a mission to give at risk animals a second chance at life by providing medical care behavior training and loving forever homes. Thank you for choosing that organization to support! Thank you for joining us and thank you for everything that you do to change lives for a better world.
Jennifer Horspool: Thank you. [00:31:00] And thank you for doing this. This was fantastic. I really appreciate the opportunity to come and speak with you and talk medtech to all the scientists out there. It's one of my favorites. It's always fascinating. And thank you for doing the podcast. It's fantastic.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, excellent. And for those startups and founders that might need some assistance, where could they find you?
Jennifer Horspool: Email me at jennifer at engagementpr. com or or just go to engagementpr. com, fill out the form or you can go to LinkedIn, Jennifer L. Hoorspool, everywhere I am, get my L in the middle. It's I say, whether it's my middle initial or my last name, please put the L, it's really important.
Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Excellent. Sounds good. Well, again, thank you for being here. And thank you also to our listeners. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
Jennifer Horspool: You're the best.
 
Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by [00:32:00] Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Dasha Tyshlek | Founder, StratCraft | Entrepreneurship in MedTech, Technology Communication, & Innovative Problem Solving

Dasha Tyshlek, founder of StratCraft and strategic advisor to life science and healthcare tech companies, shares her inspiring journey from a dance teacher to a leading entrepreneur in MedTech. She discusses her passion for technology and problem-solving, and how she helps companies innovate and commercialize groundbreaking products. Dasha also highlights her podcast, "Biomedical Frontiers," which showcases transformative technologies and offers hope for the future of healthcare. Tune in for a compelling conversation on entrepreneurship, innovation, and making a difference in the world. 
 
Guest links: http://stratcraftpartners.com | https://rss.com/podcasts/biomedicalfrontiers/ | https://www.engineering.virginia.edu/centers-institutes/coulter-center-translational-research/podcast 
Charity supported: Polaris Project
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at theleadingdifference@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditing: Marketing WiseProducer: Velentium
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 034 - Dasha Tyshlek
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to be speaking with my guest today, Dasha Tyshlek. [00:01:00] Growing up, Dasha knew she wanted to become an entrepreneur, leading people to change the world through innovative products and services. Her love for technology and problem solving led her to study engineering science, focusing on biomedical engineering and product development at the University of Virginia.
Today, Dasha is the founder, president, and chief strategic advisor of StratCraft, and is a strategic partner for growing life science and healthcare technology companies. Dasha has developed a strategy for advanced manufacturing spinouts such as Core Composites and MicroAnt GPS. She has led company wide strategy development and unique growth initiatives across multiple high tech industries, including biomedical device, pharmaceutical, translational research, automotive, financial, satellite, and defense.
Dasha is the director and host of "Biomedical Frontiers: Stories with Innovators in Healthcare," a life sciences and biotechnology commercialization podcast hosted by the Wallace H. Coulter Translational Research Foundation at University of Virginia, and she is a lecturer [00:02:00] at University of Virginia's Biomedical Engineering Department. Due to her deep technical understanding and ability to forge complex, multi company partnerships and agreements, she is a sought after advisor to innovative companies working to commercialize their new technologies.
All right, Dasha. Thank you so much for being here.
Dasha Tyshlek: Lindsey, it's such a pleasure.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I was wondering if you would be willing to start off by just telling us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in the medical device field and what led you to what you're doing today.
Dasha Tyshlek: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that's been a defining trajectory in my life is, is entrepreneurial pursuit. And I actually started out, I think you and I connected on this earlier, as a dance teacher early on in my life and decided even in high school since I was learning dance to, to try coming up with my own dance aerobics programs and try to pitch that to local Golds [00:03:00] Gyms.
And so that, that's been something I've, I've endorsed and participated in and tested out various forms of entrepreneurship over my life. But I'm also an engineer and I love interesting new technologies and the scientific approach to problem solving, kind of methodical, process driven, deeply curious ways of creating solutions.
And so, when I started my engineering degree, I met some people who were entrepreneurial engineers. And that really excited me that you could be a technologist who is working on solving a problem and you're not doing it just to then maybe write a paper and hope somebody notices, but then you do the steps necessary, bring the team together, find the customer, and, and then do it, do that transition, that bridging.
And so that really put me on a path even when I was studying to start exploring that. And I got to [00:04:00] participate with an organization called Venture Well, which is really famous for supporting STEM entrepreneurship even at undergraduate level. And at my university, I worked to create an organization that would help sprout kind of entrepreneurial innovation roots into the student community. So we created a Maker Space. We hosted a Medical Hackathon took people to startup trips to visit companies that were doing new technology developments. And, and also did some expos and speakers and things like that to expose students.
And that had some really great success. A lot of people got very involved. A lot of the people that went through that with me are now entrepreneurs themselves-- not all medical device entrepreneurs, although most of them were biomedical engineers-- but all of them, very entrepreneurial, and working on some really interesting technologies now, so I think that's that's kind of the defining piece of where my career began.
And then today I'm [00:05:00] consulting and helping companies, particularly companies with large portfolios of new technologies, who are trying to come up with ways to commercialize products, come up with that strategy for commercialization, taking one product, one technology at a time.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow, that is an amazing backstory. Thank you for sharing all of that with me. And it is so cool to see how, first of all the synergy, the fact that you did have a dance background as well. And you were so entrepreneurial, even back then in creating this program. So I do have to ask, did that program ever get sold to a gym or to anyone. Have you developed it? Did you fully do that?
Dasha Tyshlek: Yeah, I actually had two Golds Gyms that I taught on a regular basis two different types of programs. And then since I was already a teacher with Golds Gym, they wanted to introduce some other dance programs from kind of well known brands. So they picked me as their [00:06:00] flagship dance instructor. So I actually ended up picking up some new classes and certifications through that.
I also had a private class, just my dentist and her friends wanted to do dance, but they didn't want to enroll in a gym. So I was like, "Here, I'll come over, you know, everybody pitch in, here's the price and I'll just bring the gear and everybody dances at someone's living room." So we even had and they were all really busy women. So. So I think it worked well for them to just, you know, be in the neighborhood and use a living room rather than have to kind of travel.
So you know, and, and we did, did some, there was two Golds Gyms, but there was also I was a substitute teacher and actually partnered with another dance trainer who was testing out ballroom dancing for people with disabilities. And so I was his like dance partner demo. So I just got to explore so many different opportunities through that and kind of see how you do business development and relationship management and new product rollouts and have to get, you know, prove that my class will bring in new [00:07:00] customers. So it was very fun.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that is incredible. I absolutely love that. Oh my goodness. So, so you have always had this entrepreneurial bent, but then of course, like you said you've also-- you're so curious. You like exploring you like learning new things and you're clearly not afraid to go out and pitch those ideas to whoever will listen. So I'm curious, how did you come to the pathway of "I want to be an engineer. I want to go to school for this and develop that skill set as well." Because it's not that they're not compatible. They obviously are. But a lot of times people don't necessarily put the two together. So I'm curious how that worked for you.
Dasha Tyshlek: Yeah, when, when I was-- so, deciding to be an engineer was a little bit tough. I, I really like chemistry and I thought maybe to go into the chemistry side of things. But a lot of the people in my family are engineers. My grandmother is an engineer. Both my parents have kind of a practical math backgrounds. So, there was a lot of engineering in the [00:08:00] background of my family. And it seemed to me that the engineering focused a little bit more on kind of what's here and now, what you can build now. Science may be focused more on fundamental discovery. And so that that seemed to be kind of the difference for me is is I thought, "I'm probably like a little bit more like practical here and now rather than thinking in these like 20 year timelines."
And so I think it was just a better personality fit. And then once I got into engineering school, that turned out to be really a great fit because I loved learning about the technology. I loved working with other engineers who were very building, creating, designing oriented. And the way that you look at problems and investigate in engineering is very similar to scientific approach, but also tends to be then, you have to then think through, "Okay, great, we found out how this spring works or something like that, but how do you use this spring to do something now in the world?" And so I, I love that [00:09:00] translation from kind of, "We have a technology, we have an approach to, it has to work for people in the world in reality."
Lindsey Dinneen: It's so interesting because I love talking to people who are multi passionate and have a lot of different avenues that they have pursued over the years because I do think, overall, the more generalist you can be-- not that you shouldn't really hone in on some specifics-- but the more that you can have a lot of general experience and knowledge and skill sets, it seems to all end up working really well together in the end. And it helps you be a little more creative maybe when you're solving problems or approaching a new idea or a difficult conundrum and you're going, "Okay, well, you know what's interesting is, I have this background in science and engineering, and I have this background in dance and entrepreneurship and then blending it all together." I just love the stories of how it comes together.
Dasha Tyshlek: One of the things I learned when I was [00:10:00] in engineering school is, for a lot of the projects-- so I took some project types of courses, and the first one I did that was like a year long course-- what I learned is, first semester, there was somebody to train me how to do the thing, but then everybody left the class, and I was the only one left. And so, the second semester on the project, I was basically spearheading, like, this kind of modeling project, and I had only been doing it for a few months. And I noticed right in that project that I was able to keep a team really organized, really clearly articulate goals, and at the end of the project, aside from the technical work that I was doing on it, I was actually the person synthesizing the results and communicating.
And it led me to think, "Is there something there that's a real strength for me? And should I be doubling down on that?" And that, that's an area I've pursued a lot in my career is technology communication: clearly articulating what we're trying to achieve at the onset, developing requirements, [00:11:00] understanding the use case, et cetera.
And then on the back side of it, once we've developed something, there's an entire kind of art and science to it, to talking about technology because there's a lot of detail. A lot of the people who work in the detail of the technology want to share that science and process. But a lot of the people who then make decisions want to hear other information about the technology that might not relate to how it works or how it was built.
And so by, by actually having some of those experiences in engineering school, I was able to see that this technology communication and crafting of project goals was something that was really needed for engineering teams, and it really benefited when there was an engineer who was doing that, but you had to be in a different mindset and develop a different set of skills in addition to the design work.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Now, when you, and thank you for sharing that. I love that, that bringing it all together and again, how things work [00:12:00] together to help you. I, and I'm curious. So you are, you were so well prepared, from an outside perspective at least, to go out on your own and become this high level, amazing consultant for these companies. Did you also feel ready, or was it still this sort of leap of faith when you said, "Okay, I'm going to go in, full time for myself."
Dasha Tyshlek: No, I was, I was very ready. I think, like any entrepreneur, I'm going through a process of discovery by learning exactly what it is my customer really needs help with, what industries and specific technologies I'm able to bring my skills to the best. And also what types of companies are looking for help I provide. So I can't say that I knew all of that information when I started out, but I had a good experience in, in the role I left.
When, when I started my business, having had walked into an engineering company that had great innovative products, but was sort of [00:13:00] underperforming in the market relative to their potential and the quality of the technology they provided and going through the process systematically of creating a company strategy with them helping them understand what pieces were missing from their business development side, and working through the marketing and the business side of things to help them better articulate their technologies. But also taking a look at the portfolio of technologies and recognizing that some of the technologies there didn't quite fit their main business model, but were really valuable, helping them figure out a path to get those out to market separate of their company, but in a way that still contributed to the overall value of the business.
And after I did that, I had several years of success and meaningful impact to look back on. And I said, "I've done it, I've proven it in one place." But in my experience doing this, I just kept meeting more and more companies [00:14:00] that struggled with a similar kind of problem. They had all the innovation. They had an amazing, talented engineering team, but they either lacked focus on which products had the most potential, or they would develop a lot of stuff that they didn't know how to move forward into the market. And so I could see the problem all around me. I was solving it. And so, after I've done enough at one company. I said, "Okay, I see the need and I know that I have the skills to solve it. Now I just need to kind of open that up and create a firm around this concept that helps other companies succeed in the same way."
Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing. And so since starting your own consultancy, what has been maybe one of the most impactful, or things that really stand out to you as one of the most exciting things that you've gotten a chance to work [00:15:00] on? What kind of goes, "Oh, this is why I'm doing it this way in this industry."
Dasha Tyshlek: Yeah. So, just generally, I get to meet so many interesting innovators who are changing, particularly healthcare. There are very interesting transformative technologies coming to the market that utilize virtual reality, that utilize AI technologies, to do things we weren't previously able to do in medicine to make me visualize your body in a way that no amount of human brain power could have done because of the way these models can work with data.
But the project or the specific thing that I think I am most excited about in terms of its general impact is, it's called Biomedical Frontiers: Stories with Innovators in Healthcare. And it's a podcast i'm producing on behalf of University of Virginia's Coulter Center for [00:16:00] Translational Research. It's a center that focuses specifically on biomedical research that has potential for commercialization, or you could say translation, into the clinic, and they fund that research. They help with the business development efforts to bring that research into the world.
And the podcast supports that mission by both highlighting the technologies that are a part of that portfolio, as well as that are connected to that portfolio, but also by educating people not only on the process of invention and the process of innovation in the medical and life sciences industry, but I think, very importantly, about what is coming: the hope and the good news about some of the incredible things that are coming to the market and to the world to help solve some of our intractable problems. So, I think in terms of human impact, that's probably the, something that I'm working on with, with a tremendous [00:17:00] vision that is available to all to participate in, to listen or, to be interviewed on.
Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent, excellent. And can you just share a little bit too about your experience becoming a podcast host because you have kind of an interesting, unique story with that. And then how can people listen to this podcast? Where is it available?
Dasha Tyshlek: Yes, of course. So public speaking and presenting technology, something that I've been interested in for a long time. And even before I started my business, in the Director of Marketing kind of roles that I've done, I've realized that video and audio communication, kind of deep diving in technology, helping create content that educates people because in a lot of engineering, even deep engineering technology areas-- you're working with other engineers who are deep in some technology area that you don't necessarily understand. There's a lot of miscommunication that happens because of that and podcasts are just such a [00:18:00] powerful way to bring more education and deep conversations about various topics, including very niche topics into the world.
So I've kind of experimented with interviewing video interviews for some time now. But when I started my business, I was working alongside another business, Sales Chasers, and the founder of that business, Michelle Page, she and I were just kind of throwing around ideas. How do you grow your business? How do you find customers? What things we were interested in? We started kind of collaborating because you know, when you're starting a business, it's just you and headphones and your computer and it you know, you kind of miss-- especially if you're in a business development communicator role-- you're like, "Ah, I need people." I'm, I, I need some, some sort of co working to go on because it's, it's too lonely. So she and I were each other's co workers in that way, kind of similar stages in our, in our different consulting firms.
So she and I decided to do a project called Go Go Grow, focusing [00:19:00] on business to business scaling with each of us coming up with some lesson plans on kind of key frameworks, tools, or ideas that are really important to business to business type of business growth. And so she and I developed that Go Go Grow together and put out a season focusing on kind of the fundamentals that we think are the most important, with some interviews of experts as well as some content that she and I kind of lesson planned together. And she's continuing on with that into other kinds of topics, but I was already working on this podcast, and I was teaching at University of Virginia, a class in the biomedical engineering department focused on engineers' professional development skills.
And so when I was talking to my co lecturer who is the professor at the University and the head of the Culture Translational Research Center, he had this idea of "We should do a podcast." And I said, "Let [00:20:00] me help you. Can I please do this?" So I created a vision for what we could do, tying his foundations' mission and the goals that we were both pursuing in the class in terms of professional development for biomedical engineers. And then presented it to the engineering department, to the biomedical engineering department, and that's how we got started.
Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that. And yes, please go check out her podcast. It's going to be just really informative. You'll learn a lot and you'll also get a lot of inspiration, like she said, about the fact that there's so many new amazing technologies emerging, there's a lot of reason for hope and optimism, and that's a good reminder, especially nowadays. So absolutely. Well, I'm curious, are there any moments or any one moment that stands out to you as just this [00:21:00] realization that you chose the right industry, you chose medtech for a reason, that it just kind of clicked into place, "Yes, this is why I'm here."
Dasha Tyshlek: I think there's been a couple small moments, but each meaningful. I think when I got my first client that was really outside of my existing network. It was somebody I met through the work I was doing of developing my business, and not somebody who I'd previously known or worked with or anything like that. I think that was a real key moment. That's like a line that you cross. You're like, "Okay, this is not about my network or the people who sort of know me. My value and the skills are clear. I can clearly articulate them to somebody else, and somebody else can put the trust in me to help them deliver something." So I think that was one is that first client that's sort of outside of of anybody you knew at the moment you started your business. [00:22:00]
I think the second one was really landing my first kind of big client, a company that really does a lot of technologies and they're not necessarily like a startup. They're mature. They have a lot of technology. They have a lot of process. That was, that was something that was like, "Okay, now I know that I'm starting to get into the kinds of companies that I'm envisioning helping and they are seeing the value that I can provide them back. So we're in agreement and it's starting to make sense."
I think the third moment was when, so I have an analyst on my team. I also have some different suppliers and people, other consultants that I work with, so kind of distributed network plus starting to build my internal team. And the first time a client approached me to actually hire somebody, my junior consultant, from my team on a project based on something that this person did for a project that I was primarily working on. And so really starting to [00:23:00] see that some of the processes and systems and ideas I'm putting in place, that it's no longer just because of me, but now it's starting to say, it's because of the company and, and their skills that other people on my team have that, you know, knowing that I manage them and knowing their skills, they, they want to hire them and me because of them. Now I know that I'm moving beyond sort of sole openership and into-- there's a company here and we're developing a shared capability. So that sort of reinforces the vision and opens up a lot of possibilities.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That is incredible. First of all, you know, congratulations because it's hard enough when you venture out on your own, but then to go ahead and have so much success and I'm sure-- you know, you have that daily grind so it's not always all sunshine and rainbows-- but to be able to grow your team and to have that moment of, "Oh my goodness, this is a company. It's not just me now, it's a company and there's other team members and we're all providing such [00:24:00] value to our clients." That is amazing. Congratulations. That is just the first step. So I'm really excited for you.
Dasha Tyshlek: Thank you. Yes, me too.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun. Imagine you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything that you want. It can be in your industry. It doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Dasha Tyshlek: Oh, that's a tough one. I actually have a competing hobby that I would probably choose from, and that is how to set up a wonderful backyard garden that produces food and flowers for the season. I think we I think we need more backyard gardens and more gardeners. But I think I would have to spend that entire million dollars on getting people to attend.
So maybe not the best choice of a million dollars, but professionally speaking, I think I would love to teach about setting up frameworks [00:25:00] for thinking about-- any kind of problem really-- but business development related problems. I think there's, there's a lot of really great frameworks out there teaching people how to use them in order to anchor your thinking and your decision making in kind of a shared understanding of priorities that requires a framework. So we could start with the frameworks that exist, but teaching people how to think outside the box and create their own framework for the situation, how to be basically their own strategy consultant in PowerPoint or on paper and help them think through problems that are complex and chaotic by creating frameworks would be, I think, really valuable to many people. I don't think it's taught very often. And certainly it's it's such a huge leg up on any kind of problem solving that you have to do to be able to kind of anchor yourself in a structure before you go and start making [00:26:00] decisions.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that. I love that idea too, because especially something that you said really struck a chord with me about solving the idea of chaotic and overwhelming problems and creating a framework for that. There's so much of life is, I mean, life is a learning curve, right? So there's so many times where it might be very helpful to approach even a personal problem or a personal challenge that comes up with the idea of a framework where you can say, "Okay. Yes, this feels overwhelming and anxiety inducing, and whatever other big feelings you have about it that make it feel so overwhelming you can't even get started." But what if you think about it in terms of a framework and how could that help you take it out of all of the emotion, maybe, and help you transform it into, okay, this can be resolved is some creative problem solving strategy. I think that'd be amazing.
Dasha Tyshlek: Yeah, and sometimes [00:27:00] when you put things in a framework, you discover that either pieces of information that you need to actually make a decision or a path forward are just missing. You put it in a framework, you're like, "Oh, of course, it makes sense, I'm missing this whole thing of information." Or, alternatively, so it can actually stimulate that aspect of creative thinking, but also it can prompt more idea generation. And, and I do find sometimes-- it's like the problem diagnosis-- sometimes if I come into a scenario where there's a lot of confusion about, "What do we do? How do we move forward? What product should we choose? What business model should we choose?"
The first thing to do is to create a framework for decision making because, you go and you do the research and you get the information, you still don't know which one to do because the information by itself, you know-- unless the information's like there's zero opportunity here, but there's never information like that. The information's always that there's some pros over here, and some [00:28:00] pros over here, and some cons, and some cons. So without the framework you just drown in the amount of knowledge. Facts without a framework don't lead to a decision, they just lead to a lot of facts.
So learning how to step back, when do you actually go back to a framework, and how do you create a framework for this situation, because sometimes it feels like you don't have a framework for this situation, the situation's unique. But you can then come up with your own framework, merging ideas from other frameworks, or utilizing your own creative skills to kind of draw up a structure within which you can make decisions. So. I think that would be, that would be a very fun master class.
Lindsey Dinneen: It would be fun and super valuable So I'll sign up for that when you give that Well, how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
Dasha Tyshlek: I always focus on three areas of growth for myself. When people ask me what I want to be, I think "kinder, wiser, and more courageous" is what I want to be over time. And [00:29:00] so I would hope that, I don't know that those things have a definite end, but if I can be remembered as having worked towards that in a way that people felt in their lives, then that will be good.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's a beautiful answer and finally, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Dasha Tyshlek: Flowers. I love, especially on the side of the road, when you're driving somewhere, and sometimes you see that nowadays on highways, there's been some wildflower planting. That's just so good. It's good for the environment, it's beautiful on the eyes, it's good for the bees. So, so always happy to see more flowers being planted for a more beautiful world.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. Great answer. Well, thank you so very much for joining me today, Dasha. This has been such a pleasure, and I'm just so impressed with you and [00:30:00] everything that you're bringing to the world to help these amazing companies become even more effective, and this creative problem solving that you bring to it with your frameworks and whatnot. So, I just want to say, you know, a huge kudos to you for everything that you're doing: the podcast, I hope that all of my listeners go and check hers out as well. And yeah, just thanks for being here.
Dasha Tyshlek: Thank you for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Polaris Project, which is a non governmental organization that works to combat and prevent sex and labor trafficking in North America. So thank you for choosing that organization to support. And we wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Dasha Tyshlek: Thank you very much, and thank you for that donation on my behalf.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yeah. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning [00:31:00] in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, we would love if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit [00:32:00] velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.