Lindsey Jardine | FARAPULSE, Inc. | Clinical Trials, Lifelong Learning, & Academia to Industry

Lindsey Jardine is a Senior Clinical Research Associate at FARAPULSE, Inc. In this episode, she discusses her love of designing and organizing clinical trials, her zest for life and continual learning, and the very human moment in her career when she realized she had to make a major change from academia to industry. 

Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-jardine-5a0985103/

Charity supported: Opportunity International 

Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 

PRODUCTION CREDITS
Host: Lindsey Dinneen
Editor: Tim Oliphant
Producer: Velentium

 

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Episode 012 - Lindsey Jardine

Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.

Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.

Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.

Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.

Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.

Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.

Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Lindsey Jardine. Lindsey is a clinical trial manager renowned for her exceptional leadership and groundbreaking achievements in the healthcare industry. With a passion for advancing medical technologies, Lindsey has successfully managed two breakthrough innovations: one at Farapulse Inc. which was acquired by Boston Scientific in 2022, and another at Shockwave Medical that went public in 2021. Her entrepreneurial spirit has also led her to contribute to the success of Cala Health, now commercially available. Lindsey has earned a reputation for excellence in leadership throughout her career in clinical research. Lindsey, thank you so very much for being here. I am so excited to have you as my guest and welcome.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, super excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. I would love if you don't mind starting out by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got to where you are.

Lindsey Jardine: Oh yeah. I work in medical device. I work in clinical research. So the story of me, it's a long and twisty one, but I'm currently the Clinical Trial Manager at Boston Scientific in the electrophysiology division. So in electrophysiology, you kinda split in between cardio and neuro. So I've worked in both cardio and neuro. But yeah, just closed out my study for a atherectomyectomy device.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great. I'd love to hear how you either intentionally explored the medical device industry or whether you meandered in, either way I just love hearing the background of what got you to where you are.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. So my background was originally in biochemistry. So I went to school to get a degree in biochemistry, and in biochem there's only basically two ways that you can go in any kind of industry. So you can go into academia and do a PhD, or you can go into medicine. So in a PhD you'd usually go into genetics, which is a fascinating topic. Genetics is super fun. So I did work in a genetics lab after I graduated college, but with the intention of going into medicine, so while I was working in the lab doing a lot of like really interesting genetics work at UCSD, I was also studying for my MCAT, which did well, got into med school. While I was filling out the financial paperwork, I looked around and I was like, "everyone in medicine is miserable." And then I had this moment where I was just like, "you know what? I don't know if this is what I want."

Because in medicine you have this grind and it's like the glory is in the grind. And you sacrifice, and then eventually maybe you'll save some lives and your time on this earth will be worth it. But that seemed like a really bad idea because I love being outside. I love my family. I love my friends. I wanted to love life in a very profound way, so I decided that sacrificing everything for maybe some kind of hope that I'm going to further the human race was probably not best served in a hospital.

So I got very lost for a long time. Continued working in the lab doing genetics. I was like, "okay, maybe I can help figure out some cures. Maybe I can figure out some other way to help humanity at not costing me my life." So started working in research, decided that I was not a lab person, not because I don't love the problem solving of the lab, it's just more of a very isolated not as personal. So, I was at lunch one day and somebody who works in clinical research at UCSD, she's "oh, why don't you come into our office and our clinic and figure out what clinical research is all about?"

I was like, "Oh. That's a thing. Clinical research, I don't even know what that means." That's not really a degree that you can have in undergrad. It's not really something that you really hear about. At least when I was in college or immediately after post college, that's not really something that was, I'd never even heard of before. So, I started working at the Chelie Eye Institute, which was also like, not to get into too many too much detail, but a lot of genetic abnormalities present in the eye. So there was like a really strong genetic component. But also I got to work with patients in clinic, which was really fun. So on the hospital side, you get to implement a lot of other people's research and you get to interact with people and you get to see the benefits of research on a daily basis.

So I fell in love with clinical research. Then eventually I was recruited to work on a project at Stanford. So then I moved from San Diego up to the Bay area, started working on the baseline project at Stanford, which was a collaboration with Google and Duke University. So, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of logistics that project was logistically super complicated, which was fun. I love that. That one was trying to figure out how all the puzzle pieces fit together and then also getting a really good deep dive into like data science. So that was my first like foray into like data science which was really fun. And then also I got to see what industry is like.

So from up until that point, my entire career was in academia. And I did like academia, but it was definitely still that grind that no matter what you do, it's never really gonna matter. You might serve somebody at some point in some time and then your life's gonna be worth it. It's like this noble sacrifice basically. But so then I got to see what industry is like and how innovative it can be, and like that really tickled my creative process and that was something that I really fell in love with was being able to move really fast, help a whole lot of people, and be creative in the process. And you get to put together all these like logistics puzzle pieces and understanding the science and really deep diving into something that gets noticed and that helps people in the immediate.

So that's that juxtaposition with academia and industry is-- academia you grind forever and then maybe someday you'll get a card saying, "You saved my life 10 years ago and my grandkids are now amazing people and it never would've been possible without you." But in industry you get that immediate kind of reward, like you see it come to market and you see your project. All that sacrifice, all that immediate hard work that you put into something, you see it come to market. And it's really fun and it's really great and you get to see it from not that 10,000 foot view where we're all contributing in the greater scheme of things. It's-- you get to see it, like you run a study of 20 people and you see the immediate effect of those 20 people. So that's why I chose MedTech specifically.

But yeah, so, after Stanford, I moved into the startup space. I started working at Cala Health which was neuro. So, that was my first transition into the electrophysiology, neuro cardio kind of space. For anybody listening who doesn't understand what electrophysiology is, it's basically understanding the way electricity governs your body, which is a really fascinating topic to me 'cause I'm a physics nerd. I love physics. So, being able to take all of my physics information, all my physics, like chemistry background, and then getting to split that time between the brain and the nervous system and, and the heart was really interesting. So that's when I fell in love with the heart and the brain.

But yeah, so Cala Health is doing really great. They're commercialized. I was part of the team that put together some of their early feasibility trials and also their pivotal trial, which was a lot of fun to work with them. And then almost immediately after that they got commercialization and being able to understand and talk through or hear the leadership team strategize for something like that was really interesting. And that was a whole new thing that I had never even seen before. Like, how do you bring a product to market and what capacity, who are we gonna reach? Who is this best suited for? So listening to all that strategy was really fun.

And then after that I worked for a company called Shockwave Medical, which is an atherectomyectomy device. So that's a cardio. So electrophysiology in the heart space. And that was a super fun, that was a breakthrough IDE/PMA trial. So it was huge. It was global. It was a lot of moving pieces that, all those logistics that I loved with the electrophysiology portion of it and I got to work with great leaders, and that's one thing that I find like really consistent about when I'm choosing my next job or my next project. I look at the leadership team and I get to see how they approach problems and that is how I make my decision of who I wanna work for, is if you approach problems in a methodical and innovative way, I love seeing that. I love being inspired by that. Those are the kind of leaders that I look up to is how well they approach problems in their thought process and their ability to innovate in a space that's either new or has been done a thousand times, either one.

But yeah, so worked at Shockwave, we were able to go IPO, the company went public and then we closed our trial. We started moving into the post-market trials, and I just still have that adrenaline high from the breakthrough study. We can get into this a little bit later, but those breakthrough PMA/ IDE trials are huge and they are a lot of logistics. It's very intense. It's a lot. It's a lot. And it's a grind, but in a fun way. For me, I love this. I love. So yeah, the thing that attracted me to medicine also attracted me to the breakthrough kinda trials, those breakthrough pivotal trials.

And so after that I was like, " I need another one." So I started looking. I got approached by a recruiter and this recruiter sent me a bunch of stuff and then I saw the Farapulse offer come across saying that they were looking for a clinical trial manager for their pivotal breakthrough trial. And I was like "That company looks like it's gonna change the game." Same thing with Shockwave, also changed the game. So I got on board with Farapulse which is another cardio EP, electrophysiology technology. And it was magic from the very beginning. And we just closed our trial-- which that trial had its own complications. It was a blinded trial and all the sites and like trying to figure out how to do all that through Covid, through all the things. So that's how I got to where I am now. Eventually, last year we were acquired by Boston Scientific. So, yeah, that's the very short background of how I got here, and now moving on to my next adventure, which is gonna be back in the neuro space.

Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Oh, that's so exciting. That is something that kept resonating with me as you were talking, was just your enthusiasm and passion for this particular industry and for your role within it. And it's just so much fun to hear how all of your different interests and passions are coming together in a way that, it sounds like just keeps you constantly engaged with the process, and you know that you're making a difference as you get to see it right in front of you. It sounds fabulous.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, it is. It is. I really do enjoy my job, even like the daily logistics, and not every day is magic. Some days are just the grind, but then two days later or a week later, you're back inspired. So I do love what I do and I love the pace in which the trials that I do sign up for go and it's really fun.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, in your role as manager for someone who doesn't know what a typical clinical trial might look like. How does it work? Is there like a typical process or it, I'm sure it varies per trial, but I'd just love to hear a little bit more about how you go about even organizing it to start with.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. Oh man. Oh, that's a good question. So there is, the FDA does have a reasonably prescribed way to put together a trial. So, when you're working in the startup space, what happens is you have somebody with a great idea. That person usually doesn't know how to build it. They usually don't know how to commercialize it. They usually don't know how to run a trial with it. So they have this great idea and then they go about trying to build this leadership team. So you'll try and find a CEO, you're gonna find funding, you're gonna start like prototyping some stuff. And then once you get to a point where you think that what you're building is viable, you bring on some engineers that work in the space, that are professional, they work in the startup space, kind of the same way I work in clinical trials. There's definitely people who work specifically in startups to engineer and build stuff like this.

So you bring on an engineering team, they build it, they test it, and then once they've gotten it to a point where, It's a viable product in a lab they usually bring on somebody like me, clinical trial manager, preclinical trial expert to start testing it in larger animals before we go into humans. So then you start putting together your preclinical data. And a lot of the times that's where somebody like me would jump in as a clinical trial manager or a clinical trial expert in some way. So it's usually not necessarily a clinical trial manager, but a clinical trial expert. In the service space, it's a fluid term. You could call 'em clinical trial specialist, whatever you want, but again, it's just somebody who has the expertise of bringing something from an engineering perspective all the way through market.

So, in that process, I get to build the protocols. I get to ask the questions. I get to set up the preclinical work so I can inform my clinical work, if that makes sense. So when we're putting together the preclinical work, you're putting together the studies, you're understanding the device, you're understanding the product, you're understanding the demographic that you're going after. So, the disease space basically. So that's one thing about clinical research, as somebody who specializes in clinical research, is the disease space changes with the technology. So I've worked in electrophysiology and neurology, so, atherectomy, ablation, therapy, neuromodulation.

So the disease space changes, the technologies change, but how you think about your job and how you approach things should be consistent, so it's that innovation. I think that's really what the difference is when you go into academia is you focus on as a very specific disease space and you focus on one very specific and you get into the minutiae of one specific thing. So if you're going into medicine you specialize, you subspecialize, and then you really understand that one protein of that one gene.

So, coming back to where I am now, I don't necessarily understand one specific disease, I have the opportunity and the privilege to work with a lot of different disease spaces. There's a lot of different products and I get to understand and innovate and build my knowledge as I move through my career. So I've worked in a lot of different types of medical devices and it's really fun being able to learn from the engineers and learn from the physicians, and learn from all of my colleagues as I go through my career. So I'm building my knowledge as I go along. So my specialty is building clinical trials. So to answer your question, there is a reasonably prescribed way to do it, but that prescribed way is driven a lot by your logic.

The FDA is your partner in all of this. So they have regulations that you have to follow. So as you're going through and you're building this process, as you're building these clinical trials, you have to make sure that you're adhering to all of the regulations that the FDA has set forward. So that's everything from building your internal standard operating procedures at your company to making sure that all of your regulatory documentation is above board and your operations, all of that stuff. So the FDA's your partner through all of this and making sure you're putting together a clinical plan and/ or protocol that is safe, effective, gets at the correct end points, targets the right demographic of people, disease state, and making sure it's safe and effective as you go through all of these steps from preclinical all the way through clinical.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And that actually brings up a question that I had, and that is, have there been any moments that have been scary in clinical trials because part of it from my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you are trying to establish, not only does this product work as intended, but is it safe? And of course you hope you've done enough pre-work with that to have a solid idea. But are there moments where you've just been like, whew, that did not go as planned?

Lindsey Jardine: We have a term for that. It's unexpected adverse events or unexpected device malfunctions, but that's a good question. So it's yes and no. To be clear: one, you want to make sure that you study your device in the preclinical setting as thoroughly as possible. So that's your engineers. And your engineers are also going to the FDA for pre-submission and the FDA's double checking everything. But with that being said, that's why we do so much diligent testing before we put it in humans in order to make sure that once we get into clinical trials, it is absolutely safe.

So, protocols, they test out for years after a procedure. But to make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row, all of our T's crossed and I's dotted, we're not gonna hurt anybody. I've never been a part of a product that I was ever afraid was going to hurt somebody. That being said, there are definitely times in lab where just " Oh, that happened." So there's definitely times where you're just like, "Oh my God, how did that happen?" In a lab setting, but never in a clinical setting to be very clear, I've never been a part of that. So in a startup, you'll have like your engineering on one side of the building and your operations or something on the other side. But when you're going through user testing or trying to design user interface, the engineering department will bring somebody in you're like, "Hey. I'm gonna teach you how to use this. Let me know if this makes sense to somebody who doesn't build it." So, I've definitely been in a few situations where I was using something and something unexpected happened. I was like, "What was that?" They're like, "Oh, we found a bug!"

So, stuff like that definitely happens, but I've never been clinically in fear of any of the devices that I've worked with. But I also work with really amazing engineers and really amazing physicians. So that's another really great part about what I get to do is I get to collaborate with physicians who do this for a living, who do that very specific, very granular work in one very specific disease state. So they also inform and help, and it's ultimately their responsibility to make sure that whatever they're using on their patients is safe and effective. So that's why we work really closely with all of our physician surgeon collaborators to make sure that we aren't doing anything that could hurt anybody, cuz that's obviously, that's the opposite of what we wanna do. So yeah, that's another thing that I love about my job is the collaboration.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it does seem the more that you've talked, the more I can sense how much you enjoy working with people and having that collaboration, that problem solving, we're in this together trying to make a difference. That's really cool. Another thing that you brought up that I really liked and something that I tend to ask my guests is about how you as a leader in the industry continue to prioritize your own learning and growing. And it sounds, because you get to work on so many different devices and with so many different indications, you really have this opportunity. It's almost built into your job. And then it just sounds like you as an individual are just a really curious person. So you're probably getting to learn and grow all the time. There's no stopping it.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, that's true. It's true. There is no stopping it. Honestly, that's why I chose the space that I'm in is I love learning. It's one of my favorite things in life is just expanding my knowledge base, learning fun new things. And even in my personal life, I'm always going out exploring, doing new things like learning and absorbing the world that we live in. And that's one consistent theme of my life is I just want to love the life that we have right now. And so learning and exploring and doing and driving yourself to, to a point of excellence is something that I truly enjoy doing. But yes, that learning is my job. And if I ever stop learning, I think that I would stop being good at my job. And hopefully by that time I can retire and learn something new, learn something that I haven't learned or even attempted to learn before. So, to answer your question, learning is definitively what I get paid to do.

Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. I love that. That is fantastic. Yeah. So is there a particular moment during your career that stands out to you as kind of a defining moment of "Yes, this is the right industry for me." Just confirmation that you really chose and that it was fulfilling some of those deep desires that you've had.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. That's a really good question. I can't say that there was ever one like lightning moment that told me that I was on the right path, but I do recall one specific moment where I knew I was on the wrong one. I think that the consistent feedback that I get throughout my career now is a continuing affirmation that I've chosen the right path and the fact that my personal happiness gets more-- like I, I gain more and more happiness with every passing day of my job. Not to say that you have to be happy every single day. I think that there is definitely something to be said with the highs and the lows in a moderated way, not the extreme highs and lows. But I consistently reaffirmed that I made the right decision.

But I remember probably the lowest point of my career that I had to take a step back and say, "This is not okay for me." I was working at that, the baseline project, and a lot of my mentors would call me probably more of a racehorse kind of personality, where I want to do stuff, I wanna improve, I wanna run it at full speed. And working on a project that was that logistically complicated with that many people and that many things, it was really fun. But, in the academic space, slow and the hierarchy, and it was definitely not my my favorite place because I remember there was this one instance where we had this intern and I was helping him and he and I were collaborating on a project and I was like, "Okay, this is how I'm gonna put all this stuff together."

And I have, like I'm known for my spreadsheets. I have this 80 tab spreadsheet and we're putting all together and we're putting all these formulas together. And he was helping me and it got to a point where I was like, "Man, I am super proud of this." I was really excited that I got to learn something about putting all of this stuff together. And I got to teach it as I was learning it. And I did it and then I got to teach it and then I got to see him like do some stuff and he felt very rewarded by it. And I felt very rewarded by that too. So that particular project had lots of different principal investigators. So we had four different principal investigators that I can remember.

And so we're in a room of 30 people. All of them are my superiors and obviously his superiors. But I'd found out that he had taken my work and he had presented it to my boss's boss as his own. And I had no idea that this was happening. And so I'm sitting in this meeting and he's presenting my work and you can't really stand up and be like, "Hey, get outta here, that's mine. I taught you that." And I was just fuming in this meeting. And there's just so much bureaucracy in that context that even if I were to say something, it would've fallen on deaf ears. And I did say something to my supervisor and they're like "Sorry, it's for the greater good." So, oh no, and I was just furious. And so I talked to him after and I was like, "Hey, you just put your name on my work." And he's, " I've changed the color scheme." And I was like, "Did you now? That's so cute."

But there was like, there was no repercussion. There was no anything. So I probably did an immature thing and just stopped talking to him. And he didn't take that very, he was an intern. It's fine, but so I'm just like, I'm not working with you anymore. I can't trust you. So he brought me flowers and he put them on my desk and I threw them. And that was brought like, but I remember like taking these flowers and throwing 'em at a wall and I was like, "This is a bad spot. I should not be here. I'm setting myself up for failure." So, that's when I decided that I needed to leave.

So I moved into the private industry, which was much more intimate. Everybody saw everybody else's work. Everybody knew, everyone was all striving towards the same thing, and it was never an ego trip for anybody, if that makes sense. And there's always that greater good feeling like we're all trying towards the greater good, but you personally are not sacrificing for somebody else's glory. And that's the thing that really got me about academia and that kind of " grind until you die" space. I was like, but. I did that. I feel good about that. Not that person gets to present my work and they get to feel good about it. So, to answer your not question. That was the moment where I knew I was in the wrong place.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. But those moments are just as important cuz they're teaching you what doesn't work and what does not align with who you want to be or, or how you wanna show up in the world. So I think actually, I really appreciate you sharing that story in that very just sort of human moment because I think it's so important to be honest about those kinds of moments that also are exactly what you said, " this is not the right path for me." And then it sounds because of that experience, you were able to go, okay. It's not like I have to get rid of the entire industry or anything like that. It was just, this isn't the right place for me and I'll find the right place for me. And I think that's really important too. So. Yeah.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. And I do get reaffirmed by my job every day, and I love that. So it wasn't some shock, like lightning bolt moment, like this is the one. It was a slow burn that keeps burning brighter over time for me.

Lindsey Dinneen: And I love that too, because how wonderful is that? It's not just this one flash of inspiration, which could be the catalyst to continue on the path and do something great and whatnot. But I love that you're in a position now where you can just be constantly, maybe in very tiny little ways, but just constantly reaffirming this is right. And that's special. That's really cool.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. That is special. It is. And being invited on a podcast like this, I'm like, "When did this happen? When did I become the leader?" Like yesterday I was throwing flowers at people in a violent way. And all of a sudden I've been getting interviewed for a leadership podcast. Yeah, there's definitely been some significant changes that, all of a sudden, you turn around and you're like, I am the person that I wanna be. I did get here. This is amazing.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I worked hard for this and it is paying off. And yeah, I can change and grow. That's great. That's fantastic.

Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is very special. Yeah.

Lindsey Dinneen: Just for fun, I'm gonna take the interview in a slightly different direction, but imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?

Lindsey Jardine: Oh man, that is another really good question. You're making me think. I like it. I would say if I could teach a masterclass in anything, it would be confidence. When I was sitting there watching my work that I've been, the project that I've been working on for months, being presented by somebody else, and then my reaction to it, that was a deep feeling of insecurity. And I think building confidence is a very important thing and building the appropriate confidence is another very important thing. I mean, for many years I was a "fake it till you make it" person. But having all of that insecurity being presented and then having somebody else take credit for my work, and then everybody else saying " So what, who are you?" If I had more confidence in myself, I would've reacted differently. And if I would've had more confidence in my ability to figure out problems, I would have not put myself in that position. I would have figured out how to get out earlier or figured out that "grind until you die" was not the right path.

So if I could build a masterclass, if I could help people understand, knowing their own personalities and finding that confidence in themselves. And I think that is an invaluable skill in any industry is not that you don't have to be the person up on stage presenting the project. You can have your own confidence in building something and saying " that's mine" and owning it as opposed to having that insecurity and exploding all over everybody.

So I would say that, yeah, I think that is definitely something that we are facing in a society that is troubling to me is the we're gonna go meta completely away from my specific story, but I see so many people with anxiety, I see so many people with imposter syndrome. So many people that even like Instagram, all these like social media feeds, it feels like a very deep-seated insecurity. And I dislike that. I dislike how we have to look a certain way or have to act a certain way or like all of these different movements to make people be seen and understood. And if we could collaborate and if we could speak with confidence, if we could speak with understanding that everyone here has some issues and if we could speak confidently about what we know, if we could be confident about who we are, then I think we could solve a lot of problems and not erupt into this, this really controversial space.

So I know that having confidence also means having compassion and having that ability to reach out and say, "these are my flaws, but that doesn't mean I'm incompetent. I'm confident in myself. I'm confident that I know that this is the space that I don't know anything about and I need somebody to teach me, and that has so much confidence." And that's another thing that I've learned over my years of working in clinical research is there is no space, there's no time to fake information. You have to learn information and you have to have the confidence to say that, "I don't know this. I need to learn it." No matter how stupid that question is. "I need to learn that piece of information so I can do my job confidently and I can be confident in the product that I'm putting forward." So, if I was going to teach a masterclass, I choose confidence.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That was really insightful too. I appreciate your perspective on confidence and, like you alluded to, appropriate confidence too with empathy, with compassion, with collaboration.

Lindsey Jardine: You can't possibly know everything. But somebody else knows something. And if they don't know it, you have to have the confidence to be able to figure it out.

Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And that curiosity is a strength. Because you don't know everything. Like you are highly specialized in, in many different ways, and you have this fantastic capacity to learn, but it doesn't mean that you're necessarily an expert in every single thing you come across and so having the confidence to be curious and to say "I, I didn't know this. Tell me more." That's fantastic.

Lindsey Jardine: That's truly it. That really is the curiosity and the confidence . You said it really beautifully. Just tell me more. Teach me everything and then we can change the world together and we can be better people to each other.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love it. What is one thing that you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?

Lindsey Jardine: Oh my goodness. That's a really good one. The one thing that I wanna be remembered for I would say, my confidence. Yeah, I would say my confidence. And that's my all-encompassing confidence, compassion, and curiosity, because I roll all of those things up into confidence, if that makes sense. So my confidence doesn't come from perceived understanding of myself, but it comes from the feedback that I get on a daily basis from my family, my friends. My confidence is something that I hope inspires and I hope that people remember me for the type of confidence that I have. How about that? The type of confidence.

Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I like it. Awesome. Okay, final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?

Lindsey Jardine: Oh, man. Okay. The one thing that makes me smile. I would say, life. That's not too tacky. Yeah. Life makes me smile. I am continuously impressed by the world around me. And that comes with all of the changes that life brings, and it's not always pretty. It's not always great. I've definitely had some times where I didn't wanna do it anymore, and I want to encourage anybody who's listening, who does not have that passion for life to just wait cuz it does get better. Because I, I threw flowers at people, and not in a fun way, in a very violent way. There's definitely times where I was not happy or impressed with life and I didn't wanna do it anymore, and I just I didn't think the next thing was gonna be any better than the last. But I can honestly say right now, life makes me happy, not on a daily basis because I think it's a misconception that you have to be happy every single day because you don't really understand happiness and you don't really understand what life has a capacity for until you know what the bad looks like.

So having bad times is just as important as having good times and understanding that the next piece of your life has the potential to be the best, has potential to be better than anything you've been through so far. But it makes me smile every day knowing that I get to keep doing this in this space and time that we're in right now. And in the world right now, there's turmoil everywhere, but I am very encouraged about life and it makes me happy because I get to see how hard everybody works. I get to see that we are going through something very profound and I'm very confident in the future. And life makes me smile.

Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. That's the first time anyone has said that, so I love it. Beautiful answer.

Lindsey Jardine: Thanks. It's kinda meta, but that's the one thing, yeah I don't know. Boyfriends, girlfriends, family, the sunshine. All of it's nice. All of it's good. Life makes me smile even when it's making me cry. It's the pain and the struggle and the future that, that just inspires me. And I love that and that makes me happy.

Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Lindsey, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. I just really appreciate you taking the time to join me today. We are really honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time to Opportunity International, which designs, delivers and scales innovative financial solutions that helps families living in extreme poverty build sustainable livelihoods and access quality education for their children. So thank you for choosing that organization to support, and seriously, thanks again for your time. I just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. I love the fact that you have such a passion for life and for your work, and I know what you're doing makes a difference, so thank you.

Lindsey Jardine: Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on. This was a lot of fun. All your questions were so good. I loved it.

Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Glad to hear that.

Lindsey Jardine: Thank you for doing this, for doing you. It's very inspiring.

Lindsey Dinneen: Appreciate that. I appreciate that. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.

 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.

Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.

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