6 days ago
Dr. Shalabh Gupta | CEO, Unicycive | Transforming Kidney Disease Treatment, Frameworks for Prioritization, & Leadership in MedTech
Guest links: https://unicycive.com/
Charity supported: Feeding America
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at theleadingdifference@velentium.com.
PRODUCTION CREDITS
Host: Lindsey Dinneen
Editing: Marketing Wise
Producer: Velentium
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 056 - Dr. Shalabh Gupta
[00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
[00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
[00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
[00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
[00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I am so excited to introduce you to my guest, Dr. Shalabh Gupta. Dr. Gupta is the founder and CEO of Unicycive Therapeutics. He is a visionary in healthcare, leading groundbreaking efforts to design innovative therapies and reimagine how we approach unmet medical needs. His work goes beyond the lab as he's driving a healthcare revolution by developing innovative therapies addressing critical gaps in treatment. His perspective combines decades of experience and expertise in drug design with a deep commitment to equity in health care.
Well, welcome to the show, Shalabh. I'm so excited that you're here with me today.
[00:01:35] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: Thank you. Thank you for hosting me.
[00:01:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. I'd love if you wouldn't mind just telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what led you to MedTech.
[00:01:45] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: By way of background, I'm a physician, trained, practiced, did my medical training in internal medicine, residency in physical medicine and rehab, research fellowship in cardiac and pulmonary rehabilitation, board certified physician, practice in New York at NYU hospital, NYU Medical Center. This is where I did my medical training for roughly decade after finishing medical school.
I also have a graduate degree in finance management from NYU. While I was doing my residency training, I realized that I wanted to find a way to have a broader impact on society as well as what we were working on in learning medicine. So, I started my career working initially with a biotechnology company at the time to help them get their drug with FDA through a regulatory approval process. The beginning of the process is called IND following a investigation new drug application, IND application. I actually visited FDA on their behalf, met with FDA back in the time when everything used to be in person.
Built from there onward, joined Wall Street from working as a stock analyst. So I covered biotech companies as a stock analyst, and the weekend and holidays that were available, I worked to continue to practice the medicine at NYU as an attending physician, and then joined another bank and covered pharmaceutical stocks and worked covering six of the largest pharma companies that include Pfizer, Merck, Viacom, Selling Power, Eli Lilly, Bristol Myers Squibb.
From there, I moved to California. I worked for Genentech in corporate strategy. Genentech, at the time, and continues to be, one of the largest biotechnology companies. And from working at Genentech, I got my inspiration to start my own companies. So I founded two companies prior to finding starting Unicycive.
All my companies are focused on aesthetic therapeutic area. Unicycive is focused on nephrology, treatment of kidney diseases, and we have two drugs in development. We have a lead drug that is pending approval from the US FDA in June of 2025 this year. And the second, I guess, finish phase 1 clinical trial in the UK. And we are in discussion with the agency to proceed with the next stage of clinical trial in the US. So that's a quick background.
[00:04:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That's incredible. Thank you for sharing your story. Yeah. So let's talk about your company now. You've become CEO of this company. You're developing these products that are going to change lives. What first made you realize that there was a gap that needed to be filled in the market for this? And then, what prompted you to go, "You know what? Hey, I think I can have the solution for this or I can have the answer to this."
[00:04:38] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: The first question that you ask, understanding the unmet need in medicine, there are a lot of problems that you can address. So, to give you a framework, if I am thinking about a problem, I want to understand if a couple of things, and in order of priorities, these are: can I find a solution that with my resources-- resources is time, energy, and money-- can I create a product that will truly make it to the market?
Number two is that I also feel that one can get very blindsided that "I have a solution," but not understand what other solutions exist in the market. So understanding the competitive landscape. If I create this drug, this device, this product, and it is going to take three to four years in the market to come to the market-- which, by the way, in medical word is a still very fast track because it takes much longer-- what will the competitive landscape look like for 5 years down the road? So that's the second part.
And third is that what is the solution that I'm developing? Is it unique in terms of having a novel, either as a drug device or drug device combination, or as a patented drug, patented device, because in our industry, it's not really possible to scale up something until unless you have an IP or intellectual property protection.
And then from there onward, the last thing is also, who's going to fund me, how I think about funding, not for next six months a year, but also a continuum of the product development. If I think about all these 4-5 problems, then you start to narrow it down.
There are some problems that are very much worthy of exploration. For example, treatment of Alzheimer's, we all know it's a big unmet need, we all know there's a big market opportunity. But I realized that was something we couldn't do it with the products or the development candidates that I had seen.
So, being able to define where is the end point and goal. Being able to understand, can I make an impact? And when I say I, I speak for myself, but each one of us, I always remind entrepreneurs, we each one of us have our own deck of cards. We have to play with our cards, we can't compare ourselves with somebody else, or we can compare some other cases study.
So understanding more about what is so unique that I can bring to table that can I make a difference and then making a business around this where the thesis lies. Once you identify that, then there's a question about continuing to execute and keep changing your plan as you go along.
[00:07:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love your framework for thinking through all of those things. And so of course you use that when you thought, "Hey, here's this issue. I could potentially have a solution," and you went through this process. And then can you tell us about your innovation now and how that is helping and how you expect it to help change all these wonderful lives?
[00:07:33] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: So, so for treatment of kidney diseases, first of all, it has been one area of development that has not had that much of innovation. And, and I think that is where the initial part of the thesis was that focusing on nephrology of kidney diseases is not same as developing a drug for cancer treatment.
Cancer treatment changes every six months a year. The standard of care continues to evolve. Is there an unmet need in cancer treatment? A hundred percent, but the part is that the pace of innovation is very rapid. Is it same in nephrology? It's getting there, but it's still the development of a new products in nephrology still is not at the same pace.
So I thought there was something we could make a difference by a small company. The drug that I acquired from another company was a drug that had finished a clinical trial. So it had shown that the drug is safe. It had also shown some signal of it working in healthy volunteers. That's a phase one trial.
And the innovation came from a car battery company that had figured out how to make a big, large size pill to make it smaller. And sometimes greatest innovation, greatest insight come from the fact that when I talk to the kidney doctors, the physicians who take care of these patients there with the treatment of kidney diseases, they said the problem for these patients are the patients have to take 12 to 15 pills per day.
And this innovation allowed us to be able to make that number of pills go down from 13 to 12 or 15 to three pills per day, one pill with each meal. And then the regulatory pathway became a bit more clear that if I can show that our drug is similar to the drug that was in the market, maybe there was an opportunity to go through expedited pathway, which is what we did.
And I acquired the drug in 2018, went to FDA right after acquiring the drug to expedite the pathway again, thinking about de risking the development pathway. And as I mentioned in 2025, we are expecting the approval. So that is the process about it. And that's the story behind the lead drug.
[00:09:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Great. Excellent. So that is really exciting. And as you continue to go forward with this company and the innovations that you're creating, what is your ultimate goal or dream that you're really striving for?
[00:10:06] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: So, the focus for Unicycive is building new novel treatment for kidney diseases. Our lead drug is expecting approval in June 2025. But we have a second drug in development, and we continue to think about what will be something that we as a small company can bring to market. There are other areas of unmet need in kidney treatment.
But instead of doing too many things at the same time, we continue to think, "How do we grow our company? What will be the vision for the company three years down the road, five years down the road?" And what we want to continue doing is to develop the drug candidates, advance them. Right now, after the first drug we get through approval, it will be the second drug.
There is a thought process behind it. One of the biggest challenges that I've seen for smaller companies and startups is that they end up in doing too many things at the same time, which is difficult to do, even for big companies. You know, big companies, they have a one product that is a marquee product, they launch that and then they develop other things. So, being able to stay focused is also key because you can have a lot of energy, you can have a lot of ideas, but you have to focus on which one you can do first.
[00:11:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is so true. It's such great advice, a good reminder. Yes, focus is so important. You know, honestly, that's probably one of the tricky things that startups in this particular field might struggle with is that focus. So I'm wondering what kind of advice do you have for say a brand new entrepreneur in the industry who has these great ideas, but you know, maybe has so many that they're a little too scattered.
[00:11:52] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: Right. So, I think you may start with 10 ideas but the framework I gave you that: can this idea in this given timeframe with my resources and the funds that I can raise, can it make a difference? So you start to narrow it down. You start with a big funnel, narrow it down. And then maybe you have two or three ideas. Instead of thinking to yourself that "No, I'm not going to tell my idea to anyone because somebody else can take it away," find people who will be willing to pressure test those ideas. Then you will have identified something, maybe one Idea that is worth the pursuit. So then you focus on that.
So that's one part of how to triage it because we all have ideas, but those ideas may not be worth developing once you go and talk to the marketplace. And marketplace is your investors, the physicians, and the patients. I keep saying about these three stakeholders, because if physicians cannot prescribe what you are developing, then it's of no use. If patients don't necessarily benefit, then it's of no use. And if you cannot get insurance companies a reimbursement for that means the product will never get here.
So it's a process, but nobody can come up with an idea. And there is no great idea. There are ideas that you have to, and then once you find that one idea that resonates with all the stakeholders, physicians are excited about it. If you talk to patients, and you want to do that early on, you don't want to develop an idea and then go, you know, that is the greatest idea but nobody really perceives it that way that except you and a couple of your friends and people who work with you.
I don't mean in a bad way. I mean, that you want to be able to test this idea very quickly. So once you get that idea, once you identify what is that the company should be focused on, then the question about is actually building an execution plan. And the only advice I can give is that at any given day for a company, startup, especially whether you're a founder or you're a founding team member, the list of priorities is 50, 5, 0, or maybe 100. It takes time to figure out of those 50, which are the top three that are most important and then being able to focus on those three.
You know, the reason I say that no one can work on 50 priorities at the same time. But we all can take two or three priorities and say, "These are the three things that I'm going to work on today. That is this week. Those are the things I'm going to do this month." And therefore you start to develop identifying priorities. The right ones takes time. Sometimes it is a fundraising. Sometimes it's a building a team. Sometimes it's a product development. Sometimes it's all three of them, but being able to allocate your time and energy and focus is a key.
People say it's the question of money. I don't think it's a question of money. Money is one of the resources, but the biggest resource we all have is a time and energy and focus. In a company of our size, we are a publicly listed company, and we now have grown from where we used to be, and it's still small. Even today, there are a lot of things we choose not to do. We choose not to go to conferences. We choose not to publish papers.
If something is a priority to us, we say, "This is the only thing we're going to focus on. This is the next three months, this is our main goal." And every team meeting I have, I always remind people, three priorities. More than three, way too many. One may not be enough. But because if you can't remind people, what is the priority for the company, then you will not succeed. It is a very challenging environment to think about a startup company or companies in general. And when you have too many priorities, you tend to lose focus on.
By building priorities, having priorities, executing them. You create momentum, you create confidence. They create success and you keep climbing the ladder. But truly the biggest challenge for us in the beginning of the career is that identifying which are those three priorities that matter. And once you have had some experience, then the challenge is to keep those priorities and change them as you go along, right?
As you go along, you have to continue to grow. For example, in the beginning, it may be the five people you have and that may be enough. But as where we are in the company, it's a question about growth of the organization, right size, not too many people, not too little, hiring enough people so we can continue to execute on our vision and the promises that we made to ourself and to our investors.
[00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you for that advice. That was fantastic. And such a great way to narrow it down and help people understand how to narrow down so that they can actually focus and succeed before moving on. I love that. Thank you. So, you know, looking back over your life, and of course, you've had such an incredible career that has really taken you in a lot of different directions. Could 10 year old you have ever anticipated where you'd be today?
[00:16:54] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: I don't think so. I think I think we all have a what I call a true north compass. What I did think at the 10 years of age, if I can go back, maybe 10 is too early but maybe 15 or 16 or 17, that hasn't changed. Let me tell you 2 things that I always felt most inspired and excited about.
Number one was that I wanted to be in healthcare because, intellectually, I like biological sciences. I felt, "My gosh, what could I do with that if I could make a difference?" And number two was that I, from very early on, I wanted to be something which could help people directly. As you know, there are many ways you can help people, but being in medicine or healthcare, I felt there was a direct impact.
Now, looking back after several decades, I feel that part of the influence was my dad. My dad is a physician, continues to see patients and do pro bono work. So that had a very lasting influence on me. That helped me to think about, okay, this is what I want to do. Then being trained as a physician, then going to work on Wall Street, then there was a question about understanding how the impact can be broadened, if you will.
The way to think about what I do today versus what I did, say, as a physician, physicians see, say, 10 patients, maybe 12 patients if you're seeing an outpatient basis per day. And if you're in an ICU or ICU doctor, an ER doctor, you could see more number of patients, but then smaller time. And you multiply that impact that many patients, let's just say 10 patients per day, and you work at 300, 350 days, 360 days, 365 days, don't take any break, but that is that many patients a year.
What we do today has a potential to impact hundreds and thousands and millions of patients and not just in the U S, globally. So from one vantage point is just magnifying the impact. And the other vantage point is doing what I would have done before. I still love sciences every day. My job is to not just talk about business, but also think about, "How do we fundamentally solve the problem?" And having had those experiences you know, it helps you to keep yourself grounded.
One part, I know this wasn't your question, but one advice I can give people who are thinking about developing their careers as an entrepreneur, if you are a founder and CEO, especially think about your career or skill set as I spoke, a wheel, a circle. Every skill that you have, some of us start with more technical background, like me and MD. Then you have to develop their finance and business skills and the business development skills.
So sometimes people say, "Well, you know, ABC went to grad school and they dropped out of grad school and they started a company." That's wonderful, but think about much longer beyond a two-year, three-year, five-year time horizon. And that's what helped me to think about my career.
So I worked on the Wall Street, but that gave me a finance and understanding about how public companies are valued, not just by the company, but how stock analysts value the company, how investors value the company, what moves the stock, what did Genentech to understood. That gave me the chance to understand how a big biopharma company thinks about their product development. And at Genentech, in some interactions we have had, we were looking at the products from other smaller companies, either to collaborate with them or to acquire those products. So that's a different skill set.
I went very early on, as I said, in my career, I went to FDA. So even though I'm not regulatory expert, but I understand how agencies think about the product approval so that helps you to make a more of a holistic viewpoint because the business has become more complex, and you cannot just have a only business degree and you say, "Well, I'm going to succeed." Some people have rounded that up by years and years of experiences.
And then there is also innate desire to learn. I learned from not just doing the work I do every day, but my, my, you know, talked a lot about it. I read anytime I get I read books that are not related to medicine, that are not necessarily related to health care, because you have to understand how to grow a revolution. You have to understand leadership skills that are not necessarily taught in schools. So, you have to find a way to continue to refine yourself, because the only way you can create a great company is to become a better version of yourself.
[00:21:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for talking about that and for sharing your advice. And I love that image of the wheel. It's a good reminder that sometimes life takes you on very interesting tangents, but sometimes they all do merge at some point. You've got this little sliver of this knowledge that you're working on, and then this experience, and then they start building and I really love that, that, that way of thinking about it and also remembering that It's very useful.
So, so like even earlier, I was struck, you talked about how there was inspiration from car batteries, right? And so how interesting is that to go from, what you might expect within your industry, here's how to solve a problem. But then you guys went outside and said, how do other people solve problems? Like maybe we can borrow from that. And I think that's really cool.
[00:22:21] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: And I also think that if you stop focusing on only in your industry, learn from anywhere. Some of the best learnings that I have personally, that felt inspirational to me, did not come from biotech companies. They come from tech companies, truly. When you think about the worst, most successful tech companies like Amazon, Apple. I can go on and on, but there are things that you can learn from them. There are things you can learn from the founder of Amazon, Jeff Bezos. He talks about building Amazon and he talks about doing many experiments at a smaller scale that fail at Amazon in order for them to succeed at a few that really work.
And this is where I was saying that culling the ideas, you may start with 10 ideas, but no one can develop 10 ideas, no one. And it's not because of money. People say, "Well, that if I had money." There have been numerous examples where companies have been funded with lots of money and the companies fail. Part of the problem is that when you get too much money, I think you may not realize that you still have to deliver. Because focus and execution takes really knowing what the target is, and then hitting the target and not one time and time again. Targets may change, but the companies cannot focus in 20 different things. In the beginning, you have to start with a very key thesis.
[00:23:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, so learning from other industries, and that actually kind of also brings up a thought. So as you've gone along in your career and you've had many different iterations of who you are and what you bring to the world, now, are there any moments that really stand out to you as affirming, "Yes, I am in the right place at the right time?"
[00:24:04] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: Yeah, that's a very good question. And I have had a chance to think about it every now and then. So there are there, there are certain observations I'll make. You know, people always say, " What will be your dream job?" And I think the dream job for someone is the job that which you will do any given day, and you will feel a joy that you're doing it and you're not doing for remuneration. You're not doing because you're going to get paid.
And we all have those different moments in time. People talk about "flow" where the time stops because you're doing something so deeply engaging that you lost track of time. You forgot where you are. You're not feeling tired. For me building of this company and the team that we have assembled at Unicycive is that flow. Any day that I'm not traveling, I am in my office. I don't work from home. I am every single day in my office.
And sure we have a small team, but when we work with the team, these are motivated, driven people with decades of experiences. We feel that we are in a common mission, like we are solving the world's greatest problem. And I know that may be exaggeration, but that's how it feels. And being with them in a room and thinking about a complex problem-- and not just thinking of a problem like how big companies think about it-- but thinking of the problem in a scientific way, but delivering it a solution that only a small company can do that to me is a joy.
Number two part is that as I've gone further on my career, I, I am a mentor to a number of startups from Stanford and UCSF, and many Stanford companies, many of them come with a very different problem than purely a biotech company. Since the pro bono work, I do this because I find by telling other people from their problem, I get to reflect on my own problem, and I do that on every quarter.
There's one or two companies and I've been really privileged. I feel one of the greatest joys to meet with these great CEOs and Stanford has been a great collaborator. They have a program called Start X in which they have these companies that are participating in a accelerator program. And Stanford's accelerator is different and unique that they don't take any equity. They provide you the opportunity for mentorship. I was part of that program many years ago.
So I meet with the CEOs and many of these CEOs will come very different problem. As an example, there is a company that's focused on artificial intelligence using interaction between a physician or healthcare provider and patient, and being able to use AI to streamline that interaction. That is a point that I saw of 10 years of clinical practice, how that communication is broken, literally is broken.
Patients go to doctors, not because doctors are the world's greatest knowledge source, but patients at the end of day, they need someone to help them feel better, help them understand the problem that the physician can solve it. What ended up in being in today's healthcare system in the U. S. is that doctors have become mechanical and not because doctors are bad, because we are given these many things to document these many things to chart.
If you talk to a physician, a primary care physician, many times the physician is sitting behind the computer screen. Those bedside manners are gone, like literally they are not there until you go into concierge medicine because the physician has to fill up this chart. I practice medicine.
So understanding how this company and this CEO, this entrepreneur is trying to solve that problem, I lean back to the years of clinical practice. Then I lean back to the building the company. They're prioritizing it, having three priorities, having five priorities, and then being able to understand. And every company has some things which are similar, growth of your product development, continuing to advance the company, continuing to tell the story, attracting the right team members.
It just gets magnified at a broader level. But the problems start similar, very similar. You know, think about when we talk about tech companies, Apple, the first thing they had to do, develop a product, then build a team, then sell the product, tell the, sell the vision, you know, and then continue to raise money.
And that part is seems sometime very lonely. It also seems that I am uniquely burdened with these problems. And I always remind people, "You know, as much as you would like to think that you are unique. I assure you, it is not a problem that we are gifted with. We all have to face the same set of problems, sometimes more, sometimes less."
So then you start to take them less personally. You start to say, "Okay, I'm not the first one to face this problem. These problems have happened to people like me before and they will overcome. How can I do it?" Then you'd become safe, a solution based thinking versus a place where you get overwhelmed with the problem because problems exist.
And if anyone is listening to this podcast and if they've developed a started a company, I can assure you the problems come with a flood. They are not going to end ever. So it is disappointing. Sometime it feels that, "Oh my gosh, it is me versus the world," but it is not so. If you have good set of mentors, people who are not directly involved in day to day in your business, there are people who can help you think through it.
And that is something that I find a great joy in talking to these CEOs, being able to help them understand the problem. And I say, you know, a couple of hours a month, but then when I go back to my own work, one that I realized this was the same problem I faced a few years ago. Two, it's a similar version of the problem I face at a slightly larger scale today. And three, being able to step out of from your own narrow zone, it gives you perspective. Then what I said to you about that problems are not, these are not personal problems. These are the problems we all face developing a product. It doesn't matter whether you healthcare.
People tell me health care or product development is really hard. You talk to my colleagues, our CEOs who are running tech companies. Products in development and tech companies may seem easier, but to create a great product that truly solves customers problem, it's not easy.
[00:30:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and well, I love that mentorship and sort of teaching and guiding, giving advice to the next generation is something is of a core value of yours and something you really care about. And it actually is a great segue into my next question, which is just pivoting the conversation for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be within your industry, what you're doing right now, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach?
[00:31:02] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: I think as much as we all feel that entrepreneurship is an external game, I think it's a lot of internal mindset, being able to understand yourself better. Being able to understand who you are, what are your true core values, what really drives you. It takes time and it requires a continuous interrogation, asking yourself, "Is this really what I enjoy?"
Some of us feel it's a glamour that we feel like we want to be CEO. Some of us would be better off as a CTO, Chief Technology Officer. Some of us would not want to do startups. It's not for everybody. And it's okay because you can work in a bigger company and can be, you know, people talk about entrepreneurial pursued within a large organization. Maybe that's what for you.
But being able to understand yourself, it's a very important part. And I think unfortunately, formal education does not help us no matter what degrees and which schools. And it really doesn't matter whether you a science degree, MD, PhD, or your business school degree like MBA, we're all very uniquely different, and we have different values. What one person sees inspired by, for somebody else, it may be a nightmare, you know.
It's a thing that people think that startups are so much fun. I read a joke. It says, "People leave 9 to 5 job to work from 5 to 9, which is 5 a. m. to 9 p. m." So I think that's because this is some truth to it. And I've said to people again and again that if making money is your objective, please don't go as to run a startup. It is probably the worst way to think about pursuing the financial part.
You do something because you have a faith and belief in something. And it doesn't have to be the faith about changing humanity. It's about something that you have a unique skill set or unique product idea that you believe you can bring to the marketplace. The biggest focus we all can have is making an impact. If I can serve a large number of patients, I can serve a large physician, I will have a product that will make money, therefore, that will make money for enterprise that will make money for investors. And therefore, as a company, we will make money.
It's a very simple truth, but we like to make it complicated. I really mean it. The more I got to understand this part of the process better, which goes back to the basic thing that I said to you, if you said that you have a master class, the one thing I will say to you, it's spend time to understand yourself. And it's okay to realize that what I thought I like, I don't like it. The part that I talked to you about flow, it takes efforts.
I've had many careers, but when I work in my company, the time can stop for four or five hours, literally we can be working on something. And I have a team and it's not just me alone. I have a team that when we think about a problem, these are people who have spent three decades in working in different companies, large, small, many size companies, we could work cohesively, collectively, think about a problem.
And that to me, it's a joy. For me, that is a creation, right? You know, we're thinking about the problem, which may be a design of a clinical trial, because we have to think we have to use brains. And I always say, "God gave us a gift, which is a neuron. So use it, let's use them." And challenge yourself, right? And the challenge in a good way, not be a condescending ending jerk and say "No, how could you do it?"
I try to say to people, "Look, I understand this is how it is done, but I want to do two things. Number one, please believe me that we can do better, faster, cheaper. And number two, I promise you that whatever I'm telling you, I'm not going to tell you and walk out of the conference room. I will work hand to hand." We call it a hand to hand combat is essentially that I'm not just telling you I'm going to work with you. I want to find the solution, but we can't do that thing that are you used to.
Every trial, people tell me it's going to take 18 months, 12 months, it's going to cost as much. We shrink that thing timeline cost by not 10, 20%. We talking 50%. And these are people have done this before. So, so I need the courage to be honest and say, "No, we can't do it. We have to do it faster, better, cheaper, but how?" And then asking them. So, I say, "It's okay that we walk away and we don't have a clue. It's okay. Today's Thursday. Let's come back. Take three days to think about it."
But the reason is that because when you ask yourself from a place that I can't do it, the mind is start to find solution versus when you say, no, I can't do it. Because in that case, it's a subconscious mind that keeps on giving you 15 reasons why you can't do it. People talk about growth mindset. I've always said to people, "We may not be able to do this thing today, but the understanding that with a little bit of help, a little bit of patience, a little bit of it, making ourself better, we can become that company, we can become that organization."
And that really requires challenging ourself. And that's where I went back to. I want to go back to this question you asked earlier. People talk a lot about entrepreneurship as if it is some very specific skill set. I think because if you know yourself, you know what is your true zone is, then you want to surround yourself places that you are either not good at, or you don't enjoy doing it, right?
In the beginning, it is just you and a vast amount of problems to face. Then you start to build your team. Then you start to see yourself, "You know, maybe Bob can do this work. I really, I'm not that good at it. I don't like doing it." Then you start to rely and surround yourself with not same skill set, but the people who are complementary skill set. And that's how you build a team. That's the foundation of team. Then you build trust and you say to Bob, "Whatever you do, it's not your fault. I'm here to protect you." You don't point fingers at each other.
We always remind the example of Navy SEAL. You know, I've never worked in the US Army. I was not an Army veteran, but the ethos that Navy SEAL uses where the team wins, I always tell people we are a winning team. We are not looking for MVPs, you know, because the teams win. Teams create products, teams create value. Individual glories is not useful and this is something you have to keep reminding us that we keep drilling it down and say " No, it's not Bob. It's not John. It's not James. It's us. It's as a team."
Again, as you grow through the company stages, your skill set has to continue to evolve and people always say, "Well, how do you lead a team?" The first thing that I always said, "Every single person in my team, you are a leader. Why? You wake up in the morning, brush your teeth. You're leading yourself." Really! Like, what do you do with your day? If you happen to be a parent or partner, a spouse or somebody, you have people you influence around yourself, right? So instead of worrying about, "Oh, you know, I want to lead a company."
First, you have to lead yourself and you have to lead with courage. It's starting a company, building a company, right? Yeah. No matter what the media tells you, it is hard. It's hard to develop a product. It's hard because the challenges are not one or two. There are many. Being able to drill down, saying "These are the three things I'll focus on. These are the only things that matter." And then if something new comes up, you have to face that challenge and put the third in your list. It comes in a different page.
You know, I use this basic exercise. I have a notebook, a physical notebook and not electronic one, and a piece of paper. What are the top three priorities? And then the other part is that I've asked people to do this exercise when startup companies, CEOs come and tell me all their problems, all the things they want to do. I said, "Humor me if you will. This is the end of the year. And let's say today is we are in 2025. What would you like to tell yourself a year from now? If everything happened the best you could imagine, how many customers, how many products, what will be the stage of product, who would have funded you? Who are the people behind you?"
And I asked him to write in a whiteboard. And I say, imagine, no, this is the five thing. If they write 25 things, I say, "No, this is down to five things. What are those five things you would like?" And again, everything has just gone and you can't believe you're sitting there. What will it take? Is it this? And then you start to have a goalpost, right? It's a target. Then you work backward.
[00:39:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. That is such great advice. So thank you, first of all, for sharing, but I think in general, your masterclass would be so much-- you'd have to have a full day or more. That's great though. I love that. How would you wish to be remembered after you leave this world?
[00:39:57] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: That's a very good question. That's one that I ask myself every day. The most important thing for me is to be who I am to make a difference for people who are around me. For me, my family is very important. I have kids and I always think about it. What will my children remember?
Then it comes down to people who work with me. We want to give an experience to people. I've had people who have worked for I keep saying it two or three decades. My true wish is that I always say for whatever time they work at Unicycive, I want them to be remembering this is the best time they work for a company and that is the best hope we can do it. Because as a entrepreneur, if I can make our company the best experience, best environment, then that creates the best products.
And a company like us, we realize that we are going to face challenges and it's not a question of this, the question is how many challenges. The question is not going to be, "Will the challenge defeat us?" The question is, "How do we overcome the challenges?" So it's about growth mindset, having a very distinct, clear vision and empowering people.
And last thing is that what we do in healthcare affects millions of people people. Our drug is not going to be just in the U. S. We have partnerships outside U. S. We think about patients in China, South Korea, Southeast Asia. We are talking to companies in Europe. It's an opportunity to make a difference globally. And that is what keeps us going. That's what, you know, when that's when I talk with flow, that is what makes you want to work, whether it's a weekend or whether it's a late evening.
And I think that is something which we all need to do to find something that is meaningful. And meaning means different things to different people in different phases of life. So it doesn't have to be, you know, I tell even my own team member, " Unicycive does not have to be the purpose of your life, but let me help you to manifest your best version so you can work well, because you are working here, you are spending your time, might as well make it meaningful for you and for the company."
So finding that balance is key and it's a constant challenge. I never take anything for granted. It's a constant to my own team members. How can we make it better? You know, people always say the company grows and we started with the company. We went to IPO with one person. That was just me as an employee, which is not a common thing. I frankly don't know any other company that I've ever seen that went to a straight IPO with one employee.
But that wasn't about me. It was about building the company, building the team. Today, we have 25 or so more, but it's still a small team. And people always ask me, "How do we go from 25 to 50 and it still remain the same." I said "Exactly how we became 5 to 10 to 15, 15 to 20." Because if you keep the culture same, focus same, and you remind people that it's not about who we are individually, but it's what we could be collectively.
And you have it going and you know, something you're passionate about, you will give all that you got and then some more or else there is not worth fighting for because life is hard and building a product developing a technology or running a company is hard. So, either you are a full believer or else you can't do it. I mean, if you can do it, it's going to be miserable on both front. You want to do a good job and you will find it very difficult. So.
[00:43:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. Excellent. Well, and then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
[00:43:36] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: I think when you look back on the challenges that you once thought were unsurmountable, and then you say to yourself, "Huh, that was just a curve in the road, not a roadblock." Then you start to smile because of not because how smart you are, but how much together a team can accomplish. And you start to find, if you're working in a company setting, you start to feel that people start to feel empowered. My team says that you did it. I said, "No, we did it. I just showed you a judicious path, but you did it. I didn't do it. All I said to you is to change your framework."
Because it's a framework. It's a mindset. And I keep saying about mindset because if you come with the idea that " No, I only, I need this much money, this much time, these many resources," you'll find you the subconscious mind keeps on validating those challenges. But if you say, "No, people like us have done it before I can do it, we can do it." And give them the time and space and say, "Look, you don't have to have an answer right now, but please go back and just think about it."
Then they come back with the answer and they themselves surprised. But it truly requires a authenticity, a vulnerability, and being absolutely willing to fall on your face and get up and just fight again. And that's part people don't realize. People think about that every company is a smooth road up, but the companies go through the cycle. It's not when you're going up, it's what happens when you fall down. Can you pick yourself up?
And it's not just with your team, but with your investors too. You know, we thought that we're going to file an NDA in 2020. You know, 2024, we had planned for everything and the whole thing was there, but we ended up in having to run an additional trial and then you have to communicate with integrity through transparency. This is what happened. This is what is there, but we can accomplish that.
So then that all of all that helps you to look back a smile, laugh and say, "Okay, I accomplished that. We can do the next one." And that keeps the growth happening. And at the end of the day, we are not happy because we accomplished small things by doing small effort. Most of us as human beings want to be challenged in the right way and we feel joy in doing hard things that take a lot of efforts and once seemed just impossible to do it.
And the question is, can you do it with your entire team, not just personally? And that's what inspires people. We want to be that company that people want to work for not because they need a job, not because we can take care of their 401k. I mean, those are a wonderful thing and I'm blessed that we can do all of that, because once upon a time, we didn't have any of that. So I don't take it for granted, it is something. But the fact is that what was the mission hasn't changed ever.
And you know, that that is something which is worth pursuing it. And I think if people start to see that they can accomplish that, these challenges are not personal, that they are bound to come. And then they have a support group, you know, we all need somebody other than ourselves and people whom we are surrounded with somebody to hold our hand and say no, you fell down, but it's okay.
You can get up. I think it's that support system, right? The more you can have it, the more different types of people you can relate to and call them friends, mentors, that helps. And I have tons and tons of them because my gosh, I mean, there are days seems like, how would I ever get out of this? As much as you may think that I have all the source of inspiration, but then if somebody else holds your hand, they say, no, you can do it. That is what gets you going to the next step.
[00:47:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, goodness, this has been an amazing conversation, just packed full of incredible, helpful advice, and just very practical down to earth sharing. So thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate everything you're doing to, to make an impact. So thanks again for your time.
[00:47:44] Dr. Shalabh Gupta: Thank you very much. Thank you for hosting me and thank you for your time and interest. Really appreciate it.
[00:47:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. We are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf today to Feeding America, which works to end hunger in the United States by partnering with food banks, food pantries, and local food programs to bring food to people facing hunger. And also they advocate for policies that create long term solutions to hunger. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
[00:48:31] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.
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