The Leading Difference

Kevin Saem | Brand Leader, Zapyrus | Childhood Inspiration, Creating Impact, & Curiosity

Kevin Saem is a brand leader at Zapyrus, a lifelong learner, and a passionate problem solver. In this episode, he shares stories from his early childhood in Cambodia and how that inspired his interest in medtech and healthcare, why he's so passionate about creating impact wherever he goes, and why he places a high value on curiosity. 
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-saem/ | https://welcome.zapyrus.com/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 013 - Kevin Saem
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Kevin Saem. Kevin is a brand leader at Zapyrus, a lifelong learner, and a passionate problem solver. Having lived in Asia, North America and Europe, Kevin is a leader that values diversity and believes that the small differences are what give intrinsic value to an individual. Kevin, thank you so very much for being here. I'm just so excited to have you here and learn all about your background and what you're up to these days.
Kevin Saem: No problem, Lindsey. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. I would love starting off by just sharing a little bit about your background. I know that, even from your bio, you have had such a cool life so far, all sorts of places that you've lived, and I'd just love to hear a little bit about that and maybe what brought you to where you are today.
Kevin Saem: Yeah, absolutely. How far do you wanna go back?
Lindsey Dinneen: Whatever would make sense in terms of inspiring you to do what you're doing now.
Kevin Saem: Yeah, absolutely. When I look back right in my life, I always think of it as like the movie Inception. I don't know, have you, if you've seen Inception?
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that movie, one of my favorites.
Kevin Saem: So it's like a, yeah, so it's like a dream within a dream. When I look back at my life, cuz I grew up in a third world country. I grew up in Cambodia and it's almost like a different life there. So I almost see like a life within a life when I made the transition over to Canada. I was born in Cambodia, lived there for 10 years, lived through the nineties. And during the nineties, Cambodia experienced a couple things. So in the early days in the seventies, eighties, we experienced the Khmer Rouge, the genocide which my parents and my grandparents lived through. And then right outta that, when I was growing up in the nineties, we experienced the HIV/AIDS epidemic, which was a delayed onset from what North Americans experienced in the eighties.
And so because of the whole genocide and internal warfare, the country was in already recovery while being compounded with a healthcare crisis, right? Super chaotic. Hospitals were not a thing at the time. There were like some, and I lived in the Capitol, and just seeing people that you knew, like neighbors or friends and family be affected by this disease. And nobody kind of knew what was going on until the UN stepped in and brought some aid and support through portable kind of diagnostic testing for this disease, which kind of helped brought the spread down and help control the spread of the disease. And seeing that impact of what healthcare technology, especially in the MedTech space, diagnostic specifically, could do to a small population in a third world country like that really stuck with me from the early days. So when I moved to Canada in 2000, started studying here, really gravitated to the STEM field.
So science engineering, was able to put my thinking cap on in that space, so to speak. So I went to university and studied chemistry. I went in with a life science background and then specialized in chemistry and decided to go to grad school and do my PhD in chemistry and infectious diseases specifically for diagnostics and medical devices, for testing of infectious diseases because I had that in the back of my mind growing up in Cambodia and seeing the impact that those technologies could make.
And I'm a firm believer in chasing impact and creating value at every stage of your life. Like within your inner circle, what value you could create before you move on, what long lasting impact that you could create. So from Cambodia to Canada to my graduate days I was fortunate enough to meet a bunch of intelligent people, be taken in by very talented researchers in the space. I did my studies in McMaster University, which has now become, I believe, the most research intensive university in Canada, if I'm not mistaken, a few years back. So I studied under professor Jose Moran-Mirabal and I had a bunch of other professors as mentors, and they were really great. I was able to touch a lot of different topics in research, which is unconventional from a graduate experience. Usually you're narrowed down into kind of one scope, but I was able to start with kind of material science, materials engineering, like making novel, conductive, stretchable, elastic materials. Moved from there to nanotechnology, biosensing, and then eventually closed off my graduate degree in doing some work on premature 3D printing and tissue engineering work to create synthetic scaffolds for testing or biomimicry, which that work has been able to mature over time.
So that's like my graduate experience. So when I was, I would say in the last year of my graduate study, again going back to the impact theme. I wanted to understand, what was the next step after a research paper. Like how do you go beyond just benchtop work into actually creating a product that could affect people's lives on a day-to-day? And I wasn't able to get that just being in research. And so that got me thinking about the startup path going into industry, you know, the typical challenges you come across as you're nearing your graduation, right? What is the next step? Do I pursue a career in academia, become a lifelong researcher, and just stick in that space? Or do I take a step out and look at the rest of the world and see what other cool things people are doing?
So putting on my curiosity cap again. Got a chance to network when I was doing a sabbatical research with my professor at the time, Dr. Jose Moran-Mirabal. He had a sabbatical in the south of France and he took me along. It was really great experience, right? We had a lot of great wine, traveled everywhere. So again, unconventional, I would say, graduate experience. So I was very lucky to have had all those sorts of experiences. And it was like a France/Canada collaborative research internship where we were starting kind of new project in tissue engineering and really novel biomaterials, right? And this was like at the very start of the early days of 3D printing for medical devices. And so, got a chance to meet a bunch of cool people.
And then one professor that sponsored us there started this liquid biopsy startup company out of the institute that we were working in. And so nearing my graduation, I was presented with an opportunity to be a part of that early day kind of startup life or this novel liquid biopsy startup company that was in the south of France. And so, I spent a bit of my time there again, wearing multiple hats, helping raise capital, managing R&D strategy, managing relationships with industry. So I did that for a little bit of time and got to know the medical device system from an OEM's perspective at an early stage and then the pandemic hit and it threw a wrench in everybody's plan, not just my own.
And so at that time, our Prime Minister gave out a signal to all foreign workers to come back home. So I had to come back home and it was another reset. And I was looking at kind of new opportunities in the space and I stumbled upon this local Toronto bootstrap SaaS company. At the time it was called Zymewire and I did a little bit of digging and found that it was bootstrapped by a couple of guys. The CEO, Pete Bastedo, he came from the pharmaceutical side of the business. And then the co-founder Ryan, the CTO, he had a technical background. So I was really fascinated by this kind of bootstrap company model. And I took a look at their site and fell in love with the culture that they represented. And it aligned really closely with the philosophy that I had as well. And so that got me even more interested and took me down a rabbit hole of like, all right, what are they about?
And so, I made the connection between Pete, the CEO, and a good friend of mine that came out of the same graduate program. And I pinged my friend Faheem. I was like, "do you know anything about this guy, Pete? How is he?" And then he gave me nothing but great reviews on Pete. He's a really intelligent guy, really smart, and he's doing cool, exciting things with the company, right? And so, eventually ended up speaking with both Pete and Ryan and they were telling me about their plans for the company and kinda where they wanna go. And given kinda my background in MedTech, they wanted to expand the product offerings beyond Biopharma and into MedTech. And that's how I came about into Zymewire at the time. But now we recently rebranded to Lumerate. And now Zapyrus was born just last year around this time as a premium MedTech business intelligence tool specifically for the MedTech industry. And so now we have that. Now it's real.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my gosh. That is amazing. First of all, your story is incredible. Thank you for sharing all of that, and it's so fascinating to me to learn about how someone's background and often childhood can really shape who they end up becoming. But it's interesting because for a lot of the guests that I've had so far, there's been something that says, " I wanna make a difference in this area." But then their career trajectory and their education has allowed them to sort of weave in and out of all sorts of avenues of pursuing their dreams in very interesting ways. So I just love hearing about that. So thank you so much for sharing and I would love to hear a little bit more about your company and how it helps MedTech companies now.
Kevin Saem: Yeah, absolutely. The industry is made up mainly of these small players. I would say 80, 85% of MedTech companies are small, medium size businesses, and then they eventually get acquired by the big ones, right? Basically, our platform helps to connect MedTech service providers with MedTech OEMs at the right stage and at the right time so that they can be supported to bring their lifesaving technology to market. And as you know, a lot of medical device companies come from maybe a doctor had an idea, right, that there's this unmet need and they need this device to come to market, but they don't have any business background or they don't know how to get device to market. And so there's a lot of mess that goes into the early days that a lot of service providers can't help these companies and get this medical technology to market and actually affect people's lives in a positive way.
And so for us, we wanted to humanize business development. We were seeing a trend where there's all these solutions that would give you lists of companies, lists of contacts, and then a way to just bulk email them or bulk spam them. And with a industry like MedTech and the community is so small, that doesn't really tend to work well, especially because you're talking to founders and CEOs that are passionate people that are looking to bring medical technology to help and enable patients and better their lives. So we wanted to create something that was a tool, yes, to help the salesperson and the marketing team in service provider companies to be able to identify the right companies to help at the right time. But we wanted a way for them to do it where it reflects the industry-wide belief of like, "hey, we're passionate people helping other people and that's our community." And so our tool was designed for that, right? That's what our philosophy is. That's how it was based around. We have this mission to bring humanity into MedTech business development. And we do so through suppliers.
Lindsey Dinneen: Love it. That's awesome. That is a very needed service that y'all provide, so I'm so glad that you are out there doing that work. And thank you for sharing about it because it's great to learn about the various resources that are available.
Kevin Saem: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I'm curious, is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career path for you?
Kevin Saem: That's, that's a very tough question, Lindsey. For me to pick a time point in my life, honestly, I keep thinking back to a theme. I don't know if there's a particular moment, but I think there is a theme where, for me, I'm always looking for a way to create impact whether it's big or small, whether it reaches globally or it reaches my inner circle. That's always been my driving force of how can I do something that would benefit others around me in a positive way, and that would be long lasting? If I was gonna build something, it should be the best thing and it should do good. It's not enough to just do well. I think we should also focus on doing good. And so that's been my primary driver.
And so a particular moment in my life that I remember, this was back in my Cambodia days, from a very young age, I was always interested in building new things. So if I was presented with some sort of toy I would be disengaged really quickly because the toy was already built. I'm just playing with something like a finished product. I gravitated more towards building new toys out of clay, that was more my style. And so that theme just recurred. Like through research I was building out new projects, new process, I was developing new things. In this role as well, bringing a brand to market, you have to build things. And so that I think is in my DNA, that theme of creating impact through building new things.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Well, And I know you've talked quite a bit about the creating impact theme throughout your life, and I just love that. I think that has clearly shown throughout your career and the various different things that you've done. It seems like having that running theme is really helpful because it guides you as you maybe look towards the next thing or how do I go about this project? If your goal is creating impact, then you always have that guiding light and I think that's really valuable. So I'm curious, how has that affected your leadership philosophy, or is that part of the way that you interact with others including in a leadership capacity?
Kevin Saem: Yeah, that's a great question, Lindsey, and I think it, it does, it really does because in a leadership role I'm always looking to create positive, lasting impact as well for the people and for the business that I'm with. So it helps me to separate leadership from management in a way, if that makes sense.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
Kevin Saem: So for me, that helps me to put people at the heart of it all and then it manifests outside of that. So if you're leading a team of people you're constantly thinking and you got your worried hat on of like, "are these people being fulfilled? Is their work enriched? Are they doing well? Am I helping them unlock the next stages of their progression?" That type of stuff lives in my mind when I think about leadership. Essentially empowering people to do great things and helping them achieve their goals. I think that's what it's all about if you're serious about leadership.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Oh, that's a great definition of leadership. Amazing. How do you prioritize your own continued learning and growing as a leader?
Kevin Saem: Yeah. That's also another great question. You're coming with the heavy hitters here. So, I just wanna take a step back. And I think two people that kind of help me understand what good leadership looks like. The first person was my PhD. supervisor professor, Jose Moran-Maribal. He had a way to approach leadership where it's like an extra layer of inclusion that he has in the back of his mind and his ability to help support his students was amazing. I learned passively just through watching. Another person that currently I report to actually, Pete, I respect as a leader and I emulate a lot of my thinking through these key figures and mentors. Throughout my career, I always have at every stage several mentors that I like to learn from, either passively or actively. And so I guess that's helped shape the meaning of what leadership looks like, and I use that to surround myself with those types of people.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so emulating has been a huge component in your own growth as a leader. Do you find that there are other resources that have helped you or continue to help you, or is looking towards those models of great leadership, is that primarily your source?
Kevin Saem: My source is actually in the people that I surround myself with. It's silly to say, but I think throughout my graduate school days I've really finally learned how to learn or how to ask questions the right way. And I guess to summarize that, it's how to think versus what to think. Leading up all the way to graduate school, you're told you know what to think. This is right, this is wrong. And then throughout my graduate school experience, I really understood the mechanisms of how to think.
And for me, my philosophy at continuous learning for leadership is trying to be the dumbest person in the room. It helps to protect me in a sneaky way where if you're the dumbest person in the room, you know there's only one direction, it's up, and you just learn so much. You just absorb everything, you soak everything in like a sponge. I learn things every day from the intelligent people that I have the opportunity to work with. And so yeah, I take that dumbest person in the room approach and ask tons of questions. That's the only way, I think, to really learn. And leadership is a funny thing where it's almost like trial by fire and you have to just go through it. You can read a lot of stuff-- obviously, I do read stuff-- but you kind of have to go through it and experience it and figure it out as you go and continuous process improvement along the way.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. Yep. Great advice. Okay, just for fun, imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach ambassador class on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Kevin Saem: Oh, there's so many bad answers to this and there's very few good answers to this question. I don't know if I am skilled enough to teach a quote unquote masterclass in anything, but if I were to pick one thing to teach, and this is probably another unconventional answer, it's probably the application of curiosity to fuel success in anything that you pursue. I think that's very underrated. As as a trait in people that are successful, I think they're intrinsically curious and they continue to be lifelong learners.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that answer. Yeah I absolutely agree with you. I had the good fortune when I was young, I was very curious and I was asking a lot of questions all the time. And I had an adult one time say to me, " You know, it's so good that you ask questions because then you'll always keep learning, so don't be embarrassed about it. Always keep asking those questions." And I'm so glad that someone thought to acknowledge that and point it out because it helped me retain that curiosity and not be afraid to be, like you said, the dumbest person in a room so that I could keep learning. So I love your advice. Curiosity is underrated and it's hugely important.
Kevin Saem: Yeah, absolutely, and I think there was a drastic contrast when I was going to school in Cambodia and when the country was in recovery, it was very authoritative interaction between students and teachers. It was seen as like the teachers know all the answers and you should just be quiet, right? And just absorb knowledge from this beacon of wisdom, so to speak. And I would get in trouble in class all the time, I would be sent home with notes saying, " your son is just a troublemaker. He is asking too many questions in class. He, he is disruptive." And they don't like challenges to what they know in that kind of culture at the time. I'm sure it's changed a lot now, now that it's more modernized as a country. But when I came here, I was very surprised as to how much encouragement in Canada and in North America as a whole to like question ideas and question what's right and what's wrong. And always be very inquisitive and almost skeptical of what's presented in front of you. And I really appreciate that philosophy over in North America.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, and that's really interesting perspective to have experienced both, so you can contrast and compare. What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world? I think I have a pretty good idea of your answer, but I'd still love to hear it from you.
Kevin Saem: Oh my gosh. I'd love to hear you guess.
Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. I'm gonna guess that it has a lot to do with impact in the various areas, whether it's personal or professional. But I will let you go into detail.
Kevin Saem: You got it. I think you summarize it pretty well. You know, being remembered for having created something or opportunities or memories that has changed the lives of those around me in a positive way, I think that's enough for me. I don't need much more than that.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Absolutely love it. Okay, final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Kevin Saem: Oh, that's a good question also, and it's a good one to end off on. There's one fond memory and like I said, it's like life-ception. It's like a life in a life. When I was living in Cambodia versus here, you had to really mature quickly when you're living in a developed country. As a young child, you'll understand kinda the risks when you take a step outside. There's dangers all around you. You learn to be quite self-aware at an early age. And I just remember there was a relative that came from France to visit the country and they brought a pair of roller skates back. And this was like a size 10 and we're like eight years old. And there's a group of just street kids playing around on the rooftops and stuff cuz we had concrete buildings with flat rooftops and that's where all the kids would hang out.
And there's like about 10 of us and we remember just, we had a pair of roller skates and we were just taking turns using one each, actually, cause we didn't know how to ride roller skates. We're each just taking turns using one roller skate and just having the best time of our lives. And that reminds me of this, I guess, mantra that I have in my mind of " it's not about what you have, it's about who you share it with" and it's like that part of my life, we didn't have much, but we were so happy. We didn't know that there was anything outside of that. And so it's all about perspective, I think, and that's the memory that comes back to me that makes me smile every time. And I don't think anything else matters once you have things like that, that type of experience.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, I love that story that I'm just smiling thinking about it too. Thank you so much for joining us, Kevin. I just really appreciate your perspective and advice and bringing such a powerful background to the industry. I'm so thankful for the work that you do. We are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save The Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational and safe environment. That was the organization that Kevin chose to support. So thank you so much for your time and thank you for all of your great quotable quotes.
Kevin Saem: Quotable. Yeah. No, thank you, Lindsey, for putting all this together. I think what you're doing is incredible. I think you're highlighting the other side of MedTech, right, that is probably less technical, but is just as important. And I think you'd know, as better as I know, that storytelling is a big part of passing on knowledge and sharing with the community. And our community is so small that I think this is gonna really help bring us all together, especially coming outside of a pandemic years. This is a great, refreshing podcast.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that feedback and yeah, that is the hope. It was so fun earlier when you were talking about bringing the humanity into MedTech, I just had to smile 'cause I was like, "there you go." We're very aligned.
Kevin Saem: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh man. Again, thank you so very much. We just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. I know that impact is really important to you, and I know that you're gonna continue to make an impact on the world, so thank you. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.
 
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Lindsey Jardine | FARAPULSE, Inc. | Clinical Trials, Lifelong Learning, & Academia to Industry

Lindsey Jardine is a Senior Clinical Research Associate at FARAPULSE, Inc. In this episode, she discusses her love of designing and organizing clinical trials, her zest for life and continual learning, and the very human moment in her career when she realized she had to make a major change from academia to industry. 
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-jardine-5a0985103/
Charity supported: Opportunity International 
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 012 - Lindsey Jardine
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Lindsey Jardine. Lindsey is a clinical trial manager renowned for her exceptional leadership and groundbreaking achievements in the healthcare industry. With a passion for advancing medical technologies, Lindsey has successfully managed two breakthrough innovations: one at Farapulse Inc. which was acquired by Boston Scientific in 2022, and another at Shockwave Medical that went public in 2021. Her entrepreneurial spirit has also led her to contribute to the success of Cala Health, now commercially available. Lindsey has earned a reputation for excellence in leadership throughout her career in clinical research. Lindsey, thank you so very much for being here. I am so excited to have you as my guest and welcome.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, super excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. I would love if you don't mind starting out by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got to where you are.
Lindsey Jardine: Oh yeah. I work in medical device. I work in clinical research. So the story of me, it's a long and twisty one, but I'm currently the Clinical Trial Manager at Boston Scientific in the electrophysiology division. So in electrophysiology, you kinda split in between cardio and neuro. So I've worked in both cardio and neuro. But yeah, just closed out my study for a atherectomyectomy device.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's great. I'd love to hear how you either intentionally explored the medical device industry or whether you meandered in, either way I just love hearing the background of what got you to where you are.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. So my background was originally in biochemistry. So I went to school to get a degree in biochemistry, and in biochem there's only basically two ways that you can go in any kind of industry. So you can go into academia and do a PhD, or you can go into medicine. So in a PhD you'd usually go into genetics, which is a fascinating topic. Genetics is super fun. So I did work in a genetics lab after I graduated college, but with the intention of going into medicine, so while I was working in the lab doing a lot of like really interesting genetics work at UCSD, I was also studying for my MCAT, which did well, got into med school. While I was filling out the financial paperwork, I looked around and I was like, "everyone in medicine is miserable." And then I had this moment where I was just like, "you know what? I don't know if this is what I want."
Because in medicine you have this grind and it's like the glory is in the grind. And you sacrifice, and then eventually maybe you'll save some lives and your time on this earth will be worth it. But that seemed like a really bad idea because I love being outside. I love my family. I love my friends. I wanted to love life in a very profound way, so I decided that sacrificing everything for maybe some kind of hope that I'm going to further the human race was probably not best served in a hospital.
So I got very lost for a long time. Continued working in the lab doing genetics. I was like, "okay, maybe I can help figure out some cures. Maybe I can figure out some other way to help humanity at not costing me my life." So started working in research, decided that I was not a lab person, not because I don't love the problem solving of the lab, it's just more of a very isolated not as personal. So, I was at lunch one day and somebody who works in clinical research at UCSD, she's "oh, why don't you come into our office and our clinic and figure out what clinical research is all about?"
I was like, "Oh. That's a thing. Clinical research, I don't even know what that means." That's not really a degree that you can have in undergrad. It's not really something that you really hear about. At least when I was in college or immediately after post college, that's not really something that was, I'd never even heard of before. So, I started working at the Chelie Eye Institute, which was also like, not to get into too many too much detail, but a lot of genetic abnormalities present in the eye. So there was like a really strong genetic component. But also I got to work with patients in clinic, which was really fun. So on the hospital side, you get to implement a lot of other people's research and you get to interact with people and you get to see the benefits of research on a daily basis.
So I fell in love with clinical research. Then eventually I was recruited to work on a project at Stanford. So then I moved from San Diego up to the Bay area, started working on the baseline project at Stanford, which was a collaboration with Google and Duke University. So, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of logistics that project was logistically super complicated, which was fun. I love that. That one was trying to figure out how all the puzzle pieces fit together and then also getting a really good deep dive into like data science. So that was my first like foray into like data science which was really fun. And then also I got to see what industry is like.
So from up until that point, my entire career was in academia. And I did like academia, but it was definitely still that grind that no matter what you do, it's never really gonna matter. You might serve somebody at some point in some time and then your life's gonna be worth it. It's like this noble sacrifice basically. But so then I got to see what industry is like and how innovative it can be, and like that really tickled my creative process and that was something that I really fell in love with was being able to move really fast, help a whole lot of people, and be creative in the process. And you get to put together all these like logistics puzzle pieces and understanding the science and really deep diving into something that gets noticed and that helps people in the immediate.
So that's that juxtaposition with academia and industry is-- academia you grind forever and then maybe someday you'll get a card saying, "You saved my life 10 years ago and my grandkids are now amazing people and it never would've been possible without you." But in industry you get that immediate kind of reward, like you see it come to market and you see your project. All that sacrifice, all that immediate hard work that you put into something, you see it come to market. And it's really fun and it's really great and you get to see it from not that 10,000 foot view where we're all contributing in the greater scheme of things. It's-- you get to see it, like you run a study of 20 people and you see the immediate effect of those 20 people. So that's why I chose MedTech specifically.
But yeah, so, after Stanford, I moved into the startup space. I started working at Cala Health which was neuro. So, that was my first transition into the electrophysiology, neuro cardio kind of space. For anybody listening who doesn't understand what electrophysiology is, it's basically understanding the way electricity governs your body, which is a really fascinating topic to me 'cause I'm a physics nerd. I love physics. So, being able to take all of my physics information, all my physics, like chemistry background, and then getting to split that time between the brain and the nervous system and, and the heart was really interesting. So that's when I fell in love with the heart and the brain.
But yeah, so Cala Health is doing really great. They're commercialized. I was part of the team that put together some of their early feasibility trials and also their pivotal trial, which was a lot of fun to work with them. And then almost immediately after that they got commercialization and being able to understand and talk through or hear the leadership team strategize for something like that was really interesting. And that was a whole new thing that I had never even seen before. Like, how do you bring a product to market and what capacity, who are we gonna reach? Who is this best suited for? So listening to all that strategy was really fun.
And then after that I worked for a company called Shockwave Medical, which is an atherectomyectomy device. So that's a cardio. So electrophysiology in the heart space. And that was a super fun, that was a breakthrough IDE/PMA trial. So it was huge. It was global. It was a lot of moving pieces that, all those logistics that I loved with the electrophysiology portion of it and I got to work with great leaders, and that's one thing that I find like really consistent about when I'm choosing my next job or my next project. I look at the leadership team and I get to see how they approach problems and that is how I make my decision of who I wanna work for, is if you approach problems in a methodical and innovative way, I love seeing that. I love being inspired by that. Those are the kind of leaders that I look up to is how well they approach problems in their thought process and their ability to innovate in a space that's either new or has been done a thousand times, either one.
But yeah, so worked at Shockwave, we were able to go IPO, the company went public and then we closed our trial. We started moving into the post-market trials, and I just still have that adrenaline high from the breakthrough study. We can get into this a little bit later, but those breakthrough PMA/ IDE trials are huge and they are a lot of logistics. It's very intense. It's a lot. It's a lot. And it's a grind, but in a fun way. For me, I love this. I love. So yeah, the thing that attracted me to medicine also attracted me to the breakthrough kinda trials, those breakthrough pivotal trials.
And so after that I was like, " I need another one." So I started looking. I got approached by a recruiter and this recruiter sent me a bunch of stuff and then I saw the Farapulse offer come across saying that they were looking for a clinical trial manager for their pivotal breakthrough trial. And I was like "That company looks like it's gonna change the game." Same thing with Shockwave, also changed the game. So I got on board with Farapulse which is another cardio EP, electrophysiology technology. And it was magic from the very beginning. And we just closed our trial-- which that trial had its own complications. It was a blinded trial and all the sites and like trying to figure out how to do all that through Covid, through all the things. So that's how I got to where I am now. Eventually, last year we were acquired by Boston Scientific. So, yeah, that's the very short background of how I got here, and now moving on to my next adventure, which is gonna be back in the neuro space.
Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Oh, that's so exciting. That is something that kept resonating with me as you were talking, was just your enthusiasm and passion for this particular industry and for your role within it. And it's just so much fun to hear how all of your different interests and passions are coming together in a way that, it sounds like just keeps you constantly engaged with the process, and you know that you're making a difference as you get to see it right in front of you. It sounds fabulous.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, it is. It is. I really do enjoy my job, even like the daily logistics, and not every day is magic. Some days are just the grind, but then two days later or a week later, you're back inspired. So I do love what I do and I love the pace in which the trials that I do sign up for go and it's really fun.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, in your role as manager for someone who doesn't know what a typical clinical trial might look like. How does it work? Is there like a typical process or it, I'm sure it varies per trial, but I'd just love to hear a little bit more about how you go about even organizing it to start with.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. Oh man. Oh, that's a good question. So there is, the FDA does have a reasonably prescribed way to put together a trial. So, when you're working in the startup space, what happens is you have somebody with a great idea. That person usually doesn't know how to build it. They usually don't know how to commercialize it. They usually don't know how to run a trial with it. So they have this great idea and then they go about trying to build this leadership team. So you'll try and find a CEO, you're gonna find funding, you're gonna start like prototyping some stuff. And then once you get to a point where you think that what you're building is viable, you bring on some engineers that work in the space, that are professional, they work in the startup space, kind of the same way I work in clinical trials. There's definitely people who work specifically in startups to engineer and build stuff like this.
So you bring on an engineering team, they build it, they test it, and then once they've gotten it to a point where, It's a viable product in a lab they usually bring on somebody like me, clinical trial manager, preclinical trial expert to start testing it in larger animals before we go into humans. So then you start putting together your preclinical data. And a lot of the times that's where somebody like me would jump in as a clinical trial manager or a clinical trial expert in some way. So it's usually not necessarily a clinical trial manager, but a clinical trial expert. In the service space, it's a fluid term. You could call 'em clinical trial specialist, whatever you want, but again, it's just somebody who has the expertise of bringing something from an engineering perspective all the way through market.
So, in that process, I get to build the protocols. I get to ask the questions. I get to set up the preclinical work so I can inform my clinical work, if that makes sense. So when we're putting together the preclinical work, you're putting together the studies, you're understanding the device, you're understanding the product, you're understanding the demographic that you're going after. So, the disease space basically. So that's one thing about clinical research, as somebody who specializes in clinical research, is the disease space changes with the technology. So I've worked in electrophysiology and neurology, so, atherectomy, ablation, therapy, neuromodulation.
So the disease space changes, the technologies change, but how you think about your job and how you approach things should be consistent, so it's that innovation. I think that's really what the difference is when you go into academia is you focus on as a very specific disease space and you focus on one very specific and you get into the minutiae of one specific thing. So if you're going into medicine you specialize, you subspecialize, and then you really understand that one protein of that one gene.
So, coming back to where I am now, I don't necessarily understand one specific disease, I have the opportunity and the privilege to work with a lot of different disease spaces. There's a lot of different products and I get to understand and innovate and build my knowledge as I move through my career. So I've worked in a lot of different types of medical devices and it's really fun being able to learn from the engineers and learn from the physicians, and learn from all of my colleagues as I go through my career. So I'm building my knowledge as I go along. So my specialty is building clinical trials. So to answer your question, there is a reasonably prescribed way to do it, but that prescribed way is driven a lot by your logic.
The FDA is your partner in all of this. So they have regulations that you have to follow. So as you're going through and you're building this process, as you're building these clinical trials, you have to make sure that you're adhering to all of the regulations that the FDA has set forward. So that's everything from building your internal standard operating procedures at your company to making sure that all of your regulatory documentation is above board and your operations, all of that stuff. So the FDA's your partner through all of this and making sure you're putting together a clinical plan and/ or protocol that is safe, effective, gets at the correct end points, targets the right demographic of people, disease state, and making sure it's safe and effective as you go through all of these steps from preclinical all the way through clinical.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And that actually brings up a question that I had, and that is, have there been any moments that have been scary in clinical trials because part of it from my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you are trying to establish, not only does this product work as intended, but is it safe? And of course you hope you've done enough pre-work with that to have a solid idea. But are there moments where you've just been like, whew, that did not go as planned?
Lindsey Jardine: We have a term for that. It's unexpected adverse events or unexpected device malfunctions, but that's a good question. So it's yes and no. To be clear: one, you want to make sure that you study your device in the preclinical setting as thoroughly as possible. So that's your engineers. And your engineers are also going to the FDA for pre-submission and the FDA's double checking everything. But with that being said, that's why we do so much diligent testing before we put it in humans in order to make sure that once we get into clinical trials, it is absolutely safe.
So, protocols, they test out for years after a procedure. But to make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row, all of our T's crossed and I's dotted, we're not gonna hurt anybody. I've never been a part of a product that I was ever afraid was going to hurt somebody. That being said, there are definitely times in lab where just " Oh, that happened." So there's definitely times where you're just like, "Oh my God, how did that happen?" In a lab setting, but never in a clinical setting to be very clear, I've never been a part of that. So in a startup, you'll have like your engineering on one side of the building and your operations or something on the other side. But when you're going through user testing or trying to design user interface, the engineering department will bring somebody in you're like, "Hey. I'm gonna teach you how to use this. Let me know if this makes sense to somebody who doesn't build it." So, I've definitely been in a few situations where I was using something and something unexpected happened. I was like, "What was that?" They're like, "Oh, we found a bug!"
So, stuff like that definitely happens, but I've never been clinically in fear of any of the devices that I've worked with. But I also work with really amazing engineers and really amazing physicians. So that's another really great part about what I get to do is I get to collaborate with physicians who do this for a living, who do that very specific, very granular work in one very specific disease state. So they also inform and help, and it's ultimately their responsibility to make sure that whatever they're using on their patients is safe and effective. So that's why we work really closely with all of our physician surgeon collaborators to make sure that we aren't doing anything that could hurt anybody, cuz that's obviously, that's the opposite of what we wanna do. So yeah, that's another thing that I love about my job is the collaboration.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it does seem the more that you've talked, the more I can sense how much you enjoy working with people and having that collaboration, that problem solving, we're in this together trying to make a difference. That's really cool. Another thing that you brought up that I really liked and something that I tend to ask my guests is about how you as a leader in the industry continue to prioritize your own learning and growing. And it sounds, because you get to work on so many different devices and with so many different indications, you really have this opportunity. It's almost built into your job. And then it just sounds like you as an individual are just a really curious person. So you're probably getting to learn and grow all the time. There's no stopping it.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, that's true. It's true. There is no stopping it. Honestly, that's why I chose the space that I'm in is I love learning. It's one of my favorite things in life is just expanding my knowledge base, learning fun new things. And even in my personal life, I'm always going out exploring, doing new things like learning and absorbing the world that we live in. And that's one consistent theme of my life is I just want to love the life that we have right now. And so learning and exploring and doing and driving yourself to, to a point of excellence is something that I truly enjoy doing. But yes, that learning is my job. And if I ever stop learning, I think that I would stop being good at my job. And hopefully by that time I can retire and learn something new, learn something that I haven't learned or even attempted to learn before. So, to answer your question, learning is definitively what I get paid to do.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. I love that. That is fantastic. Yeah. So is there a particular moment during your career that stands out to you as kind of a defining moment of "Yes, this is the right industry for me." Just confirmation that you really chose and that it was fulfilling some of those deep desires that you've had.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. That's a really good question. I can't say that there was ever one like lightning moment that told me that I was on the right path, but I do recall one specific moment where I knew I was on the wrong one. I think that the consistent feedback that I get throughout my career now is a continuing affirmation that I've chosen the right path and the fact that my personal happiness gets more-- like I, I gain more and more happiness with every passing day of my job. Not to say that you have to be happy every single day. I think that there is definitely something to be said with the highs and the lows in a moderated way, not the extreme highs and lows. But I consistently reaffirmed that I made the right decision.
But I remember probably the lowest point of my career that I had to take a step back and say, "This is not okay for me." I was working at that, the baseline project, and a lot of my mentors would call me probably more of a racehorse kind of personality, where I want to do stuff, I wanna improve, I wanna run it at full speed. And working on a project that was that logistically complicated with that many people and that many things, it was really fun. But, in the academic space, slow and the hierarchy, and it was definitely not my my favorite place because I remember there was this one instance where we had this intern and I was helping him and he and I were collaborating on a project and I was like, "Okay, this is how I'm gonna put all this stuff together."
And I have, like I'm known for my spreadsheets. I have this 80 tab spreadsheet and we're putting all together and we're putting all these formulas together. And he was helping me and it got to a point where I was like, "Man, I am super proud of this." I was really excited that I got to learn something about putting all of this stuff together. And I got to teach it as I was learning it. And I did it and then I got to teach it and then I got to see him like do some stuff and he felt very rewarded by it. And I felt very rewarded by that too. So that particular project had lots of different principal investigators. So we had four different principal investigators that I can remember.
And so we're in a room of 30 people. All of them are my superiors and obviously his superiors. But I'd found out that he had taken my work and he had presented it to my boss's boss as his own. And I had no idea that this was happening. And so I'm sitting in this meeting and he's presenting my work and you can't really stand up and be like, "Hey, get outta here, that's mine. I taught you that." And I was just fuming in this meeting. And there's just so much bureaucracy in that context that even if I were to say something, it would've fallen on deaf ears. And I did say something to my supervisor and they're like "Sorry, it's for the greater good." So, oh no, and I was just furious. And so I talked to him after and I was like, "Hey, you just put your name on my work." And he's, " I've changed the color scheme." And I was like, "Did you now? That's so cute."
But there was like, there was no repercussion. There was no anything. So I probably did an immature thing and just stopped talking to him. And he didn't take that very, he was an intern. It's fine, but so I'm just like, I'm not working with you anymore. I can't trust you. So he brought me flowers and he put them on my desk and I threw them. And that was brought like, but I remember like taking these flowers and throwing 'em at a wall and I was like, "This is a bad spot. I should not be here. I'm setting myself up for failure." So, that's when I decided that I needed to leave.
So I moved into the private industry, which was much more intimate. Everybody saw everybody else's work. Everybody knew, everyone was all striving towards the same thing, and it was never an ego trip for anybody, if that makes sense. And there's always that greater good feeling like we're all trying towards the greater good, but you personally are not sacrificing for somebody else's glory. And that's the thing that really got me about academia and that kind of " grind until you die" space. I was like, but. I did that. I feel good about that. Not that person gets to present my work and they get to feel good about it. So, to answer your not question. That was the moment where I knew I was in the wrong place.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. But those moments are just as important cuz they're teaching you what doesn't work and what does not align with who you want to be or, or how you wanna show up in the world. So I think actually, I really appreciate you sharing that story in that very just sort of human moment because I think it's so important to be honest about those kinds of moments that also are exactly what you said, " this is not the right path for me." And then it sounds because of that experience, you were able to go, okay. It's not like I have to get rid of the entire industry or anything like that. It was just, this isn't the right place for me and I'll find the right place for me. And I think that's really important too. So. Yeah.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. And I do get reaffirmed by my job every day, and I love that. So it wasn't some shock, like lightning bolt moment, like this is the one. It was a slow burn that keeps burning brighter over time for me.
Lindsey Dinneen: And I love that too, because how wonderful is that? It's not just this one flash of inspiration, which could be the catalyst to continue on the path and do something great and whatnot. But I love that you're in a position now where you can just be constantly, maybe in very tiny little ways, but just constantly reaffirming this is right. And that's special. That's really cool.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah. That is special. It is. And being invited on a podcast like this, I'm like, "When did this happen? When did I become the leader?" Like yesterday I was throwing flowers at people in a violent way. And all of a sudden I've been getting interviewed for a leadership podcast. Yeah, there's definitely been some significant changes that, all of a sudden, you turn around and you're like, I am the person that I wanna be. I did get here. This is amazing.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I worked hard for this and it is paying off. And yeah, I can change and grow. That's great. That's fantastic.
Lindsey Jardine: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is very special. Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: Just for fun, I'm gonna take the interview in a slightly different direction, but imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Lindsey Jardine: Oh man, that is another really good question. You're making me think. I like it. I would say if I could teach a masterclass in anything, it would be confidence. When I was sitting there watching my work that I've been, the project that I've been working on for months, being presented by somebody else, and then my reaction to it, that was a deep feeling of insecurity. And I think building confidence is a very important thing and building the appropriate confidence is another very important thing. I mean, for many years I was a "fake it till you make it" person. But having all of that insecurity being presented and then having somebody else take credit for my work, and then everybody else saying " So what, who are you?" If I had more confidence in myself, I would've reacted differently. And if I would've had more confidence in my ability to figure out problems, I would have not put myself in that position. I would have figured out how to get out earlier or figured out that "grind until you die" was not the right path.
So if I could build a masterclass, if I could help people understand, knowing their own personalities and finding that confidence in themselves. And I think that is an invaluable skill in any industry is not that you don't have to be the person up on stage presenting the project. You can have your own confidence in building something and saying " that's mine" and owning it as opposed to having that insecurity and exploding all over everybody.
So I would say that, yeah, I think that is definitely something that we are facing in a society that is troubling to me is the we're gonna go meta completely away from my specific story, but I see so many people with anxiety, I see so many people with imposter syndrome. So many people that even like Instagram, all these like social media feeds, it feels like a very deep-seated insecurity. And I dislike that. I dislike how we have to look a certain way or have to act a certain way or like all of these different movements to make people be seen and understood. And if we could collaborate and if we could speak with confidence, if we could speak with understanding that everyone here has some issues and if we could speak confidently about what we know, if we could be confident about who we are, then I think we could solve a lot of problems and not erupt into this, this really controversial space.
So I know that having confidence also means having compassion and having that ability to reach out and say, "these are my flaws, but that doesn't mean I'm incompetent. I'm confident in myself. I'm confident that I know that this is the space that I don't know anything about and I need somebody to teach me, and that has so much confidence." And that's another thing that I've learned over my years of working in clinical research is there is no space, there's no time to fake information. You have to learn information and you have to have the confidence to say that, "I don't know this. I need to learn it." No matter how stupid that question is. "I need to learn that piece of information so I can do my job confidently and I can be confident in the product that I'm putting forward." So, if I was going to teach a masterclass, I choose confidence.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That was really insightful too. I appreciate your perspective on confidence and, like you alluded to, appropriate confidence too with empathy, with compassion, with collaboration.
Lindsey Jardine: You can't possibly know everything. But somebody else knows something. And if they don't know it, you have to have the confidence to be able to figure it out.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And that curiosity is a strength. Because you don't know everything. Like you are highly specialized in, in many different ways, and you have this fantastic capacity to learn, but it doesn't mean that you're necessarily an expert in every single thing you come across and so having the confidence to be curious and to say "I, I didn't know this. Tell me more." That's fantastic.
Lindsey Jardine: That's truly it. That really is the curiosity and the confidence . You said it really beautifully. Just tell me more. Teach me everything and then we can change the world together and we can be better people to each other.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love it. What is one thing that you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Lindsey Jardine: Oh my goodness. That's a really good one. The one thing that I wanna be remembered for I would say, my confidence. Yeah, I would say my confidence. And that's my all-encompassing confidence, compassion, and curiosity, because I roll all of those things up into confidence, if that makes sense. So my confidence doesn't come from perceived understanding of myself, but it comes from the feedback that I get on a daily basis from my family, my friends. My confidence is something that I hope inspires and I hope that people remember me for the type of confidence that I have. How about that? The type of confidence.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I like it. Awesome. Okay, final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Lindsey Jardine: Oh, man. Okay. The one thing that makes me smile. I would say, life. That's not too tacky. Yeah. Life makes me smile. I am continuously impressed by the world around me. And that comes with all of the changes that life brings, and it's not always pretty. It's not always great. I've definitely had some times where I didn't wanna do it anymore, and I want to encourage anybody who's listening, who does not have that passion for life to just wait cuz it does get better. Because I, I threw flowers at people, and not in a fun way, in a very violent way. There's definitely times where I was not happy or impressed with life and I didn't wanna do it anymore, and I just I didn't think the next thing was gonna be any better than the last. But I can honestly say right now, life makes me happy, not on a daily basis because I think it's a misconception that you have to be happy every single day because you don't really understand happiness and you don't really understand what life has a capacity for until you know what the bad looks like.
So having bad times is just as important as having good times and understanding that the next piece of your life has the potential to be the best, has potential to be better than anything you've been through so far. But it makes me smile every day knowing that I get to keep doing this in this space and time that we're in right now. And in the world right now, there's turmoil everywhere, but I am very encouraged about life and it makes me happy because I get to see how hard everybody works. I get to see that we are going through something very profound and I'm very confident in the future. And life makes me smile.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. That's the first time anyone has said that, so I love it. Beautiful answer.
Lindsey Jardine: Thanks. It's kinda meta, but that's the one thing, yeah I don't know. Boyfriends, girlfriends, family, the sunshine. All of it's nice. All of it's good. Life makes me smile even when it's making me cry. It's the pain and the struggle and the future that, that just inspires me. And I love that and that makes me happy.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Lindsey, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. I just really appreciate you taking the time to join me today. We are really honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time to Opportunity International, which designs, delivers and scales innovative financial solutions that helps families living in extreme poverty build sustainable livelihoods and access quality education for their children. So thank you for choosing that organization to support, and seriously, thanks again for your time. I just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. I love the fact that you have such a passion for life and for your work, and I know what you're doing makes a difference, so thank you.
Lindsey Jardine: Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on. This was a lot of fun. All your questions were so good. I loved it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Glad to hear that.
Lindsey Jardine: Thank you for doing this, for doing you. It's very inspiring.
Lindsey Dinneen: Appreciate that. I appreciate that. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.B5IkdlvEu8YlwXbE9H3a

Miguel Adao | Voler Systems | Business Development, Managing vs. Leading, & Having a ”North Star”

Miguel Adao is a passionate leader in the medical devices, internet of things and consumer wearable spaces, and serves as the Senior Vice President of Sales & Marketing for Voler Systems. In this episode, he discusses how living in nine countries and traveling to over 65 has impacted his life, the difference between managing and leading people, and the importance of having a "North Star" to guide your decisions and actions.
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/migueladao/ | https://www.volersystems.com/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 011 - Miguel Adao
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Miguel Adao. Miguel is a passionate leader in the medical devices, internet of things and consumer wearable spaces, and works for Voler Systems. Miguel, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to chat with you.
Miguel Adao: Yeah, Lindsey, thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to our chat as well.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, I was wondering if you don't mind starting by just telling us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this industry.
Miguel Adao: Sure. Yeah. Oh my, where do I start? It's been an interesting ride. I've lived in nine countries. I was born and raised in Portugal, in Lisbon. Went to high school in Rome, Italy, and then I lived in Paris, France, in London, England, in Munich, Germany. Spent many years in Rio and Sao Paulo in Brazil. Lived in Buenos Airs in Argentina. I went to college in Florida and grad school in Ohio and doctorate school in New York. And I've worked for some fantastic companies. I worked for Proctor and Gamble and Pepsi, and Hewlett Packard and Petco, the retailer, and Cigna Healthcare. That was my first kind of exposure to the healthcare side in a way.
And now I live in San Diego. I'm married to Lindy. She's British and we have two teenagers. Olivia's 15 and Nico is 13. And I joined this company called Voler Systems almost a year ago in May of 2022 and we focus on medical devices. We help healthcare and medical and wearable and IOT companies develop and design their prototypes and their devices. And I just love where I am in my career at this point in my personal life with with my family and geographically. We love San Diego. So yeah it's been a very interesting journey, indeed.
To your second question, the whole medical healthcare side obviously touches all of us personally, right? We have parents and relatives who get older and unfortunately sometimes sicker. So it touches us on the personal side. I lost my father years ago due to a health condition. So, on that personal side, I have obviously strong affinity to this industry and to this space cuz I want to make the world better. And it's almost a cliche, but I also wanna help people live longer and healthier lives. And then on the professional side, I'm trying to think. I've worked so closely with healthcare and medical devices and pharmaceutical companies through the years. When I was at Hewlett Packard for 12 years, I worked for a company called VMware as well. I was with Cigna Healthcare Insurance for three years, and now at Voler Systems, 80% of our business is around medical devices and medical wearable devices as well, not just the FDA classes one, two, and three. So not just on the scan, like a wearable watch or ring or a skin patch. But also other types of devices that actually go inside the body, like a stent or a catheter or perhaps devices that are used in robotical arms for surgery, et cetera. So I'm very close to the medical device world and the MedTech Industry as the Head of Sales and Marketing here at Voler. And yeah, from a personal side, I'm very passionate about this industry as well.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well first of all, your background is so cool, and I love that you've lived in so many diverse places. I, I have to ask, is there a favorite?
Miguel Adao: I get that question all the time and my, my kind of cheesy answer-- my wife thinks this is so cheesy, Lindsey-- I love the most the place where I am currently.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh. Oh, that's great.
Miguel Adao: I always say that. I always try to at least, I don't always succeed, but I try to live in the here and now, so I try to enjoy the most the place where I am currently. But certainly looking back, I'm very biased to Portugal. I love going back. I go back twice a year to visit my mom and my friends and family. In fact, I told you before the recording, I'm going to Portugal next week to visit my mom for a big 80th birthday. I'm so excited about that. So I always like going back to Portugal, but my favorite country in the world is by far Italy. Both because of course, historically and culturally, and in terms of beauty and architecture and food and fashion, it's astounding. But also just because I lived there from the ages of 14 to 18, went to an American high school in Rome, and those are formative years. That's when you start to become an adult and you start to really define who you're gonna be and, and who I am today is in large part because of that time in, in Italy. So I absolutely love my time there and I love living in California now.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love that perspective. I think that's a great way to go about life and just enjoy where you are in the moment and I guess also take the good from the various other places you've gotten to experience along the way as well. So I love that. But I agree with you that Europe definitely has some particular charms.
Miguel Adao: For sure, as does the US, as does Asia.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, as everywhere does.
Miguel Adao: But it's interesting. Yeah, this whole thing, I've been talking a lot with my wife about this as well. She's a life coach and it's very interesting how, isn't it true? Isn't it just so absolutely true that we in our lives spend most of our time revisiting the past with regrets or anger or sadness or whatever. Or pre-living the future with anxiety and doubt and insecurities. We're never in the moment. Right? I've been talking about this with my teenage children as well. We're always worried about what's going to happen next and sad or regretful or upset about something happened in the past and I think that's just something I've been working on myself and it's been an interesting topic for my family as well.
If you can live in the here and now, just enjoy this moment and just learn from this moment-- don't have to enjoy it, not everything is joy in life and thank God, because you need to have a balance. But it's an interesting challenge that I'm presenting to myself, and I'm using this podcast on industry with you, Lindsey, to remind myself, just enjoy this moment, enjoy this podcast and nothing else matters. Enjoy this podcast right now.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. I love that perspective. Well, and that actually brings up an interesting thought. So, you know, as you were talking about that I absolutely agree with you, but what's interesting is in the medtech industry specifically, there's of course such an emphasis on innovation and it is partially to either solve past dilemmas or perhaps anticipate future ones. So, how do you think about that in terms of your role of sales and marketing for Voler? How are you able to stay present and grateful for the here and the now, but also think about it in terms of the industry, which sort of naturally has to be both problem solving and problem anticipating?
Miguel Adao: That is such an interesting way to look at it. Yeah. Let me think about that for a second. I really like that. And I guess it could apply to most themes in our personal family or professional lives, right? You gotta learn from your past, obviously. You gotta just not repeat the same mistakes of the past. I think that's a definition of insanity, right? So you wanna learn from that. And obviously you are looking to the future. We all want in the medtech industry to cure cancer, right? And obviously you wanna have a future goal and you want to learn from the past experiences, failures and successes, and certainly I'm a marketer before being a business development guy.
Really, my entire career was in marketing. And marketing is nothing more than storytelling. It's about basically bringing folks along with you on a journey so that they can find what you're presenting or delivering or selling impactful and beneficial and insightful. And so as a storyteller, whether we're storytelling from a brand perspective, from a digital podcast, a program or whether we're talking to a potential customer or existing customer, you wanna be able to tell that story and to be able to articulate that vision of how exactly your organization will help them accomplish that future goal. Learning from the past experiences, but we're doing it today, right?
So, the present in a way is the bridge between the past and the future. Right? And so in my day-to-day, although I haven't really thought about this in this light, but your question kind of makes me think about it-- both from a business development and from a marketing standpoint, what we wanna do is help our organizations or partners or customers essentially help their end users, right, i.e. either consumers or their patients with better outcomes and so what does that better outcome mean? It means curing a disease or it means extending the life of someone or resolving a medical problem of sorts.
And so from my company's perspective, If our engineering prowess can help a medtech company develop a device and launch and improve a device that will make people's lives better, healthier, and longer, then that's it. What else is there that more aspirational than to help people live a better life. I don't think there's any other industry that can come close to the medical and the MedTech industry in terms of making the planet and the inhabitants of the planet better.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great answer to that question. And I think that like you said, it's just such a unique industry in that way. And so it, it definitely brings up different considerations perhaps than other jobs or careers. Okay. Well, is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career path for you?
Miguel Adao: Yeah, certainly as family members have become ill or even lost their life because of medical conditions that certainly raised my awareness as I was growing up and becoming more and more aware of my mortality and others, the people I love and their mortality and their lives. So certainly the fact that I've been touched as perhaps have all of your listeners and, and folks that we know been touched by illness and by medical conditions, if not ourselves, and by those we love. That always was in the back of my mind. And although I've worked in soft drinks and hair care, when I was with Procter and Gamble, I worked with Pantene and Head & Shoulders, and that's not saving lives necessarily. It's making you, I guess, feel better about yourself And that's also important for mental health, et cetera.
But really throughout my career, as I got exposed, as I said with Hewlett Packard, a lot of engagement with hospitals and medical groups in England, I worked with HP in the UK and also in Germany, and that was my first exposure and it was, it's just so, what's the word I'm looking for? Empowering and rewarding. That's it. It's so rewarding to work with a company with a customer and providing a solution, a technical solution or whatever, when you know that solution is going to make people's lives healthier and longer and better. More, more than just, I don't know, build a better golf club which is important too, certainly if you're a golfer. But my exposure at HP to hospital groups, medical organizations was the first time where I really got this personal satisfaction of seeing that what we're doing with our HP computers and printers and devices was actually helping the hospitals and the surgeons and the nurses and the practitioners make things better for their patients.
And so when I was approached by a head hunter last year to join this company that is focused on MedTech and medical device development, Voler Systems, I met the founder and the president, still my boss, Walt MacLay, and we just hit it off and I wake up in the morning, the alarm goes off at six, and I'm excited because I feel like, "okay, we're gonna work not on a chip or a sensor or we're not gonna work on a wireless connection or power management solution. We are working on something that will make somebody's mom, daughter, sister, friend, live longer and live better." And so, that makes me want to get up and makes me want to put in another good day of work. And approach it with a lot of passion.
If I may say this, Lindsey, it's an analogy I always like to say also when I'm talking to new employees who join my team or others, there's this old story of the king visiting these folks, brick layers putting bricks down on this construction. And the king asks the brick layer, "what are you doing?" "Oh, I'm just laying my bricks." Day after day for the last 40 years, and I'll lay my bricks. And then the king asks the second brick layer, "oh, I'm building dreams. I'm helping to build cathedrals and visions that will last generations long after I'm gone." And it's like if you have that vision, that what you're doing is more than just a stupid little brick, then your contribution is so much bigger than that, and therefore your passion about it will be commensurate to your vision of what your contribution is.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. I also love that story. Thank you for sharing that. I think I'm in a similar situation in that I'm also in marketing and being able to be in this industry is one of the coolest things I've ever gotten to do because it is so impactful. And I agree with you. You know, you wake up in the morning and go " it's really not a cliche to say I am a part, maybe a small part, but I am playing a part in hopefully helping someone live a better, healthier, longer life. And my role is letting people know about what we do." And it's not engineering itself, but I do play a small role and that's really cool.
Miguel Adao: Yeah, and it's not so small. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things, it's not so small a role.
Lindsey Dinneen: There you go. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, I know your career has been really eclectic. Essentially, you've gotten to work in a lot of different industries and for different companies, and I would imagine that along the way you've picked up some good sort of leadership tips and tricks. Do you mind sharing your perspective on leadership?
Miguel Adao: Yeah, sure. I think there's a big difference between being a leader and being a manager, right? That's a cliche of articles and other podcasts perhaps, but you don't want to be just a manager going through the motions and ticking off the boxes and the to-do list. But a leader actually brings folks along on a common vision. And by definition, folks will come to the party with a different point of view, a different perspective, a different vantage point that is influenced by their personality, by their upbringing, by their history, by their preferences and passions. And so you need to be respectful. And I must say I was not a good leader earlier in my career. I learned through the years, through good leaders of mine, by replicating and mirroring their behaviors and their attitudes that you need to be more empathetic and more understanding that not everybody, in fact, you don't want people to be exactly like you.
I'm very outwardly enthusiastic. You can tell, right? I'm outwardly passionate and energetic. At first I used to think, "why aren't those folks equally rah, rah, rah?" They can be just as committed to the vision and even more so in their own way, and they're absolutely happy and passionate inside, and they don't have to demonstrate outwardly. So the extrovert versus introvert dynamic, et cetera. And so I've learned to appreciate that as a leader, what you want is people to rally behind and align with a vision and in their own way and in their own rhythm to follow along and to help build that. Not only follow along, but in many ways lead the leader, right? And help move the organization towards that common goal.
I also like this notion that not everybody needs to agree, but everybody needs to align, right? So you don't always need to agree. How can you expect a larger team of dozens and hundreds and thousands of people to agree on everything? It's impossible and thankfully so, but as long as folks align, then they can go towards that common goal with give and take and compromise, et cetera. So I think the biggest role of a leader is to bring those folks along on that journey with a combination of resolve and focus but also empathy.
The empathy part is what I learned later in my career cuz I was always, "come on, let's do it." If you're not doing this, get out of the boat and all those cliches, right? You're either with me or what is it? Or you're in front of me and if so, step out of the way or something like, and it's just so harsh and, and there can be cultural differences. There can be gender differences, that can be historical differences. And so, I've learned and I continue to learn more about empathetic and more kind of generous understanding of leadership. Because folks will contribute in, in different ways.
I always find that there are fundamentally three major drivers in life, and I always go back to my personal life as a father, as a husband, as a son, as a brother. But also at work, there's three key senses or key drivers. One is a sense of purpose. You want to get up and you want to have a sense that what you're doing matters. We all want to feel that what we do matters, hence the cathedral analogy. Hence the, we're here to help people live longer lives that matters. So a sense of purpose.
The other thing is a sense of achievement. A sense of accomplishment. So it's not just that kind of more ethereal sense of purpose and meaning to life and to what you do, but a sense of achievement. You're growing as a company. You're in percentages and in dollars and in market share and in number of customers and successful partnerships. So a sense of achievement that's the athletic kind of sports men like approach to not necessarily that you're competing and putting somebody else behind you, but that you're competing against yourself and you are getting better.
And then I think the third big driver in life is sense of connection, of human connection. Right? And we are very collaborative and gregarious and tribal animals. And that's why the pandemic was so tough. It was tough on us. It was certainly tough when my kids and children in particular suffered with skipping a year and having to do it at home. I'm just saying being away from other human beings is tough. And so in this new day and age, especially post COVID, we're still very much doing Zooms and Teams and podcasting, which is great. But every chance I get in the car, like I told you I'm gonna do in about 15 minutes, and I drive an hour and a half to see somebody. I live in northern in Delmar, north of San Diego. I'm driving up to San Clemente in Orange County, just south of LA to meet somebody for 40 minute lunch, cuz I need that human connection. So yeah, sorry, another long elaborate answer to your question, but for me, leadership is about connecting. It's about giving folks a sense of purpose and meaning, and it's about allowing folks to also accomplish and celebrate accomplishments and achievements.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And so how do you continue to prioritize your own learning and growing as a leader? And perhaps, as a manager as well?
Miguel Adao: Yeah, I'm very big on this. I love learning and I love teaching. I always try to remember when I lie down in bed at night, I'm trying to remember, "okay, what did I learn? What are two highlights from today? And, and what did I teach? What, is something that I share with somebody today that I think will also maybe improve their lives or their journeys?" And I do the same thing with my kids when I pick 'em up at school. Three highlights. "What did you learn today and how did you make your school day better for your teachers, for your classmates?" I've been doing this since they were kids, and I only speak Portugese with my kids. It's so funny. Because if I speak English with them, they'll just say, "Papa, that's weird. Don't do that." Even though they're 15 and 13. And one was born in England, the other was born here in San Diego. I only speak Portugese with them and so, I'm always prioritizing continued learning.
I got a doctorate in business years ago in New York and in Paris, not because I need it for business. I only did it because I wanna publish and I want to teach one day. I'm very big on mentorship. I'm training four different people now in different companies, in different countries. I'm also mentoree, if that's the word. I like to mentor. I always seek out mentors, and right now I have two, one helping me on more strategic financial P&L, managing the financial health of a company, which is not something that I was ever that close to. And one is helping me more on those topics I mentioned earlier about empathy and about those emotional intelligence as well, which historically has been a little bit of a blind spot for me. So those are two areas. That one is more hard skills, financial skills, strategic, running a business. And the other is more about how to be a better, more empathetic human. And so that's something I do all the time.
I also, whenever I can, I. I I do an executive program. I'm looking forward to doing a short program at Stanford University up in the Bay Area soon. And it's great to, to be able to do these programs, to be around like-minded individuals or maybe even unlike-minded individuals, but folks who also are looking to improve themselves and, and learn regardless of age. I'm 55, but I still want to learn as much as when I was 25. And just as I like to learn, I like to teach, so I love to present at different events and also mentor, as I said, I'm advising different entrepreneurs on their organizations as well when I have the time and the opportunity. So, yeah, continued learning both ways is a must, otherwise, you're a bike, and a bike if it stops moving, it falls over.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yes. What a perfect illustration. Thank you for that. My next question ties into that actually pretty well, so I'm happy about this. So for fun, imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It doesn't have to be in your industry, but it could be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Miguel Adao: For a million dollars I can do anything at all, I'll make it up as I go along.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right, right, right.
Miguel Adao: We'll use ChatGPT to really learn about it 15 minutes before the masterclass.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my gosh.
Miguel Adao: But I probably wouldn't be as knowledgeable and therefore not as passionate about it, and they wouldn't want to give me the full pay for the events. No, but on the professional side, the more corporate side, I'm passionate about marketing, about helping organizations, helping my organization move from awareness to consideration, to preference to purchase. And I feel that I'm very comfortable talking about this theme of growing brand awareness and generating leads and pipeline, and ultimately, like we were talking about, storytelling, helping folks come along on that journey with you so that you were saying the right thing to the right person at the right time and the right particular need, whether it's a B to C consumer need or a B to B kind of business need. And so I can talk about marketing in all its different aspects and tactics and vehicles till the cows come home, but nobody would pay even $10,000 for that cuz there's a lot of knowledgeable people who know a lot more about that than I do.
One area that I find I'm equally passionate more on the personal side, but that it touches obviously businesses and corporations and organizations as well, it's a combination of international intercultural experiences. Having lived in nine countries, speaking five languages, and having been exposed-- I've visited about 65 countries. I actually took the time to count one day. I've understood that actually the world, as diverse as it is, at the end of the day, everybody wants the same thing, right? It's just in a different way, in a different language, in a different approach, but everybody just wants to live a meaningful life. I'm not even gonna say happy life because happiness is relative, but a meaningful life, and they want to give their children or their loved ones the opportunity to do so as well.
And so I'm, I've always been very big on inclusion and diversity, not so much from the kind of catchphrases, which are so topical today and can generate all kinds of emotions, both positive and negative, but more from the point of view that from an early age I moved around the world. I had to learn different languages. I have to learn different habits and different attitudes. And so I find that I adapt myself easily to who you mentioned, different industries and different types of organizations from a Fortune 10 company to a small boutique engineering services firm.
So that's something I would love to teach a masterclass about how to adapt to different scenarios and certainly in terms of moving abroad, my friends and colleagues always check in with me if they're either visiting a place or moving to a place, what are some tips and tricks? So that's something I'm very passionate about, international and intercultural experiences.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Well, and that is so cool too, because of your background , like you said, you have had such cool opportunities to, to travel to different places and experience different things. So I really think that adaptability is such a good skill to learn. I can say that from personal experiences as somebody whose natural inclination is towards the more sort of routine driven, you know, learning to adapt and be flexible is so important. Yeah, Okay. What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Miguel Adao: I'm never gonna leave this world. I'm immortal.
Lindsey Dinneen: Alright.
Miguel Adao: Yeah. It's, it's so stupid, isn't it? We come to this existence. We live 80, if we're lucky, 90 years, and then we're gone. It can't be, it can't be. When we were in our twenties and thirties, we think we're gonna live forever. And then certainly as friends and elderly parents or relatives leave this world too, you realize, "yeah, this not, this is, this gig is not gonna last forever." I do want to be remembered as more than anything, as a good father and a good husband, and a good son, and a good brother. I'm not always, as those relatives would happily testify. I'm not always living up to my promise and my aspiration, but that's certainly my aspiration to be remembered as a good parent and husband above all, but also is a good friend and a good son and brother. That's, that's kind of the journey in the here and now that I'm on at all times. And so I try to remind myself in moments of stress, anxiety, sleeplessness, whatever, try to remember, this is your ultimate goal. What is the right behavior and the right thought, the right action for the moment.
Also, just more generically with Voler Systems, the company that I work for, that helps organizations build their medical devices and their wearable devices. And we talked about this at the beginning, how I'm so happy that I work for a company that's making organizations better so they can make their patients better. I want to leave Voler Systems better than when I arrived. Just as every other company that I worked for, I wanted to leave the company and the team as the organization, the department, better than when I arrived. And I think that's my summary is to just leave this place, quote unquote place, whatever the place is, a company, a city, a community, a planet, better than when I first got there. That's, that's my legacy. Now I am far from this, but certainly it doesn't hurt to have a wish and a desire and an aspiration, kind of a north star to help guide. I fall down time and time again in this goal, but, but it's still my goal. I'm not letting go of it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, I love that though. I, I love the perspective. In fact, I don't think I've heard anybody else say it quite like you did in terms of, if you have a goal and it's your north star, and this is how you wanna be remembered-- when you're feeling not at your best, you still have something to look at and go, "you know what, here's my ultimate goal." So here are the behaviors or the things I should say or not say to help get you closer to that goal. I think that's a beautiful way to put it. So it's not this aspirational idea that feels somewhat insurmountable or even unquantifiable. But instead you're doing tiny steps, tiny decisions make a big difference. So I love that.
Miguel Adao: Absolutely. Everyone should have a North Star. Everybody should have an ultimate goal, both in their personal, family, professional, financial, romantic, religious, spiritual, whatever. Everyone should have a goal and then you have many goals and many objectives to get there. And the line from here to that goal, to that north star is never a straight line. It's a zigzag. Sometimes it goes backwards. Sometimes it stalls for two years. But you should always be aspiring to get there. And so if you have a goal, aspirational and unreachable but still possibly reachable, then it's gonna keep you motivated and focused. And you will make mistakes and as you will invariably, cuz we're human, but you'll learn from it. And at least one thing, you can rest easy in knowing that at least that North Star does not change.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Great advice. Thank you. And then final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Miguel Adao: Oh, that's so easy. My kids and my wife, they crack me up. They're the three most incredible people I've ever met. And yeah, and it's just so interesting-- for those listeners who have kids-- you had this little baby that you shaped and molded and pretty soon that baby becomes an actual human being with thoughts and opinions and perspectives and intelligence and humor and wit, and some of it does not match what you say. And you're like, "where's this coming from?" And it's like, oh, I'm in awe. So, yeah, Olivia and Nico, and Lindy that's who makes me smile the most every day. And I, I live a blessed life because of them.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. What a great answer.
Miguel Adao: They'll like it too when they hear the recording.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.
Miguel Adao: Awkward.
Lindsey Dinneen: Nice. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I'm so thankful that you joined us today, and I just really appreciate learning more about your background and your experience and your passion. And so I really appreciate your time, and we're honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational and safe environment. That was your choice of charity to support and I am just so thankful that you chose that one. So, thank you again so much. This has been amazing.
Miguel Adao: I loved it. Thank you so much. Thank you for that charitable contribution as well. And thanks for the engagement, Lindsey. I really enjoyed it. Let's do it again next week, shall we?
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, there you go. Absolutely. Well, thank you again. We just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. And thanks also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Zoe Lalji | ALS Heroes | Virtual Reality, ALS Advocacy, & Self-Awareness

Zoe Lalji is a junior at UT Austin studying neuroscience with a minor in entrepreneurship on a pre-med track, and she is working to make virtual reality accessible to ALS patients. In this episode, she discusses what it was like when her dad was diagnosed with ALS and how that changed the trajectory of her career, her work with advancing virtual reality technology to better support patients' lives, and how hardship has developed an essential self-awareness.  
Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoe-lalji/
Charity supported: ALS Heroes
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 010 - Zoe Lalji
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Zoe Lalji. Zoe is a junior at UT Austin studying neuroscience with a minor in entrepreneurship on a pre-med track. Her passion for neuroscience began when her father was diagnosed with a Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) in 2017. And since then, she has been constantly searching for ways to improve his quality of life and expand his avenues of connection with the world around him. As part of this work, she is working to make virtual reality accessible to ALS patients and other highly disabled populations as a way to provide them with autonomy in the form of novel experiences and immersive activities that they're unable to engage in physically.
Zoe, oh my gosh, thank you so very much for joining us. I am just so very delighted that you're here and I just can't wait to hear more about your story and your background. But first, thank you just so much for being here.
Zoe Lalji: Aw. Thank you, Lindsey. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's awesome to be a part of this great podcast you have.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind starting by just telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and what led you to what you're doing now.
Zoe Lalji: Sure. So, right now I'm a junior at UT Austin and I'm studying neuroscience on a pre-med track and minoring in entrepreneurship. And as far as what kind of got me to where I'm at and-- I've been passionate about medicine for as long as I can remember. Both of my parents are in medicine. My dad was a dentist and my mom studied as a gynecologist and transferred into functional medicine. And they both had their own practices, so I've had that business background as well.
But that all shifted, I would say, when my dad was diagnosed with ALS in 2017. And from there it was a pause button if you could say on on my entire scheme of my life, my plans. You know, I think with pre-meds there's a track that is a starting point and you have a series of events that are lined out for you until you reach medical school and get that MD. And that kind of stopped me in my tracks and made me reassess what was truly important because I had to spend a lot of time caring for my dad, caring for my family, and it definitely shifts your priorities and makes you reassess your life.
And although, everything was still of in line with my values growing up, which was, I've always wanted to help people and that's what drew me to medicine. That's what I had really admired about my parents is the impact they had made on others' lives that were struggling, that had health conditions and needed guidance in that area of their lives. And I think watching my dad undergo one of those health conditions and just doing everything in my power to make it better for him in any way that I can. It just truly strengthened that core value for me.
And I think when you're in pre-med, there's kind of a tendency to get tunnel vision. And, kind of that check mark mentality where you go, "Do I have the grades? Do I have the volunteer hours, the extracurriculars," all that stuff. And I think, you lose sight of the why of medicine, until even after residency when you're actually in the field where you actually meet the patients and you actually you know, talk to the people that are struggling and realize how important it is. And until then, it's more about, memorizing facts and figuring out how the body works without really putting it into the context of the bigger picture.
So I think studying medicine alongside actually understanding what it's like to be on the other side, on the patient perspective, was a real driver for me. I guess the turning point for me for where I really realized that making an impact for medical problems is where my heart really lies.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is such a powerful story, so thank you for sharing that. I was wondering if you would be willing to share a little bit more about ALS and how that affects people's lives. I know it's a very difficult disease, but just from your perspective, especially having experienced it and trying to help someone who is dealing with it-- I would just love to hear a little bit more about it.
Zoe Lalji: Yeah, absolutely. So ALS is a neurodegenerative disease. It impacts the motor neurons in the body, which effectively causes people to lose their ability to walk, talk, move any part of their body and eventually breathe on their own. And it's a interesting disease in that there's not much known about the pathophysiology of it, in that like they don't know what causes it. They don't know how to even approach treatment. Only 10% of ALS cases have been found to be connected to a gene. And even then they haven't really found a way to reverse any of that.
So it's a completely uncured disease, the treatment is very limited, in that there's maybe a few months of life expectancy increased by the treatment, but in contrast you get a lot of side effects from it, which effectively makes you pretty much zombified. You know, it's a lot of fatigue, a lot of nausea, and a lot of patients just opt not to do it because the quality of life is really reduced from just being on those treatments.
And so it's just a hopeless disease. And when you're given that diagnosis and told that it's always fatal and there's nothing that really you can do, you just feel completely helpless. And then as you lose your agency over your body, your ability to do things on your own, that helplessness sort of grows and consumes you. It's a very difficult disease to be diagnosed with on the patient and the family.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Yeah. Well, and I know part of your work, something that you are doing right now is working to make virtual reality accessible to ALS patients. And I love this idea, and I would love if you would be willing to share more about this and what brought that idea about and where is it taking you.
Zoe Lalji: Yeah, of course. I love talking about it. This idea came from just my desire and my constant searching for things to do with my dad or things to bring him happiness in his life, or greater quality of life. And it came about from actually an internship I had during my gap year, which I took before college. And I was at a startup accelerator and there was a XR lab in the accelerator where they had virtual reality headsets, and I had talked to the head of the lab and he let me use one of his headsets and I ended up using Google Earth on the headsets. And I don't know if you've ever used virtual reality, but for whoever has used it, it's very life like, like you actually feel like you're there. You feel like you're walking the streets of Rome or you're in, you're in Paris, or so many different places that you can just click a button and just be fully immersed there. And that's just Google Earth.
There's so many other immersive scenarios that you can dive into in virtual reality. And with the immersion of the Metaverse and so many different concepts of the growing interest in virtual reality as a way to have a life outside of the physical life. And just from seeing that Google Earth scenario, immediately I thought, "Wow, this would be incredible for my dad."
Because for patients that have all of these life support machines, when they lose their breathing, you have to get a surgery and you have to be basically connected to a machine that controls your breathing. And obviously with that, you can't travel, you can't get on a plane. And for many of these patients, like my dad, you have all these hopes of where you would like to travel one day, things you would like to do one day, and life just happens and you don't end up doing it. But you always think there's time. You always think, " Maybe when I retire, I'll go and travel the world." The common notion that people say.
When something like this happens and puts your life in pause where you realize you're never gonna be able to travel again, or you're never gonna be able to skydive or bungee jump or do those bucket list things that you said that you would one day do. And like, even further than that, it's more the things that you used to do every day that sort of defined you, that sort of made you feel like-- for example, my dad would, for as long as I can remember, probably my earliest memory of him is him waking up every morning and going for a run. And he never missed a day. And it was so important to him, like being who he is and his day working out the way he wanted it to, that he had that run, he had to start his day off feeling like himself.
And I feel like we all have those hobbies and habits that really all together define who we are. And when you get a disease, not only is it like you're losing all of those things all at once, you start to define yourself as your disease then, because there's nothing else really left. I think for me, virtual reality meant giving those back this semblance of who they once were that they've lost. I think we're all the sum of what we do every day and our dreams and hopes for the future. And when those are taken away, it's who are we really? And that's not even considering the communication that patients lose. So you can't even really express yourself either.
So with that, it's like there's this huge disconnect with their identity and I, I just see VR as a way for these patients to enter the world where they don't have to be defined as their disability, where they can do everything that anyone else can in virtual reality. And the problem lies with the modes of interaction with the devices where VR right now has remote controls that you need to use to interact with the environment, and you have to walk around to see the full environment, which for all quadriplegics, there's no really way to do that. So I'm trying to make that aspect accessible for that population so that they can have access to those virtual life-like immersive experiences that can tie them to the things that they used to love or would love to do one day.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So essentially taking some of the existing tech, but putting it into a new method of delivery, I suppose? So that folks who can't, like you said, walk or that can't necessarily interact through a series of controllers or something like that, would be able to still experience those wonderful, immersive things. Is that...
Zoe Lalji: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Lindsey Dinneen: Ok. Wow. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. This is so exciting, just to hear all about this. I know that you are still pursuing medicine and then now you're also pursuing this sort of tech side of things. I understand the background of you coming into it and why, but how have you found these interactions? Have they played out easily? Has it been an odd transition, or how has that all worked out?
Zoe Lalji: Yeah, as you can imagine, it's like I have two sort of big things that I love and I'm passionate about and they both take a lot of time and effort and energy. And to say the least, it has been difficult to prioritize one or the other and find the time in the day for both. What I love about medicine is that the hope that we can bring to the patient. I love the innovation of it. I love coming up with solutions that aren't out there, that for the patients like my dad that don't see hope in existing medicine. I wanna be the hope for those patients.
And that's, that's how I feel right now. I, I know I will always love every aspect of medicine, but that's what really drives me is that notion of helping those people that are feeling the medicine has failed them, and providing them with unconventional solutions that maybe they didn't think to look for or didn't think that there was one, you know? I think that until there's a cure for some of these diseases, technology can bridge that gap of function and bring back what people have lost.
And I've seen it, I've worked with Paradromics as a BCI company in Austin and that was my first exposure since developing my startup into the, the medical technology world. And they're just such a amazing team and they have such a noble cause that they're fighting for and they just wanna help people like my dad. And to be surrounded by people that want to do that and the technology and seeing how impactful it has the potential to be. It really inspired me, especially coming from such a hopeless diagnosis that we had, it really gave my family hope. It gave me hope, and that's the feeling I wanna give to other people.
And so my plan right now is to finish out my pre-med prerequisites in college and take a gap year or two to really work on my startup, really work on things like put myself in different environments in the medical technology world, get more experience and really understand my passion and what I can offer to the field. And from there I'll really decide if an MD is the right path for me or if I want to go a different route to get a different degree, you know, and still work within medicine, but not maybe bedside and not maybe in a hospital and not maybe with direct patient care. So yeah, I think that's the route I'm thinking right now? Yeah that's the plan.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's a great plan. And I love, I love your willingness and your openness to explore and continue to evolve, perhaps, over time in terms of, when you go into a new path and you've had this set of expectations for yourself for a while, that this is where you were going to head. And then things change and I just think it's quite remarkable when someone like you who is obviously very talented, smart, multi-passionate, is able to pivot and say, " I love this aspect, but I also love this aspect and maybe I can do both in a really creative way." I think that's fantastic.
Zoe Lalji: Yeah, I mean, it was such a difficult thing for me since I had wanted to do medicine my whole life. It was something that was so ingrained in who I thought I was. Everyone asks you when you meet them, like "What do you wanna do with your life? What are you majoring in? What's your path?" And always it's pre-med, ever since I was a kid, I'd say pre-med, and it's strange to change that. And I think what really helped me get there is my life has been so turbulent and I've had to really get used to things not being how I planned, you know? And like that with my dad's diagnosis, throwing us into a spiral. And then after that actually, the gap year itself was another event that I had not planned for.
I had decided to take one because my dad really needed me, and I found in my value scope that really came first before anything else. And then it became a serendipitous decision because in December, after I had taken my gap year, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. And luckily she's cancer free now, but we had to go through chemo, radiation, surgery and I could not have dealt with that at college. I had to be home, I had to be with her. And somebody had to take care of my dad. Somebody had to help her keep everything together and keep herself together.
And I think, that was probably one of my biggest teachers is that, things are gonna happen. You can't avoid change, and I think that was really difficult to realize that maybe my plan wasn't the right plan for me, and maybe I need to take a second and let myself sit in the ambiguous unknown, which is really uncomfortable, but sometimes it's necessary in order to figure out where you really belong. But yeah it's definitely not easy. I definitely have not figured everything out. It's definitely some days I'm like, I just want to go back to the known, it's so much easier. But yeah, I think it's just getting used to the unknown and getting used to change.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And kudos to you for that viewpoint. And I'm sure, I'm sure some days are easier than others. I certainly understand that. But seriously, kudos to you for being willing to adapt to changing circumstances that you didn't plan for and you wouldn't have wished for, but this is really amazing to me as to how you've taken something that is so incredibly difficult and challenging, but you've really embraced the challenge-- and maybe that was a long time in coming-- but you've embraced that challenge and then you're not just helping your own family, which is incredibly important, but you're doing work that's gonna help so many people. And I think that is just amazing. Thank you for doing what you're doing.
Zoe Lalji: Absolutely. Like you said, it definitely was a long time of really a lot of self-awareness, a lot of self-work, to get to a place where I was ready to embrace it, like you said, like it's something that has been difficult, has been so trying on our family, so trying on my dad. And a lot of days I am like, why did this happen? And I feel a lot of grief and a lot of sadness and unwillingness to embrace it. But for the most part, I've reached a point where I've realized that this is something that we've come a long way from, and we try to make the best out of the situation and make every day as bright as we can, given everything. And that's all we really can do.
And I think watching my dad overcome it himself has been just what has given me the strength I need to get out of that sort of pity, out of that grief of like, why me? Why has this happened? And anger because when you think about what ALS patients go through, it's like you just can't even imagine what it could be like to be in that position. And to watch my dad really take that in stride and be this ferocious warrior through it and keep fighting no matter what life throws at him. He's almost at six years since his diagnosis and he's still fighting and he's still finding a reason to smile every day.
And when I think about that it reminds me that it's okay. If he can fight like he's been fighting, then we all have that strength in us and that's, I think, what inspires me to want to help people like him, to want to bring more light into others' lives that are going through what we've gone through. And I think it's our duty really. I think I've gotten a very unique experience to watch somebody rise from the ashes and learn from that and I think that hardship, it sucks, and I'm not gonna say it doesn't at all like it, it does suck. All of it sucks, but it's an opportunity to learn. It's an opportunity to grow and it's an opportunity to become the best version of yourself through it.
And there's moments when you don't want to learn , you know, you just, "I'm done with the lessons," like "I've had enough!" I think at the end of the day, it's like everything that I am and everything that I've learned it's valuable, regardless of what I have to go through to get me here. It's who I am. And so I think the best thing I can do with that is use it as a way to empathize with others in a way to really understand what's needed and how to help people that go through similar things that I've seen with my dad.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. That's absolutely beautiful. Well, I'm wondering is there a particular moment or perhaps series of moments that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career path for you, even though it's been a bit of a meandering one, a pivoting one. Is there any particular moment where you thought, "Okay, this is why I'm here."
Zoe Lalji: Like you said, it's a lot of moments. I mean, I would say the first moment was definitely when my dad was diagnosed. But even then I didn't really make that shift of " I'm definitely gonna do this for the rest of my life." It was more of a shock where I realized this is something I really care about. But I think really working on my startup has been so empowering. And then also my internship at Paradromics. I think the main moment that recently has made me realize that kind of clarify what exactly about medicine really drives me is I was invited to speak at a brain computer interface conference at the Chamber of Commerce. And through that I met so many key players in the the ecosystem. And I spoke to a lot of them about what I was passionate about, what I was doing, my story.
And it was remarkable to me that so many people really cared and it was so obvious that everyone genuinely cared about the patient and about helping that person. It wasn't about the product, it wasn't about the business. It was about how can we help people the best way that we can and how can we use the potential of this technology to really help people's lives. And I think that energy and being in that space of like people just wanting to help, that was just so new for me because I think when something happens like that, you feel so incredibly alone and nobody could ever really help you, and it's like there's no hope.
And people can try to support you and they can try to take care of you, but there's no way that they can actually help. And then even from the medicine side, there really wasn't anything there. And to enter into a room where so many people were making things actively that could help, for me as a daughter of somebody that was going through it, it wasn't so impactful and it made me think what about for others that are like me or for others that are like my dad to be exposed to this world of increasing potential and technology. And I was like, this is where I wanna be. This is home.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. That is a very powerful story. Thank you for sharing that. I have been personally so inspired by people in the medtech industry and healthcare because, you know, you start talking to them and it's easy to see how much they care. It's like you said, it's not just about the product, it's not just about the business, it's not about making money, although everyone needs to to make a living but it's about truly helping people, and I think that's just one of the most inspiring things that I have personally gotten to witness by meeting truly remarkable people through this field. That makes sense to me that, that was a moment that stood out for you. Well, that's amazing. Well, I'm curious, so you're in a really interesting new phase. Yeah. And I, I'm curious as you continue to develop your startup and whatnot, how would you define leadership? Or what does leadership mean to you?
Zoe Lalji: I think for me, and from my experience with it, leadership is really about empathy and understanding your team. And the analogy I would use is like a wolf pack. The leader of the wolf pack is always walking behind the pack and making sure nobody gets lost and making sure everybody has purpose and a destination. And I think that as a leader, it's your responsibility to make sure that the team is whole, in a way, where everybody on the team-- you understand them enough to know their strengths and to know their tendencies and set them up to succeed and set them up to benefit the full team and have everybody on the team feel like their strengths are building the team into the best version of itself.
And I think having that ability to really understand people really qualifies someone as a great leader. And I, I would liken a leader to a mentor in a way, because it's not about you, if you're leading a team, your success is the team's success, right? And your goal is to inspire success in each of the individual people on the team so that the team can be greater than the sum of its parts. Because everyone's strengths play in a way that they add to each other and compliment each other.
And I think from what I've found is that when people realize that you truly understand them and you see what really makes them unique, they're more willing to devote those strengths to whatever cause you're going for. And they're more attentive to the goals you place for the team, the end goal. And I think another thing that a leader really has to do is understand the why of the team and really show that or really demonstrate that to the team and align them under the same why. Because I think what makes a team really unique is their ability to align themselves under that goal and all fight for that goal together. I think those are two things that I find are really important in a leader.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. Yeah. So pivoting a little bit, just for some fun. Imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It can be in your industry or something you're working on now, but doesn't necessarily have to be, what would you choose to teach and why?
Zoe Lalji: Wow. That is a fun question. Wow. Okay. I think I would probably want to teach a class on self-awareness through hardship. I think that is one of the biggest things that I have struggled with especially when I think in my gap year was the biggest moment where I realized, I am really defining myself as a caregiver. I'm defining myself as someone that cares for others because I did that every day. And it was so difficult to have my own identity, to have my own sense of self, and I think that really finding that balance of what do I need to be the best version of myself and to do the best for others because of that.
I think that journey for me of really finding what's important to me, reprioritizing, because I think moments like these shift your priorities so much. They shift your view of the world. They shift who you are. And to catch up with that is there's so much change going on in your life to keep a pulse on you and who you are, what you stand for, is so incredibly difficult. And I think if you're not careful and you're not placing importance on that, you become misaligned and you don't live in your true values. You don't live within your true values because you don't have that alignment within yourself.
And I think, once you've gone through a phase where you've completely lost sight of that and it's a phenomena with caregivers that we tend to forget about ourselves completely. And we place focus on others, on the people we're caring for. And I think in my gap year with both of my parents needing me to be there for them, it made me feel like this is more important, right? Because before the diagnosis with my dad, my highest priority was always family. And caring for others and giving back was such a huge thing that had been instilled in me, and it's still a huge priority for me.
But I never had to take care of myself. I never had to place importance on that because there was never a point where I was gasping for air and gasping for care. And I think it also just felt like I didn't know who I was anymore, and that's such a terrible place to be in. And that's why I can say that for, for patients that undergo this, it's that to a totally different extent, and that goes back to my VR project. But I've done so much, coming into college and really getting the space to put myself in different scenarios and see who I am.
 I think that sitting with myself and taking that time and doing that work has really allowed me to be there better for my parents, be there better for my family, because I'm just more aligned. I'm more me. And being around my dad when I'm not even me is not helping him. He wants to spend time with me. I think when you neglect yourself, it's hard to be you, you know, it's hard to explain, but I think just having that alignment through something so pivotal in your life, something so earth shattering that happens to you, that kind of shifts who you are. And keeping track of that shift and keeping yourself in your care and treating yourself as a child, because you are. You have to nurture your inner child and really take care of that child and not think that child is perfect because they're not.
And the thing about this particular class would be that I haven't figured it out. But I have done a lot of work and I would want to help people that are trying to navigate that because I feel like there's been a lot of trial and error and if I can help people in any way with my experience with it and what's worked for me, and how I went about figuring out what works for me, I think finding that balance within such a all-consuming situation and hardship, that I would wanna help people through that. That's been monumental for me in realizing that myself was important, in defining myself and being aware of myself and who I was. And so yeah, I think realizing that was important through all of this hardship. I think that's one of the biggest learning moments for me, and I'd really wanna share that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, there are so many people who are going through similar things that could really benefit from that. So that would be an amazing masterclass. So I'll look forward to that whenever that comes up. What is one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Zoe Lalji: Honestly, I feel like my impact will be in the lives that I've impacted, and if I can be remembered as a friend, as an advocate, and as a mentor for those people, I would be fulfilled. I feel like I would just want to at least help one life that needs that guidance, you know, that feels so alone and feels so hopeless, to bring that small amount of hope, even if nothing at all. And I think where my fulfillment comes is that I want to help people like my dad, people like me, people that have been struggling, that can't find what way is up, which way is the light, either guide them or provide them with some semblance of hope. Or just be a friend, or just be support. Because coming from someone that's been there, coming from someone that can empathize and make them feel like, "Hey, you're not alone. It might feel lonely and it might suck, but you're not alone."
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. That is very powerful. Final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Zoe Lalji: Well, I think that one is easy because it's my dad. He's my inspiration. He has so much light within him that only comes from overcoming something like this. And his energy is just so incredible, and he is the reason I keep doing what I do. And I think also, the memories I have of him, the memories of him as my father when I was a kid and things that he used to do with me and things that just really showed that he loved me so much. And those memories that are just so sacred to me and every time I think about it, it's bittersweet, but it always makes me happy to remember what he means to me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Zoe, oh my gosh, you are so very inspirational. I would not wish the path that you have taken on you in the way that it has happened, but I just admire you so much for taking a very hard path, but making so much good come from it and embracing the light and embracing choosing to help others see that light and see hope in a difficult time. Gosh, I cannot wait to continue following your work and seeing what you do because I know you're gonna be impacting a lot of lives. Oh my gosh.
Zoe Lalji: Thank you. Yeah, and I really loved being on your podcast. I loved talking to you. This form is amazing and I can't wait to see what other amazing speakers you get on here.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, thank you, and we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to your family's organization, which is ALS Heroes. This organization honors the heroes amongst us who have stared devastation in the face, only to say, "you do not define me." The organization hopes to guide those heroes in navigating their resources and provide them with hope in the midst of a seemingly hopeless disease. And I'm so excited to continue to learn more about the organization and how we can get involved. So thank you for bringing our attention to it, and thank you again for being here. We wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Zoe Lalji: Thank you so much, Lindsey. It's been a pleasure.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely, and thank you also to our listeners for tuning in. If you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, continue to pass along the word, and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Etienne Nichols | Greenlight Guru | Gratitude, Writing to Reflect, & Furthering the Medtech Industry

Etienne Nichols is a mechanical engineer, PMP-certified project manager, the host of the Global Medical Device Podcast, and the builder of the Greenlight Guru MedTech Excellence Community. In this episode, he shares a plethora of advice and great stories, including why gratitude and curiosity matter so much, how writing helps you to identify what you truly believe, his passion for furthering the medtech industry, and how an article he read changed his life. 
Guest links: https://www.greenlight.guru/podcast | https://www.greenlight.guru/etienne-nichols-thankyou | https://www.linkedin.com/in/etiennenichols/ 
Charity supported: Polaris Project
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 009 - Etienne Nichols
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to The Leading Difference. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Etienne Nichols. Etienne is a mechanical engineer and PMP certified project manager with a wealth of experience in the medical device industry. He's worked with Fortune 500 and startup medical device companies and has taught classes on quality management systems and design controls for Regulatory Affairs Professional Society and American Society for Quality. He is a frequent speaker at MedTech conferences, the host of the Global Medical Device Podcast, and the builder of the MedTech Excellence Community. Thank you so very much for joining us, Etienne. I'm so excited to have you here on this show today. Welcome.
Etienne Nichols: Thank you. I'm excited to be here as well. I'm super pumped to be with you today.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, I would love, if you wouldn't mind starting by just telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got to where you are now.
Etienne Nichols: Sure. I guess if I was to break down as simple as possible, I'm the host of the Global Medical Device Podcast, and I say that partly because we just interviewed Dan Purvis, the CEO of Velentium on his book, "28 Days to Save the World." Loved that, but, anyway, just had to throw that out there because I'm just such a big fan of you guys as well.
Okay. To your question, specifically, my background, the word background can meet a lot of things. I just finished a book called "Livewired" by David Eagleman. He's a neuroscientist at Stanford. He basically says, our brains aren't so much observers of reality, but filters. So we filter out our past, we hone in on certain things. Okay? I say all that to say when I think of background, I imagine a picture of Mona Lisa, what's in the background? You think Mona Lisa, what's in the background? Only things that matter to Da Vinci. So I'd like to tell you a quick story. It might not seem super relevant, but this is a story of kind of help shape who I am.
When I was in my early twenties, I thought I was in love, but it turned out that it wasn't meant to be. So as an early 20 something without a fully grown prefrontal cortex, I did what any self-respecting Oklahoman would do. I signed up for Terry Don West School of Bull Riding. Terry was a world champion bull rider 1985 to 2003, and he had a school outside in Henrietta, Oklahoma. So I went there. I was the only city kid there. After a few rides, like I literally got on multiple bulls and I got on one where it laid down in the shoot, it was bucking around and laid down in the shoot and it, it was dark down there. And my brain immediately said, "abort mission, jump outta here, jump outta the shoot." And I jumped out and I was terrified. Terry ran over, he yanked me by the collar, he stuck his gloved finger in my face, and he said, "you never ever ever get off a bull in the shoot."
And so I, I'd say that story to say, when I think about background, that was a pivotal moment in my life when I thought, you never give up. You know, no matter how dark or scary it is, you never give up. So that, that was one of the things that before I was engineer, that was one of the pivotal moments.
 I'll talk about my real background, I guess that's more traditional. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade. Before coming to MedTech, I worked in aerospace, the steel industry, so both regulated and unregulated. I'm gonna close my window because I actually have a rooster right outside my window.
Lindsey Dinneen: I've been enjoying him.
Etienne Nichols: But I've worked in manufacturing regulatory. I actually got my project management, professional certification on a regulatory project product development. Finally was a project manager of a drug delivery combination product. So, all of those things before I came to Greenlight Guru, which is where I am now. I've worked with dozens of companies to help them set up and implement their quality management system. And so as I mentioned before now, I manage the Global Medical Device Podcast. So it's been a really fun ride.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Yeah. And a very eclectic ride. It sounds like you have come at this in a very unique way. Okay. I would love to hear a little bit more about your story on joining Greenlight Guru, because I recently read a post on LinkedIn about it. I just thought, "wow, what a great story." I'd love if you'd share that with us.
Etienne Nichols: Sure. This was several years ago. I was working as a project manager for a drug delivery combination product company. I walked into the VP of Engineering's office. He and I were talking about some things that were going on, and I thought, I need to do a little bit of research. I went back to my computer. I started looking for an article, and that was when I first stumbled across Greenlight Guru. I came across the article, "DHF Versus DMR Versus DHR." It's a helpful article because FDA and their acronyms, if you're familiar with those. So after reading that article, I did what anyone would do. You know, you reach out to the author, thank them for their writing. And so I, I reached out to Jesseca Lyons who was the author on LinkedIn, and I told her I really appreciated the things that she had written, and she just responded, "yeah, you're welcome."
The very next day she posted, "Hey, we had a great quarter last quarter, and by the way, we're hiring" and I thought "hiring?" So I clicked on the link and it looked really interesting and I just applied on the whim. I was not looking for a new job. I wasn't interested in getting a new job, but I wanted to learn more about this person and their company. And after my first interview with her, she literally put a Zoom meeting on my calendar that afternoon. Three days later I had an interview with Tom Rish. Four or five days later, I had an interview with Fran Cruz, who was the VP of Customer Success at the time. And I basically had an offer in less than 10 days, I I believe.
 So, Jessica and I joke about that article changing my life a little bit, but it's a really good article. But it's been a fantastic ride and I've really enjoyed my time at Greenlight Guru. And I'll say one other thing, it felt like a big risk at the time to move because I was in a great position. I loved the company I was working for. I really respected the CEO. But after looking at this company, it felt like a risk, but the more I thought about it, it was so in line with what I really loved doing: content creation, interacting with customers directly, and the potential to get on stage and speak on the podcast or at conferences. I felt like it was a bigger risk not to take this job.
So this is something that I would throw out to some of the listeners is you may be facing different career steps and there's always a risk no matter what you do, but you always have to think about the risk of not taking a risk. And I think that's something we sometimes forget. So I dunno if that answered your question. That's the story as least as it's coming to me at the moment.
Lindsey Dinneen: No, That's a great answer. Yeah, I love those collisions, I like to call them. All of a sudden, things work out, but it takes intention, right? You read an article and then you reached out to the author and that led to a series of events, and here you are. But, I just love when those, those kinds of things happen. Those stories are my favorite.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. It makes me think-- oh, I'm probably gonna butcher this-- but the definition of luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
Etienne Nichols: And I think if you're always preparing, you, you may or may not be lucky. The opportunity may or may not arise, but when they do, you know, you almost have an obligation to take that sometimes.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely agree. Yeah. A theme that I have picked up on from following your work on LinkedIn and whatnot is gratitude. And I would love if you would share just a little bit maybe about your philosophy behind it, because it seems like something that you often express gratitude, whether it's to the author of an article that you appreciated or it's to an interviewee that had a particularly inspiring thing to share. I just have noticed that theme throughout your work, and I would just love to hear your perspective on it.
Etienne Nichols: Wow. I actually got like little chills when you were saying that because I don't think anybody, nobody's ever mentioned that or called that out. So I'm glad that's showing through, for sure. I'm really thankful, I'm thankful that's showing through. It's funny, let me rewind to a period in my career that I thought this was one of the toughest parts of my career. It, looking back, it was one of the toughest. I was in a situation where I was leading a project that if this project did not succeed, many, probably dozens of people would be laid off because the company wouldn't be able to support them if this project didn't succeed.
That was my perception. And I think even looking back, I think it's accurate. So, I was really stressed at the time. We were working 60 plus hours a week, me and my team, And during that time, I honestly thought a lot about giving up. I never gave up. I told my wife, no matter how hard it is, I've gotta finish this. And then, if it's still difficult, after we're done, we're gonna move on. And that is what happened. We brought the project to fruition and moved on.
But during that time, I remember standing outside a conference room and I stared at an empty whiteboard and I looked at that whiteboard and I thought someone should put something in there. So I put just a question. "What is your definition of success?" I believe that was the first question. A few days later, I walked by again and lots of people had answered that with their different definitions, and I thought, huh? I took a picture, went home, and I wrote a memo. I said, "what is your definition of success? This is what you said."
I went back to work and I sent this out to, I don't know, 20 different people. I didn't know who had answered on the whiteboard and I wrote a lot of these different things and people kept telling me you know, appreciate you translating our words into this memo. Just kinda your giving it your own thoughts. By the time I left that company, I had over a hundred people who I was, you know sending a Monday memo to, and I learned somewhere along the way that people don't mind getting a little bit of encouragement. During that time, the way I was able to get through the stress was every morning I would write that Monday memo. I would think about those things people were saying, and I would try to focus, what am I really grateful about these people? And that's really what helped me get through.
So, that was kind of a circuitous way of answering your question, so I'd like to be a little bit more succinct here in the, my last couple phrases here. There is, there's a lot of scarcity in the world, but gratitude really shows you what you have. When you start looking and comparing your life to other people's, it's easy to wish you had this, wish you had that. When you're grateful for what you have, you start recognizing all the things that you do have. And so it's more of an abundance mindset. So that's been my philosophy. I believe gratitude is at the heart of of an abundance mindset.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And that story is pretty awesome. So was that maybe the start of your content creation journey?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, I do think that. Oh,, if you'll let me go through another story, which is
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, please.
Etienne Nichols: When it comes to content creation I'm a big believer in writing and having a writing practice of some sort. So, to answer your question just directly, yes. that was the beginning and I learned the value of writing every morning. In fact, at that time I was very disciplined. I have three kids now, I'm not quite as disciplined. I would get up at 4:45 every morning. I would go work out and then I would stop at a coffee shop on my way to work. I would write for 30 minutes, and then I would go to work. That was before the pandemic, coffee shops closed. And it was before kids and all these different things, but that's when I started writing.
Fast forward to Greenlight Guru. I was working with different customers and I was loving what I was doing. Occasionally I would post on LinkedIn just a long form article about, this is something I learned about, I don't know 21 CFR part 820.40 document controls. Why do you need to show a Rev A to Rev B? Why do you justify those changes? All these different things. I've just wrote an article about that, and I would do that every now and then. Well, while I was in that position here at the company at Greenlight Guru, the CMO, Nick Tippmann reached out to me and said, "Hey, we're thinking about building a community and we want you to build the community. I've been watching what you post on LinkedIn."
So this is a guy I'd never met before. He's within my company, but he saw what I was doing on LinkedIn, the content creation. At the same time, the founder of the company, Jon Speer reached out to me and said, "Hey, I've watched some of the things you wrote on LinkedIn. Wondered if you'd be interested to be a co-host on the podcast." And so these are two separate situations happening at the same time because of the content creation.
Now I'd been writing for years up until this point. And I'll tell you one more thing about writing is it helps you identify what you truly believe, what you actually think. You may think something, but once you write it out, you may change your mind or tweak it slightly. And so that really helps. And so I've been doing this for multiple years and it got me to a point where two different people approached me and I was able to accept that, and it's been really fun.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that story. When you had the opportunity to do the podcast, was that something that you felt immediately comfortable taking on? Was that something that took a little bit of a learning curve, or how did that work for you?
Etienne Nichols: The way I would describe it was terror. I had never met the founder of this company. And not only was I meeting the founder, we were interviewing the best in the field-- people like Mike Drews or your CEO, Dan Purvis. Every time I saw those names on my calendar, the pit of my stomach would ball up and I'd go through some breathing exercises, do some squats, whatever. And it's okay, we could do that. But, when you get scared like that, to me, you, you have to qualify it a little bit, but a certain amount of that fear, to me says this is the right direction for me. And the same thing happened at multiple points in my career that sort of confirmed this is the right thing and that little bit of fear is one of 'em. You can look at it as fear, but you can also be excitement because I'm reaching beyond my grasp, and if I keep reaching, I'll grow and I can actually reach this thing. So that's how I looked at that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I was once told by a friend that she felt that whenever you were nervous it was because you cared. And so use that nervous energy to do a really good job because it can be harnessed, right? That fear, that, that nervousness, but it's not a bad thing, it's just along for the ride. It's there to help give you a little extra boost and that's okay. And I've always kinda liked that.
Etienne Nichols: So I'm curious about you because I love talking to other podcasters, so I just, if we could flip the script just for a minute. I'm curious how you handle that nervousness or is, are there any specific things you do?
Lindsey Dinneen: That is a great question. Yes, I still do get nervous. And it does depend on the situation, but I think one thing that I have learned is that being yourself, being just normal and natural and a little vulnerable and a little bit not polished is actually a lot more relatable to people than being perfect. And I'm not perfect. My interviews will never be perfect, but I can do my best and I can be me. And the more that I embrace that, the more comfortable I am.
Etienne Nichols: Oh, yeah. I think that's great. The one thing that I I can't remember who told me this but curiosity-- you talk about like what is the opposite of love? Is it hate? Some people may say hate, but I actually think it's indifference. Indifference to me is the opposite of love. So what's the opposite of cowardice or being afraid? The opposite of that isn't courage, because you have to be afraid in order to have courage. To me, the opposite of being afraid is curiosity. Someone may disagree with me, but that's the way I banish fear is, man, be really curious. " Why did I react that way? Or what are they really trying to tell me?" And instead of thinking, oh, this person's title is this, and this, I'm like, "what are they actually saying?" This is really interesting. So that's how I look at that.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's great advice too, just in general because curiosity allows you to explore and exploration is always a success, right? It doesn't lead to failure, it's just a way to learn more about the world around you.
Etienne Nichols: Absolutely.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, okay, so you have mentioned that there have been a couple of moments along your journey that I guess confirmed to you that this is the right path. But I'm curious, specifically in the medtech industry, what is it that drives you, that gives you that passion to continue doing what you're doing?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, I can tell you a couple different things. So the spark I would say happened when I was in college. I broke my arm and it was a go-karting accident. And I went to school with arm in a cast. But before I got my arm in a cast, the guy's name was Garrett Watts, the hand doctor who put me back together, and he knew I was a mechanical engineering student. He talked to me about the Synthes DePuy, I don't can never pronounce that word, but the little piece that was going to be placed into my arm with different screws and talked about the physics of it really fascinated me. I thought, man, as a mechanical engineer, I could contribute to this industry. That would be great. That was a spark.
Then when I met my wife, she has had a pacemaker since she was 11. So, I've seen her through multiple surgeries to get new pacemakers. And every time I see that, it's man, I am so thankful somebody developed this medical device. There have been other times when I had to watch a loved one go back to the OR, and just talking to the surgeons afterwards and learning about the things that they have to go through. I want their life to be easy. I want them to be able to do their job efficiently. And so I really am passionate about the medtech industry for those reasons.
You know, I love all of the things that go into engineering. I will never be the best at those things. And I kind of had to realize that somewhere along the way. The people who are really the best at anything are the people who do it for a living and also do it for a hobby. And those are the people you want in your life in different roles leading technically and things like that. But when it comes to MedTech, I realize I could be passionate about this product because I know the end user is going to be truly affected by this. Not only some unknown person, it could even be my wife, my son, anybody I love could be affected by this. To me, MedTech is really personal, and that's what confirmed this industry.
For different roles, I see myself as, I just want to help the industry and so whatever role I can be in, whether that's mechanical engineer or a project manager, or a regulatory consultant or a podcaster. However I can help further the industry to where we work more efficiently and more streamlined in a way that produces safe and effective medical devices. That's the role I want to be in, whatever that role is.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've mentioned having opportunities to be in leadership roles, to lead teams, and we've had that discussion in regards to gratitude specifically, but I'm curious, how would you define leadership? Or what does it mean to you?
Etienne Nichols: That's a good question. And so two things come to mind. And they're actually both books, and so you don't have time to quote an entire book, but all my best thoughts came from someone else. And so even that's a line from someone. But the two books I could think of first one is "Leaders Eat Last," I believe it's by Simon Sinek. And it's really the idea that leaders are meant to build others up. In fact, actually, a third book comes to mind. That's "28 Days to Save the World" by your CEO dan Pervis. That's a fantastic book. I really recommend that one as well. And I'm not just saying that because it's your, it's your guy. He covers so much ground in that book. It really was something that you almost need to read multiple times.
But the second book that I recommend is "Captain Class" by Sam Walker. So he talked about the captains of teams. So usually when we think of a leader, we might think of the CEO, we might think of the executive team, and those certainly are incredibly important. But the "Captain Class" by Sam Walker, he's actually a sports journalist, if I'm remembering all of this correctly. He analyzed all of the great sports dynasties, not just someone who wins one off, but he gave certain parameters as to what he would define as a team sport and a team and a dynasty, and all those different things at the beginning of his book. But he talks about " what do they have in common?" And he looked at the coaches, he looked at the budget, he looked at the manager, he looked at the location, all these different things.
And the thing that he found that was really consistent across all of these dynasties was the captain of the team. It might not be the best player. It might not be the person who's most outspoken, but it's that person who brings a certain energy and can recognize when things are going sideways or things are changing, and he somehow tweaks the team in such a way that they can reorient and get back on track.
So you want your best player shooting hoops, shooting those free throws. They don't have to lead, they just do what they do. Put your best players in the positions where they can excel. But the captain, like I said, they may not be the best player. They may not be the best person on the team, but they're the person who's kinda like the glue, who gels everybody together. And so those two different concepts are what I think of a real good leader. Number one, leaders eating last, and the second one being that glue who's able to look at a bird's eye view and determine what direction we need to go in, what attitude adjustment needs to happen.
I'll give you one more little anecdote that you may have heard before, say you have a bunch of people working their way through a woods cutting with axes trying to get through the woods. The manager is the one running around saying, "Hey, do you have the right ax? Do you need this sharpen? Do you need this? Let's help you out." It's still a servant role, but the leader is the one who climbs the tree and looks up and says, "Hey guys, I think we need to go in this direction." So that's the leader in my mind.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So the visionary and the person who is the cheerleader and motivator and helps bring people together towards a vision.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, so my, my dad actually told me something once that he probably got this from someone else, I'm not sure, but he said, " you know, Etienne, a leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk." And some of us are just taking a walk, but a leader is someone who people are willing to follow too. So yeah, there's lots of different facets. It's a good question.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So you mentioned curiosity before, which I think is a really important theme. And so I'm wondering how that plays into your continued growing and learning as a leader yourself. Obviously, you have had a bunch of different roles even within the industry and through various companies and I'm sure each one of them has prompted you to learn and grow in different ways. So, how do you continue to prioritize that these days?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, that's a good question. I've gotta speak to your question about curiosity first. In every role that I've been in, one of the things that's really important to me is to understand how this role that I'm working in interacts with every other role in the organization. I'll give you a quick anecdotal story, I guess, for that. I was at one company where they put me in a cubicle that was right outside the break room, and that's a terrible idea. You do not put an engineer right outside the break room. The people had to walk out of the break room and either turn left or right or go straight into my cubicle. Since I was new, they told me that my cubicle was cursed. Nobody had managed to be there for more than three months. And nobody knew why. It's just cursed.
I'm like, okay. Well, I figured out pretty quick why. It's because I started writing down how many people came into my cubicle to say hi to me, and it was in the 30 to 50 people a day and I was not getting things done. Just a few minutes with each person, and that becomes hours a day. So I realized quickly that this is a problem or an opportunity. And so I tried to treat it like an opportunity. The next engineer who came into my desk or came into my cubicle, I said, "Hey, can you help me with this thing I'm working on my spreadsheet?" And they said, "oh yeah, you just do this, and this."
And my 15 minute task turned into a one minute task. And so that happened multiple times. Pretty soon I was getting more things done than pretty much anyone else on my row. And so being curious about what that person knew was really important to me. And I realized it clicked in that role early on in my career. And I said, man, I need to learn what everybody in the company does. And so I started actually making a running list of who is everyone in the company and who do I know. And I put a check mark next to their name and I said, "okay, I gotta meet this person and find out what they know. Meet this person, find out what they know."
It wasn't all me. When I came to that company, this is actually a really fantastic practice that this manufacturing company had done. They gave me a list of every machine in the entire company. And so we had multiple buildings, you know, out there. And they said your first job is to find every machine, learn who runs it and what product it touches and how that machine interacts with that product. And that's a big homework assignment. So if I wasn't interested, that would've been hard to accomplish. So, between my situation being outside the break room and my forced interest in the manufacturing floor, I decided to make it a personal goal of mine to meet everyone in the company and to learn exactly what they do, a little bit selfishly, to see if I could make my job a little bit easier to learn what they knew and so forth. And so that really helped. And that really reinforced the importance of curiosity.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's a great story and I'm sure you looking back are also quite aware, obviously of how things evolved in your own career. But it's fun to hear it from an outside perspective and go, okay, I see how certain things that you did, maybe just because you were curious, led you to be in a position now where you are comfortable-- maybe still get nervous-- but in general comfortable talking to all sorts of different people cuz hey, you were just going around meeting everybody, learning what they do anyway.
Etienne Nichols: Oh yeah. It's crazy to look back. When we look back, we can connect the dots easily, but when you're in that soup, you're in the moment you're like, oh, my life is a mess. You're not really exactly sure. But yeah, yeah, you nailed it, that's true.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And then nowadays your continued learning and growing as a leader in the medtech industry? Yeah.
Etienne Nichols: So the way I answer that, the way I prioritize it is it's true. We all, we only have so much time in a day. It's difficult to get those things in. I try to double dip as much as possible. And so what I mean by that is, let me give an example. The best way to learn something is to teach it, right? When I was approached, I looked at myself, I said, "Etienne, you don't have what it takes to do these things." And that was just my honest assessment of myself. But I said, but I'm gonna take this on and I'm going to get what it takes.
And so, after I was in the role a little bit, I started looking at the different conferences I could potentially go to learn more about these things. And you might make the argument, okay, going to a conference. That's a continuing improvement, right? You can learn there. Well, that wasn't good enough for me. So, I have a specific story about this. There's a conference called CMX. It's the number one conference for community building, I believe. I found that and I thought, "okay, I want my company to send me to this conference, but I don't just want them to send me, I want to speak on stage, even though I've been in community for only a few months."
I'm going to come up with a problem that I've faced and a problem I've solved, and I'm going to write a proposal for me to speak at this conference. So I sent it in. I sent my proposal in and they wisely said, "no, but you can moderate a panel." I thought, "okay, well that's good enough." So I went to the industry. I moderated the panel, but because I was speaking and I was gonna be on stage, I now had access to all of the voices in the industry who were speaking. So I sent them all messages, tried to socialize with them prior to going to that event. And I now have dozens and dozens of really valuable connections in the industry to that specific subset of an industry. So that's one example.
Another example I'd give is double dipping. I gotta describe something real quick. So there's something that I learned early on. Have you ever heard of " The Seven Spoke Wheel of Life" by Zig Ziglar?
Lindsey Dinneen: I don't know that I have.
Etienne Nichols: Oh, man, you've got to check that out.
Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.
Etienne Nichols: So I learned this in college, lets see if I can remember them all. But see, he has the Seven Spoke Wheel of Life. Essentially, what he says is there's seven spokes. You have family, career, intellectual, social, financial, physical and spiritual. I think I did it unless I repeated something. So all seven of those spokes essentially make up your life.
If you have a broken spoke, you have a flat tire, just think of it that way. So I looked at that and I said, "okay, well, I go running with different people and we usually chat about the same old thing." So I said, I'm gonna start using this Seven Spoke Wheel of Life as much as possible. And so the next guy who I went running with, I told him about the seven spokes. I said, why don't we pick a different spoke every time? We'll just talk about that while we run our 10 mile run or whatever it is. And so we would do that and we'd cover more ground.
And so when I say double dip as much as possible it's making those different spokes cross over each other. So that was, let's say, intellectual. Maybe I'm gonna meet with some engineers to go running. So that's a physical thing. That's an intellectual thing. It's a social thing. I have now met three needs in one interaction. Or maybe I'll go to a coffee shop in the morning. I have a book club that I meet with every week to discuss a book that we're talking about. So there's a social interaction, there's our intellectual interaction and it forces me to be reading. If you can double dip, even the podcast-- I get to practice my public speaking. I get to extend my career perhaps. But also meet with people like you, Lindsey, and other people in the industry, and it's really fun. So double dip as much as possible and don't feel bad about it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's great advice. I really like that. I like, I like the double dip because that's a little better than multitasking, right? Because we're actually not wired to do that. But I really like your idea of combining a couple of different things together for the win. So.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, and I love that categorization. It helps me anyway to kinda have that seven spokes, so you kind of differentiate for yourselves. Okay. This truly is doing multiple things. it's beneficial for me anyway.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Just pivoting a little bit, just for fun. Imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want, doesn't necessarily have to be in your industry, but it could be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Etienne Nichols: A million dollars! Oh, okay. Well, So the thing that comes to mind for me is listening and I know it's a soft skill. And if I thought long enough, maybe I could come along something technical and specific to medtech. But for right now, listening comes to mind. So few people really listen. And sometimes I struggle with this myself, but most of the time we're just waiting for our turn to talk and you've actually done a really good job. I'm actually pretty impressed with your capability and your listening. It's really cool, Lindsey.
 But a lot of times when we think we're listening, we're coming up with that next thing to say, but instead if we're able to ditch those lines and listen with your whole body, your whole mind, your whole soul, make this person in front of you the most important person in your life. That changes everything because what I've realized is people are willing to give me the amount of attention I give them and not a whole lot more. And so, you've really gotta learn to listen to, to really succeed.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. And actually to your point, I'm curious how do you manage that as a podcast host and when you're moderating panels and things like that because part of your job does entail a certain amount of preparation. So how do you balance the two? Because you, you wanna get to the questions that are important for you, but then you also, of course, wanna be actively listening so that you can have a real conversation. Have you found a good way to balance that?
Etienne Nichols: It is really difficult. If anyone ever says moderating a panel or moderating a podcast is easy, I don't know that they really know what they're talking about. It takes a lot of focus. I go back to a quote, I guess, I think it's, was it Eisenhower who says "planning is everything, plans are nothing." And when you go to a, an interview like that or a panel is a good example. I'm glad you mentioned that. When you go to a panel, you probably have a list of questions that you want to get to, but it's hard for our brains to remember every one of those little points that we want to ask. So if you instead focus on the overarching theme that you want to cover, and this is the advice I give people, is focus on the overarching theme and then when you're talking to those people, you have your initial question, you'll ask that question and they'll answer, really listen, because most likely the gold is somewhere in that question that they asked.
I'll see if I can think of a example. If they're answering a question about the time that they, took a company public and it was pretty stressful at the time. They managed to get it public. They signed all the papers and now they're retired, but they're really excited because now they're advising other people. I'm like, okay, there's something stressful. I heard them say that. I wanna know, what did your wife think when you decided to take that public? What did your executive team, or what did the people who work for you think? I may have a list of questions, but I really want to dive in and just treat it like a conversation keeping in mind the overarching theme of the panel. So I dunno if that answers your question, but that's how I approach it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I really like that. And something that came to mind as you were talking about the overarching theme was sort of in tandem to that-- maybe the idea of what do you hope the audience will gain from it? So if you have that perspective of I want the audience to feel inspired or I want them to know more about this particular topic by the end or whatever, then that can help guide the conversation too. Especially if it doesn't go quite the way you anticipated.
Etienne Nichols: Yes. I love that you said inspired or I want to make them feel inspired because that's a really good point. I told someone this recently, man, everything on the panel you could probably Google. Sometimes there's really good tidbits, but for example, Dan Purvis and I, we did the the interview a few weeks ago and it was a fantastic interview and you could go and read his book and maybe get a lot of the anecdotes that he told us about. But you're not gonna get the feeling of passion for the industry or excitement for the future and all these things. And so, that's really what a lot of these live events will give you. It gives you a feeling to move you forward and we think, "oh, that's wishy-washy. We're technical, we're engineers," but you can't forget that we're humans. We're driven in a certain way.
And so these interactions that make our job easier, a lot of that is softer skills or softer experiences and not necessarily hard technical things. As important as those are, you have to have the things that pull you forward. So I love that you mentioned that inspiring the audience and things like that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, definitely. So speaking of inspiration, I suppose, what is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Etienne Nichols: I think it's interesting that we even want to be remembered. When I'd step outside myself and look at myself, I'm like, why do you wanna be remembered? But you do. And so I can't really get rid of that. That's fine. So when I think about that, the answer I think I would have is the strength of my kids. I heard someone say this once. See if I can remember exactly how it goes. I want my son to be the strongest man at my funeral. It's my job to make that happen. When I think of being remembered, I think about being remembered through my kids. There's another ancient writing that goes something like, "like arrows in the hands of a warrior so are the children of one's youth." So being a good dad, that's probably the most important thing to me in my life.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Etienne Nichols: Oh, It would have to be my daughter. She's 13 months old now, and if a rainbow could become a person, that person would be Darcy, my daughter.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. I love it. Oh my gosh. Thank you so very, very much for joining me today. This has been so much fun. Speaking of inspiration: lots of it, lots of great advice and your stories are fantastic. So thank you so much for sharing all of that with us.
Etienne Nichols: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much, Lindsey. I really appreciate you inviting me onto the podcast and excited to work together in the future.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Polaris Project, which is a non-governmental organization that works to combat and prevent sex and labor trafficking in North America. So I really appreciate you choosing that organization to support and just again, thank you so much. We just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Etienne Nichols: You're so welcome. Take care.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, and thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Diane Bouis | MedTech Innovator | Connection & Mentorship, ”Switching,” & Being a ”Nerd in a Suit”

Diane Bouis is a scientist-turned-startup leader and ecosystem connector with MedTech Innovator. In this episode, she shares how accelerator programs can make a big difference in the success of a medtech startup, her passion for mentoring scientists leaving academia, her unique ability to "switch" easily and effectively, and why she self-identifies as a "nerd in a suit."
Guest links: https://medtechinnovator.org/ | https://www.linkedin.com/in/diane-bouis/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 008 - Diane Bouis
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to the Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce to you as my guest today, Diane Bouis. Diane is a scientist turned startup leader and ecosystem connector. She is the director of the US Program of MedTech Innovator, which is the largest accelerator for MedTech in the world. Diane, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited you're here.
Diane Bouis: I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, I would love if you would just start by introducing us to you. Let us know a little bit about yourself and your background, kind of what led you to this industry and this field.
Diane Bouis: Thanks for that question. Quite a few years ago. I told my parents at age 14 that I wanted to become a medical scientist and solve HIV/ AIDS, and cancer. No lack of ambition there. And I'll say unfortunately, I have not managed to solve either of these two problems so far. But I became a medical scientist, did my PhD in the Netherlands and then moved to the US right after my PhD to do a postdoc at University of Michigan. So, classic scientist trajectory, you do a PhD, you go to the US to do a postdoc and then you go back to Europe to become a professor.
I'm originally from France and so, so any European country would've done, but really loved it, loved the research that I was doing in cardiovascular research and stuck around and eventually left academic research by way of an MBA. And discovered startups and discovered the fact that science and business folks don't always speak the same language. And I often jokingly describe it as the dichotomy between the scientists who look at the business people just as suits, and the business people who look at the scientists as nerds. And so I always say, I'm a nerd in a suit. I am business and science, and that's an excellent place to be. So my motivation remains to save lives, but it has broadened a little bit from two very specific diseases to saving and improving lives across the industry.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. And oh my goodness. Yeah, you were definitely ambitious right from the get-go. I love it. I love it. And I love how your path has changed along the way, but you have clearly stayed open to all sorts of different opportunities and that has led you to experience some really amazing things, and like you said, you get to be a part of a lot of different discoveries and innovations and I think that's awesome. Well, thanks for telling us a little bit about your background. I am curious what you do now and how has that all come about?
Diane Bouis: So I'll take a step back and tell you a little bit about MedTech Innovator. And I appreciate that you mentioned in your introduction. We're the largest accelerator for MedTech in the world. And MedTech Innovator has been around for a decade. I am rather new into my job. I'm less than a year with the organization, so I don't really have merit in building this fantastic organization. However, we run an accelerator program between the month of June and October. But taking that a step back to, to really where we are and what we do. We work with startups in MedTech and we define that as medical devices and healthcare IT. And we work with startups in MedTech between the seed stage and the series C, so that's a very broad swath, I would say our cohorts are roughly split in two between the earlier stages, so seed and series A. And the later stages, B and C. And we work closely with our strategic partners. MedTech Innovator is a nonprofit, and so we're not asking for equity, we're not asking folks to relocate. We are really the conduit to great partners and mentors. And that is with great names in the industry and as well as investors. Basically, we connect you to people who can help you get to the next level. That's what an accelerator does, and we do it uniquely in MedTech.
And so I run the US program. That is the largest one, the flagship one. But I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the other two programs. We have an Asia-Pacific program that Sakeena Tan runs out of Singapore. And we have a BioTools program that Ayelet Marom runs. She's also in LA and so, specifically BioTools and MedTech innovator, we're in the same geography. We are working very closely together as we are recruiting startups. BioTools is adjacent and between the two programs, sometimes the applications overlap. MedTech is anything that impacts patients, whereas the BioTools application could be a startup that is in research tools or that is in platform technologies for personalized medicine. So those are the three programs. That's that's really where we play. And I personally run the West program, which means finding great startups, soliciting applications from great startups, and then facilitating some of the review. We have fantastic partners and reviewers and judges as well as then creating the program that really helps those companies accelerate.
Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for that background, because that does provide a lot of context for our conversation and obviously for the amazing work that MedTech Innovator does and I can personally say from having attended just one event last year, that included some of the MTI companies that are part of this experience-- oh my goodness. I mean, it was so inspiring to hear from these inventors who are coming up with just amazing, life-changing devices. And wow, those stories must inspire you every day.
Diane Bouis: I agree. I always say I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business: saving or improving lives. And the inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them. And so I get to work with the greatest people.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, so you mentioned a little bit when you were talking about your background, and I think this is a great thing to touch on, there can, not always, but there can often be a little bit of a disconnect between what you referred to as suits versus, did you say nerds or geeks?
Diane Bouis: I said nerds. I self-identify as a nerd.
Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, perfect. So what have you found that has really helped bridge the gap between those two, especially for, say these brilliant scientists and nerds, who, you know, have fantastic ideas, but maybe don't have as much of the business background to really bring those ideas to market , to actually market them, so that people can actually know that they exist and things. So, how has your interconnectedness of those two elements played out through your own career and as you are now in this role.
Diane Bouis: There's a couple of things that come to mind. One: it is very hard for all of us to know what we don't know. And so if I know, I don't know something, I can seek knowledge. I can ask someone questions. I can go and find a book and read it. I can get a course. If I don't know that I don't know, something, that's much harder. And so, every single one of us can strive to uncover the unknown unknowns. And one of the ways to do that is to surround yourself with people who are somewhat different from you and who know different things than you.
And so to come back to the inventor who has found a really fascinating phenomenon or who has invented a really interesting device but may not know a good way to get it into the world, to bring it into the market. In many ways, it's a matter of asking questions because when I meet someone for the first time, I don't know if they have perhaps previously held commercialization positions and know what they're talking about or not. And so asking questions: " who would use this? Do you know what the need is out there?" Depending on the situation and the level of comfort, it crystallizes to "who cares?" but saying, "who cares?" can feel adversarial. And so you've gotta pick your words wisely there.
But asking questions and learning and than bringing up the concept of the unknown unknowns to simply put that out there, you, and I say you in this case, to an inventor, maybe the world leader in a particular area of science. And while during my days in the lab, I was definitely very conversant in my particular scientific niche, I also recognize that there are areas of science that I'm not that conversant about, and so everybody understands that they're very good at something and maybe less good at other things. And so just opening that conversation. Once we both agree, maybe you don't quite know how to get to market, then we can have the conversation around, "okay, well what are the resources available to you here and elsewhere to learn about this and to learn what you might be missing?" And then sometimes I can connect someone to resources, accelerators are a good one, but very often there's grant funding opportunities. There are local economic development entities. There are other entrepreneurs. There are entrepreneurial organizations from whom you might be able to learn a thing or two. We learn a lot from our peers and so even recognizing that you may need a peer group can be helpful.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. So I'm curious, is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career for you?
Diane Bouis: I will say for me, there have been several interesting moments of change and getting into accelerators was not an obvious choice. While a lot of our world was was slowing down due to the pandemic, I had the opportunity to help someone I know design a curriculum for a digital health accelerator and had a ton of fun with that. That person knew that I've done programming. I co-founded a healthcare hackathon nonprofit. I've run events that help healthcare innovators in many different ways. And so they knew that I could help with that and and so I did. And I had a ton of fun designing a curriculum and running a curriculum. And while that was supposed to be a one-off during the pandemic in my spare time, I recognized I had a ton of fun with it. And I think whenever, in our careers we realize, I'm doing something that is valuable, that people appreciate and that I'm really enjoying, ask yourself, is there a job where I can do more of that or where I can do that all the time? And so I, I did what any reasonable person would do. I Googled top "10 medtech accelerators." Lo and behold, as you would imagine the top result was MedTech Innovator and I had run across some social media posts from MedTech Innovator before so it wasn't completely new, but I thought, "gee, that seems to be the right organization for me, let me reach out to them." And I'm very fortunate that a little over a year later, here I am.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. What a great story. Do more of what you love when you can. Well, now obviously you have held a variety of different positions throughout your career, and it sounds like leadership has been a running thread, and so I'm curious, how would you define leadership or what does leadership mean to you?
Diane Bouis: I would say leadership is defining a shared goal and aligning one's self and one's actions to it, which then in turn also means aligning a team towards those goals. And so when the goals are very clear, we can all move in unison towards them. A friend of mine once said, "just hire great people and get out of the way." And I think that is correct, but that only works if you have a great shared vision where everybody intuitively knows we're all moving in this direction, therefore this is the correct action even if I don't have the opportunity to ask you for direct feedback. And so give a lot of feedback in the beginning and then align to that shared vision that we're all pursuing. So, to summarize, set a shared vision and and then go after it together.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Very good. Yeah. And then what would be your best piece of advice for someone who maybe is early on in their career or is looking for the next step or whatnot, then they're interested in obtaining a leadership role within the medtech industry. What would you say to someone who might be wanting to do that?
Diane Bouis: The advice I always give to my mentees is, of course, get your name out there. And so say yes to opportunities, even if it's not immediately obvious how they will benefit you and in ways that are somewhat transparently self-serving. When you have opportunities to, for example, participate in ecosystem events. When you can give advice to a budding startup, when you have an opportunity to be on a panel or in a speaking role at a conference, those are ways in which you can showcase your leadership in the field, showcase the leadership, thought leadership of your organization. That's one of the ways a rising manager, a rising person in our industry really can get out there. I would also highly recommend joining professional organizations and joining a committee. It is about giving back to the industry, but it is also about the other members of that committee. We are at the same time, a large industry as well as an industry small enough where you will encounter people again, maybe not next year, but maybe 2, 3, 5 years from now. And so, be a good citizen and involve yourself in things that are directly useful to you professionally, as well as not immediately useful to you, but perhaps useful to others. It's a great practice to grow oneself, but it's also leading by example for the people you work with. Just because telling people to do something is one, doing it is the other. People will observe what you do and what you prioritize and will make similar choices.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. So, being a model, even if you are not yet in that position, but you are modeling the kinds of behavior that a good leader would want to exude anyway, so you can start doing that no matter what your job title is or where you are in your career.
Diane Bouis: I would agree especially , with the complexities in the MedTech industry, nobody knows everything and we sometimes don't know what other people know. And so, speaking up when you have knowledge that could benefit someone, is really helpful. I consider that as I still mentor scientists leaving academia. I consider that one of the biggest differences between academia and the business world. In academia, you only speak up when you truly know. In the business world, nobody has time for that, to wait until the last person might have gotten enough data to make a call. And so if you know something, speak up. There's opportunity to be heard. And if you have something to contribute, it would be a mistake to not contribute it. Together, we can truly make a bigger difference than individually.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that advice. And I'm curious because you've mentioned you don't know what you don't know, adopting kind of a growth mindset and your own continuous learning and growing as a person. And I'm curious, as a leader, how do you prioritize your own learning and growing?
Diane Bouis: While I was still a scientist and contemplating getting an MBA, a friend of mine who had walked that path from PhD to MBA before suggested spending 10 to 20% of one's time on personal growth and personal growth is sometimes giving back to the ecosystem. So sometimes that's giving somebody else career advice, but also spending time reading something that is not directly pertinent to your work. And so, it can be a newsletter from a different industry. It can be a scientific article, it can be a book. Often concepts from other industries can really help. And so, making sure that you take the time to grow yourself beyond just the ability to make interesting small talk at the next conference, but really thinking about what the future looks like, the future of our industry, but your personal future and the world can lead to choices of books, of courses, of where is the world going to be in 10 years, and where do I want to be in 10 years? And the answers to those questions should lead to a couple of steps to do every week, every month to keep growing.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Good advice. Thank you for sharing that. So for fun, imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It doesn't have to be in your industry. It absolutely could be if you'd like, what would you choose to teach and why?
Diane Bouis: I think, I would enjoy designing a masterclass in switching, and that might sound funny at first, but I have come to realize that is something that I happen to be quite good at and that not everybody else is good at. And switching for me can be switching between different industries. I've worked industry agnostic almost for the past decade while I come from the biomedical sector. And so I can bring an analogy out of agricultural technology or petroleum refining that someone in the medical industry may not have thought about. So that's switching in terms of switching industries. But far more personally, I happen to be a speaker of several languages. I speak both French and German to my parents, and that's where the accent is from that, that usually tricks somebody up. So it's worth saying. And what I've realized since a very young age is many people speak languages quite well. I happen to be really good at switching and translating in real time, and so I can keep up a conversation with 2, 3, 4 people in 2, 3, 4 different languages simultaneously. And so switching is often the hard part and learning and teaching to really seamlessly go from one language to another or one area of science or a business to another, I think is a useful skill more of us could have. Now I would need at least a month to actually really design that course, but it would be a ton of fun. I think I'd enjoy that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, well I love that. That sounds like a wonderful skill to have. It peaked my curiosity a little bit because you had mentioned before that transition and for yourself and helping other people with a transition from say, the academic world for scientists or whoever to transition out of that. And I'm wondering for yourself or the people that you mentor, and this is a huge, I would think, shift for anyone. I mean, I've undergone various shifts as well, and it's sometimes it kind of impacts your identity. Do you find that's a component, that is something that you would talk about, say in your masterclass or even that you talk about in real life in your mentoring other people? Is that a component of it that you have found has been something to consider as you're making these life changes, these switches?
Diane Bouis: Absolutely. That's a really great question. We spend the largest part of our waking time at work, and so what we do professionally largely defines us, for better or worse, and that also means that if we make substantial changes that will almost invariably impact how we see ourselves and how others see us. And both of those, how we see ourselves and how others see us have a big impact on our psyche and how we perform in what we do. So it's important to be cognizant of that. And for me, that first step was leaving academic science. I'd been a scientist for a decade, and so "I am a scientist" stops being true when you're an MBA student. So then you're a former scientist, but you haven't quite arrived to, what am I now? And so, so, how do you define yourself? And I will often say "I'm lean startup" and working with startups is far more who I am these days and how I define myself. So helping startups is really the nutshell. But how we define ourselves is important. And it's important to spend some time on it because what we signal to the world, and especially people earlier in their careers, where you have been is evident from your resume, but who you want to be your next step is yours to tell. And so that is really important. And the past informs the future, but doesn't automatically define it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a subject that is not talked about a lot. But it is so important because it is, it's a huge component of making those switches and being able to make those switches effectively in terms of how you see yourself and like you said, how others see you. It does play a role and so it's nice to have honest conversations about that and, " let's think through that. Let's work through that." Thank you for sharing that. What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Diane Bouis: I would say probably for caring. I care deeply and so most people and organizations and startups I interact with I cannot help but care, but that also often means I lean in and I, I truly do want to help sometimes in unconventional ways. Startups are unconventional, so caring. I think if there's one thing to be remembered for, it would be caring.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That is a wonderful thing to be remembered for. And then final question. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Diane Bouis: I would say what fills me with joy and therefore makes me smile-- but it is a more profound feeling of joy-- it is good people coming out of the woodwork when asked. That is the very definition of community. Somebody needs help and asks, and the community comes to the rescue. I am part of a number of local communities, obviously with MedTech Innovator, for example, we just had a call earlier today with a 2022 cohort. So those are folks, most of them I haven't seen since October. And about 25 or so of the startups, of the 50 startups that went through the cohort, showed up just for updates. But then there's always someone who has a question as in, "Hey, have you heard of this conference? Hey, do you know someone who can help with this? Hey, do you know about this?" And there's always somebody who has an answer. And so it's community. It is asking for help and receiving help. That'll make my day every day of the week.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. What a great answer. I just absolutely love that. Well, I just wanna say thank you so, so very much for your time today. Thank you for sharing your advice, your insight a little bit more about MedTech Innovator and everything that they provide to this industry. I just really appreciate it. We are very honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. That was Diane's choice of an organization to support. And I just wanna say thank you so very much for doing that, Diane, and we just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. So thank you again so much for being here today.
Diane Bouis: Thank you very much for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, and thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Frank Jaskulke | Medical Alley | Public Speaking, Making Connections, & Being Comfortable with Discomfort

Frank Jaskulke is the VP of Intelligence at Medical Alley, leading the company's startup and global business platforms. He discusses how he got involved ("serendipitously") in the medtech industry, how Minneapolis became known as the United States' "Medical Alley," why he's comfortable with discomfort, and why he advocates that everyone take public speaking classes. 
Guest links: www.medicalalley.org
Charity supported: ASPCA
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 007 - Frank Jaskulke
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to the Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Frank Jaskulke. Frank is the VP of Intelligence at Medical Alley, a consortium of 800 plus global healthcare companies. He leads the company's startup and global business platforms. Thank you so much for being here today, Frank.
Frank Jaskulke: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be on the podcast.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I'm so thrilled that you are here. Well, if you are willing, I would love for you to share just a little bit about you and your background. How did you get into this industry?
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah. I got into this industry coming up on 18 years ago now, totally serendipitously. Out of college, I was working at our state capital, was just a page, the entry level staff job. And I got assigned to our commerce committee, which at the time was working on legislation to fund joint research between Mayo Clinic and the University of Minnesota on the topic of genomics. I found that interesting, learned a bit more about it. And when session ended, I needed to find another job until the next session, stumbled on Medical Alley. And honest to God, I got a job at Medical Alley the same day as I got a job at Home Depot across the street from our office and Medical Alley had health insurance. So I went with that and here we are, 18 years later.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word. Oh my goodness. What a great story. Okay, so very different potential career paths, and you went with Medical Alley. And obviously that turned out to be a great fit for you, but tell me a little bit about growing up. Was MedTech or healthcare something of particular interest? Was it a family interest or sort of what led you to say, yes, this could be the right choice? Even not knowing that you'd be with them 18 years.
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah, on the background of it, nothing would suggest this is where I would end up. No family history of it. My mom's a teacher and an artist. My dad's a mechanic. I studied American Indian law in school. Like, that was my focus and that is a family thing. But coming out of the session, landing at Medical Alley, what I learned very quickly was we have this community in Minnesota of healthcare leaders, you know, Mayo, Medtronic, United Health Group, 3M, and so many others, that it's kind of, it's the hometown team. If you are gonna be in healthcare, This is a really good place to do it. And I fell in love over time with all of the innovation and the creativity and most importantly, the commitment that the people had. These are all people who are super smart. They could go do anything, they could go do a lot of other things and make more money, have a less stressful life, but they choose to be in this industry and to do the work, whether it's as a doctor or nurse, or as an engineer, as a business leader. Because they choose that, I just found there was such a deep passion and being around that is motivating and enlivening.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so can you tell me a little bit about your career progression, even through Medical Alley? Where did you start and what are you up to today?
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah. I started at the front desk, was the receptionist and staff assistant. At the time, opening the mail, sending faxes. The way we promoted most of our activities was to send the fax to our member companies. It still weirds me out to think when I started, I didn't have a smartphone. I didn't have a computer for work at home, and we were sending faxes and that-- I'm not that old, it wasn't that long ago. But how quickly it changes. But the thing that really kept me was, I got lucky early on and I had a boss, woman by the name of Liz Rammer and a CEO, a guy by the name of Don Gerhardt, who just passed away a couple of months ago, who were totally on board with, bring smart people in and let 'em try things out. So from day one, they were having me meet with the companies. They were having me join in legislative sessions. They got me involved in the different aspects of the business. And when I wanted to try something, they let me try it and if I stumbled, they'd let me stumble and then they'd help me out. And for 18 years now as I've progressed up the organization, that has been a truism of Medical Alley as a company, that we've always had leadership who embraces bringing in smart, creative people with diverse backgrounds and then unleashing 'em and letting them figure things out, being there to help 'em. But you know, saying, if you wanna do it, go for it.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That sounds like an absolutely perfect company culture in terms of allowing individuals to grow and be themselves and make mistakes and learn from 'em. I think that's pretty amazing. I can see why you've been there for that long.
Frank Jaskulke: It's not that we don't have challenges, but on that one aspect, I think we've done it really well and it's paid off. Former coworkers who are running businesses, have started companies, are executives in other healthcare organizations, have gone into the legislature. We have a state senator that came out of our office. Like great people have come in, done great work and then gone on to bigger things along their journey.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that is fantastic. Well, I'm curious, is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career for you, that being in the medtech industry was your path?
Frank Jaskulke: I don't know if there was an exact moment, but I do know the string of moments. There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives. That simple. That we go and meet with the CEOs of startups, of big companies, of hospitals, of insurance companies, drug companies, and we listen to their problems, and then we come up with creative solutions to resolve those problems as an industry, right? Instead of you having to solve the same problem I had to solve, we solve it once. Once that clicked, it became really easy. I'm gonna hang out with smart people doing great things and my work is gonna make it easier for them to do more great things.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I can understand that. And that brings up an interesting question, presumably-- although you'll have to tell me from your own experience-- but presumably, I would imagine it may have taken a little bit of time to grow into being comfortable in that role. I mean, was this something that you were just naturally extroverted or-- whatever the right word would be-- confident enough to just go into those conversations and, tackle them with ease or is that some element of the job that, you did sort of grow into?
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah, definitely grew into. I'm very introverted. Confidence wanes by the day, right? Sometimes good, sometimes not. But I've never been afraid to be wrong. The idea of the more you're wrong, the more likely you are to learn something, I've always embraced. And so I was super comfortable going into meetings and just saying, "I don't know what you're talking about. What does this mean? What's important to you?" And I took advantage of, especially early on in my career-- I was very young, relatively fresh outta school-- a lot of the CEOs were very open to the idea of they wanted to pay it forward, help the next generation, and were willing to just share their knowledge and help me learn more quickly. So the, definitely not confidence, not extraversion, but just purely being interested and being okay with being wrong. Probably longer than most people are comfortable with being wrong.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. And so can you share a little bit about how Medical Alley does assist its members? I know you have a whole membership platform. I know you do a lot of educational material, you hold events, but I would love to hear from your perspective. Why do people, why do companies want to be a part of Medical Alley and how do you all work together to better the industry?
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah. So companies fundamentally get involved for two reasons. One is they care about their ecosystem and community. They wanna make sure that there is this healthcare and health technology industry, particularly in Minnesota, for the next generation. The other reason is they need help for themselves, for their company. They have challenges they're confronting. That they understand can be better resolved together than individually. So the, fundamental operating model of Medical Alley I would describe as, convening to solve common challenges.
So back up just a moment. Medical Alley is the only group in the country that has healthcare providers, healthcare payers, and the technology firms, medical device, biopharma, diagnostic and digital health as co-equal partners in the consortium. By doing that, we're able to get these sometimes conflicting groups. I develop a device. I need a payer to pay for it. I need a provider to use it. The payer's trying to manage costs and outcomes. The provider is trying to grow patient volume and deliver better quality. Sometimes those things are aligned, sometimes they're not. We're the only group that can bring that whole ecosystem together and work on getting to better alignment, to ultimately deliver better patient outcomes at lower cost. And what we recognized a long time ago, and this goes back to Earl Bach and one of their founders who was also the founder of Medtronic. He recognized that there were often problems that a company would have that a lot of other companies had as well. And instead of one company solving that problem and then another company having to solve it, and another having to solve it, and a lot of wasted resources that don't help the patient get better. He brought the industry together and said, "Hey, we could identify those problems, distribute our resources and work on them collectively. And we'll more rapidly remove those roadblocks and we'll be able to help more patients as a result." And that is still the rallying cry today. Bring this industry together to solve some of the most challenging problems in healthcare that haven't been solved when we've operated separately, when it's only been hospitals or only medical device, or only the insurance companies. We think if we come together as an industry that's all of healthcare, we can have a bigger impact.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I know that the organization does a lot of good for a lot of people. So thank you for being here and for being so supportive of the medtech, the healthcare, all of those industries. That is really an amazing thing. So it's cool to hear from an insider perspective too, exactly what you all are passionate about and why you're here. So thank you for sharing that.
Frank Jaskulke: Oh yeah. Thank you.
Lindsey Dinneen: And then how would you define leadership? Or what does leadership mean to you?
Frank Jaskulke: I always feel like that's one of those questions that we all should have an easy path answer, but it's really hard. I think, for me at least, leadership means one working on things that matter. There are lots and lots of things we could do. There aren't as many things that we should do. And so I think leaders are the kind of people, regardless of where they are in an organization, that get us focused on what we should do. I think the second thing is, I would have always the idea of leaders make leaders. That the true sign of a good leader is the people that come out of their mentorship in support and development and become better leaders than you know, the person they were working with.
And then maybe the last piece, I think a lot about is, not just being the person willing to make the hard decisions, but being the person who enables your colleagues or your team members to make hard decisions and not worry about it. And I think we've all been in that situation. If something didn't go quite right, then now we gotta tell the boss about it and we're worried about the consequence. I think leadership is creating an environment in which when mistakes happen or when hard decisions have to be made, it's recognized, it's celebrated, it's accepted, not denigrated or punished.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and for folks who might be interested, maybe, especially people that are younger in their careers, what is your best piece of advice for that person who is interested in obtaining a leadership role within the medtech industry?
Frank Jaskulke: Ah, learn how to manage sideways and manage up, early. And by that I mean, I see a lot of people who get really hung up on proving their worth and showing like how good they are at a thing or how valuable they are. And you realize, eventually if you get into a management or a leadership role that like the great ones are the ones who help others be better, not who do great work themselves. And so that, early on, learning about how you help others do their work better, how you help elevate your team members and your leaders and your company. I think that's one of the fastest tracks to then become a leader including the promotions and the pay and the title and all of that stuff that goes with it. Because ultimately that's the leader's job. They're not the one necessarily out making the sale or building the project, but they are marshaling the resources and getting the teams motivated to accomplish things they didn't think were possible. That can be done very junior in an organization. You can make others around you better by your presence and by your leadership, regardless of your title or your role in a job.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's true. I think there's a lot of perhaps, haziness, around the idea of a leader. And I think you're right, it doesn't have to be in your job title or even your job description. You don't have to be, directly managing people underneath you are leading people underneath you. You can be a leader in your own right. And set a good example and make a difference without necessarily having the title to match it yet. There are still many opportunities.
Frank Jaskulke: And that's a really good thing you said about setting the example, like modeling the type of culture we wanna have in an organization can be a very powerful part of leadership regardless of your level in an organization. Living the values, making decisions based on those values, and helping others to do the same. But, and I think it's, it sometimes is a big mindset shift for people to make. You know, when you're in an individual contributor role to a great degree, you are measured on what you deliver in the work. Whereas a leader or a manager is measured on what their team delivers or what the organization delivers. And so getting that early mindset of" I'm gonna model those behaviors, I'm gonna help the others around me to be better." I think that's how you get on the rocket ship.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, and to that point, something that you mentioned earlier, which I really loved was that you essentially, when you were having those initial meetings with CEOs and whatnot early on in your career, and you weren't coming from a place of extroversion or confidence, but you were coming from a place of curiosity and genuine interest and a willingness to learn. And I love that. I think that that's a wonderful trait because it can help you continue to learn and grow your whole life. But I'm curious, how do you prioritize your continued learning and growing as a leader today?
Frank Jaskulke: Oh yeah. I don't think it's a matter of prioritization. Learning just has to be all the time. You know, if you're not learning, I don't think you're getting ahead. The world changes far too much. This community and industry is so complex. There's always something new to learn. But then I think even more importantly, it's the mindset of being a learner. You know, if you have a fixed mindset, a mindset of scarcity, you're gonna have a hard time, I think, getting ahead in this world and making a real meaningful impact. Versus a mindset of abundance, of we can make more, and of being open to new ideas and new perspectives, new ways of approaching a problem. So, like for me, learning is my hobby and I don't have other hobbies. I don't play sports. I don't do art. I don't do other stuff. I talk to smart people, ask them questions and learn from them. And I always think of " How to Win Friends and Influence" guide.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Dale Carnegie.
Frank Jaskulke: Dale Carnegie. Thank you. He had a line in the book where he is " the best way to be interesting is to be interested."
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.
Frank Jaskulke: And if I had a life motto, it'd be that. I am just interested in anything and everything, and that has been the difference maker. So it's never a prioritization. It just always is.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So I suppose that in your capacity in getting to continue to interview people because you're also a podcast host. Yeah, I was gonna say, so you get paid to do this, is basically the wonderful aspects of your job.
Frank Jaskulke: Bingo. Yep. And that is why I get passionate. I am paid to every day learn something, if not some things new. And by doing that it works out. And I mean, in a lot of ways it's kind of an old sales thing, right? Like people don't like to be sold, but people like to buy stuff. People may not want to hear your story, but people love telling their story. I want people to tell their story, I want to hear their stories, I wanna learn from it. And then that actually makes the business work even better.
Lindsey Dinneen: Are there any particular episodes or moments from an episode that really stand out to you in terms of either light bulb moment or a story that just kind transfixed you or something? I'm always curious what about from your perspective, are those moments?
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah we've had some fun ones over the years. Recently we had Dr. Bill Maurice, who runs Mayo Clinic Laboratories, and during the pandemic became very prominent because he's a massive, massive sports guy. And he started going on some of sports radio shows to talk about Covid and talk about vaccination. And this is an MD PhD, incredibly smart person, but who also is really into hockey and basketball and football and everything. He was able to connect with a group of people who were not as receptive to the traditional way of communicating about public health and vaccination. And have honest, thoughtful, open conversations about what was going on. And I would argue I probably made as big of a public health impact as anyone as a result. And it, it just really struck me how humble and honest and authentic he was about it. You know, It wasn't an air for him, it was legitimately him and he was excited to be on ESPN sports radio programs, like he was nerding out about it and able to then make a public health impact. So that has stuck with me.
The other one I've always liked, and I've interviewed her a couple of times, Lee Jones, who is the co-founder of a company called Rebiotix, and a longtime Medical Alley board member. She was a Medtronic executive in the medical device industry and started a biotech company in a state that is not known for biotech. But what's crazy, when they started the company, she thought she was starting a medical device company, and so it set it up as a medical device company, did all the normal stuff, and then the FDA said, "actually, you're a drug." And they had to pivot on the fly from a device company to a drug company. And the way she handled that pivot, the people she got involved, she was doing remote and hybrid work back in 2015 with this well before it was much of a trend. That company got FDA approval in September last year. They had a nice exit, great return for the investors, and hearing her story of a successful entrepreneur, a corporate executive, and pivoting from med device to drug and just going with it, I have found very inspiring.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is amazing. Wow. Well, on a bit of a less serious note, so I've always wondered this, why Minnesota, why is Minnesota Medical Alley, just out of curiosity. I think Minneapolis is a cool city, but I'm just curious, what is the attraction? How did that become what it is?.
Frank Jaskulke: The honest to God, glib answer, but it's correct, is two things: the Mayo brothers stopped in Rochester 150 years ago, and Earl Bachan was born in Northeast Minneapolis. That was it. Like it wasn't planned. It wasn't a grand design, it was, Earl Bachan born here, started the modern medical device industry, Mayo brothers here, start the modern healthcare system and then we doubled down on it. The industry existed. And then we had thoughtful leadership, Earl Bachan, the Mayo Clinic leadership, a guy named Lee Berlin who came out of 3M, and at the time, Governor Rudy Perpich, back in 1984, they got together and they said, "Hey, we have something here we should build on it." So they created Medical Alley, the company, to organize and promote the industry. So we got lucky. And then if anyone out there, if you've read "Good to Great," we capitalized on our luck, right? We maximized our return on luck by doubling down on the industry, building it up, and creating an environment where if you're here, if you're doing medical device, you're gonna find the workforce, you're gonna find the suppliers, you're gonna find the investors, and you're gonna find the companies that might buy your company. If you're in digital health, you're gonna find the same thing. And increasingly, that's even becoming true if you're doing a biopharma startup here. Over time, a complete ecosystem is built up. But as Warren Buffet used to say, "we hit the genetic lottery" in having Earl Bachan born here and having the Mayo brothers stop here.
Lindsey Dinneen: Very nice. Okay. There we go. Now I know. Well, speaking of not quite as serious questions, but imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want-- does not have to be in your industry-- absolutely anything. What would you choose to teach and why?
Frank Jaskulke: Oh, that, that's easy. I would teach a class on the fundamentals of public speaking. Yeah. It's a skill that, no matter what you do, whether it's big business, a nonprofit, government, anywhere, public speaking, communication is so fundamental and a lot of people are scared by it. And then there's a lot of people who aren't scared by it, but do it poorly. And, harm their ability to drive their cause forward. So yeah, I'd do that one for free, but I'd certainly do it for a million dollars.
Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Well, okay, so that does generate a follow-up question then. Did you take extensive public training courses or classes or Toastmasters or anything like that? Or is your own experience over the years led you to a place where you would be confident in teaching a class.
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah. In high school I got very lucky and was recruited onto the debate team, had no idea what it would be about, fell in love with it and then joined the speech team and that has been more useful and a bigger contributor to my success professionally and personally than my undergraduate degree, than my graduate degree, than anything I've done. High school speech and debate is the best thing I've done in my education.
Lindsey Dinneen: Agreed. Yeah. I will second that. I actually also did speech and debate in high school . Yeah. And I do agree it is one of those, or two, of those classes or activities that you can do that actually do carry over substantially throughout your life, so.
Frank Jaskulke: Anyone out there if you've got kids that are thinking about stuff, it is well worth encouraging your kids to check it out. It is such a force multiplier.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Agreed. What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Frank Jaskulke: I don't really care if I'm remembered or not. It kind of gets to the why, like the only thing I'm really interested in is that the impact happens. Whether or not people know I had a part in it, I'm okay with, I'll know.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Okay. And then final question. What's one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it? .
Frank Jaskulke: Oh, that's easy. That'd be my cats. We've got two cats, Astra and Zeneca. They're getting up there in age, but they're still, get home. They come and welcome me. Sleep on the bed all night. If days are warm or cold, they're always there. The cats.
Lindsey Dinneen: Aw. Well that's amazing. And it sounds like they're actually rather social for cats cause I think sometimes that's at risk.
Frank Jaskulke: Yeah. They're a little bit dog-like in how like clingy they can be. Um, not the aloof cats that we normally would think.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my gosh. Now, did you grow up with cats or was that something that you had, as an adult or where'd your love of cats come from?
Frank Jaskulke: I've always had pets. Yeah. We always had at least two cats and at least one dog forever.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. Well, Frank, I just wanna say, this was so much fun to hear about you and your background, why you're passionate about the industry, what Medical Alley has done, not only for you personally, which is wonderful, but obviously for the world, how it's impacting lives. So I just wanna say thank you for sharing all of those stories and the behind the scenes. I love hearing that. And we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which is dedicated to preventing animal cruelty in the United States. We really appreciate, Frank, you choosing that organization to support and thank you just again, so very much for your time here today. It was so much fun to talk to you and get the behind the scenes, and I just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Frank Jaskulke: Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on and letting me share a bit about what we're up to, and I appreciate that Velentium is collecting these good stories to share more broadly, and has been a part of the Medical Alley community. And to everyone out there, thank you for listening to this story and helping to spread it. Medical Alley is always here at your service.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Thank you again, Frank, and thank you also to our listeners for tuning in, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Shannon Clark | Founder of UserWise | Human Factors Engineering, History, & Her Entrepreneurship Journey

Shannon Clark is the founder and principal of UserWise, a consultancy that helps medical device manufacturers and startups to design safe and easy-to-use medical devices. In this episode, Shannon discusses her experience founding her company, the importance of human factors engineering, her love of history, and why she's so happy about her recent "demotion."
Guest link: www.UserWiseConsulting.com
Charity supported: Equal Justice Initiative
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 006 - Shannon Clark
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to the Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host Lindsay, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Shannon Clark.
Shannon is founder and principal of UserWise, a consultancy that helps medical device manufacturers and startups to design safe and easy to use medical devices. Before founding UserWise in 2014, Shannon was a human factors engineer at Intuitive Surgical and Abbott Laboratories. Shannon graduated from UCLA with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and a technical breadth in technology management. Shannon is additionally a certified professional industrial engineer, holds two patents and has written and published three books. Clearly an absolute rockstar, thank you so much for being here, Shannon.
Shannon Clark: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I would love, if you don't mind just sharing a little bit about your background and maybe how you got to where you are. I know, you've gotten to do some really amazing things. You have an amazing company. I would just love to hear a little bit of that backstory.
Shannon Clark: How far back should we go? I think it's interesting that on my application to USC, I ended up going to UCLA, but I did apply and get into USC, just for the record, and on my application. I said that my dream job, I was 17 years old, would be to run a product design firm in Spain. It's pretty interesting that I kind of ended up there and I kind of had that idea so early on, but I didn't really fall in love with human factors or even know about it until I was working at Abbott Laboratories and I had this unique opportunity to apprentice one of the world's leading experts in human factors named Ed Israelski. He was the Director of Human Factors for Abbott for many years, and laid all the groundwork for the international standards and it informed the FDA guidances around human factors, so it was a really unique opportunity to work for him. And from there I was able to really dive into human factors with that practical experience at Abbott. And I knew that I wanted to run my own company basically. And I think I, I finally made it there in 2014 when I saw some great opportunities to help fledgling companies out of Stanford Biodesign and Fogerty Institute for Innovation. And I started out with just myself consulting, and then from there built a practice and pretty soon it was 30 human factors engineers, recruiters, and operational staff as of 2022.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That is amazing. Congratulations. That's, that is no small accomplishment. That is amazing. So human factors engineering specifically wasn't necessarily, it sounds like, the first intention that you may have had going into school. So it's awesome to hear that having that experience is what sort of led you into your career path, but I'm kind of curious, were you always very technically minded, kind of interested in user experience growing up or what was, even going back a little further, what was the spark that interested you in that field in general?
Shannon Clark: Well, I had actually never heard of engineering. My mom's a lawyer, my dad's an accountant. So I didn't know what engineering was going into college, and so I was gonna, study Latin or Spanish or something. But then I thought I don't really know what I'm gonna do after college if I study that. And I had an uncle who was an engineer who said, "you really should check this out." So I took some coursework and I thought I could probably do this. And to be honest, mechanical engineering was a big struggle for me, having not taken any of the AP courses. I took AP Latin, AP Music Theory, all the APs that you don't need for engineering. So I came into school pretty behind and feeling behind, but I made it through and I kind of had my eye on this goal of making user experiences easier for people. I was going back even further, I was really inspired by my uncle Peter Skillman, who's now with Phillips I think in their Design Center of Excellence. And he worked at IDO at the time and he was 35 years old and contributed to this project that was featured on 60 Minutes to redesign a shopping cart.
And it was really inspiring to me at the age of 10 or seven or however old I was, to watch someone take something so mundane as a shopping cart and uncover all these issues that exist with shopping carts everywhere, and then completely rethink the design and improve it. And rewatching that video I can now kind of see with another lens that they even started on the basis of safety and designed for safety, which I believe is so important when prioritizing design efforts to think about, " well, how many injuries are there to toddlers every year in shopping carts and how can we address this and how can we make it better?" And then just a month ago, I actually had my toddler in a shopping cart and she got stuck because the seatbelt wouldn't unlatch. And then it made me think that's interesting, full circle.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that is interesting. Oh, the irony. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So designing for safety first. So I'd love to hear the evolution of you just starting this consultancy by yourself. And I mean, so you were literally doing all the things, you were marketing, you were doing the actual consulting, you were doing the accounting, I'm assuming. How did that all evolve and how did your leadership ability evolve as you've grown your business?
Shannon Clark: Well, I started out with no management experience, quite young. I started out with just myself. I hired some contractors here and there in 2015 . 2016, hired my first employee and I gotta tell you, I was the worst manager. And she was like, patient zero, she's now at Intuitive Surgical. But I think overall it was a great step in her career, but good for her for getting through, I think, four years of reporting to me as I was learning to be a manager. And I think over time through trial and error, I became a better manager. That was sort of a learning experience for me. And something that people were always telling me as I was starting my company was, " you should learn on someone else's dime. Don't start a company and then learn these hard lessons on your own dime."
But I'm happy that I didn't listen to them and sure there were a lot of really expensive life lessons, like the time we didn't expense $150,000 of expenses because I didn't realize that someone wasn't doing their job for four months. There's all kinds of things that happen as you're start a company. But you just have to learn from them and then embed processes to address any gaps that you uncover along the way. And so at this point, we're just such a strong company with so many internal processes and trainings and rigor, and it's really exciting to see how much it's matured over the past eight years.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you recently, in fact, had a bit of a transition even for yourself, for your role. Is that correct?
Shannon Clark: Yes, we brought in a new CEO. I was able to secure significant private equity investment from a private equity firm called NaviMed. And so we're forming a new umbrella organization called ClariMed. And so that's sort of a broader quality by design thesis where we're bringing together a bunch of like-minded organizations to help support product development, specifically in the medical space. And we're starting that organization with two human factors consultancies. So it started with UserWise, my company, which was acquired in August of 2022. And then in January this year, 2023, we acquired Harvey Medical, which is a seven or eight person human factors consultancy in the UK and the Netherlands. So, that's where we're at today and I'm thrilled. I, I probably put on LinkedIn that I'm thrilled about this quote- unquote "demotion" to Principal Human Factors Engineer, 'cause previously I was Director of Human Resources, CFO, CEO, and Principal Human Factors Engineer, and it was a lot. Yeah. Let's just say I didn't get a maternity leave. But now I'm just really excited for the future and I have a CEO with 17 years experience running and growing a regulatory consultancy. So I, I'm just really excited to report to her and she's an inspiration to me every day, Kelly Kendall.
Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. That's fantastic. How has the transition been for you? Did it take a lot of transition or did it come easily? How was it for you?
Shannon Clark: It's been a huge transition, cuz Kelly runs the business based on data and I think when you have investors involved, you have to really present a lot of data to them. Whereas before I didn't have to report to anyone or speak to anyone or ask anyone any questions about what I'm doing, which I think we're a lot better off now cause I'm not just making decisions as I go along. I have a, a whole support system to help me through all the decisions on a day-to-day basis. So, that's been really relaxing to share the responsibility and, and have support. But yeah, it's been a lot of work to try to come up with the data. We're trying to integrate Salesforce. We're just kind of like a small company, quickly growing, so there's a lot there to work on.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm curious, is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it kind of clearly confirmed that this was the right career path for you or the correct industry?
Shannon Clark: It just immediately clicked. Back when I was working for Ed Israelski at Abbott and contributing to standards committees and submitting feedback to the FDA and draft guidances on behalf of Abbott, all of that work really created a spark within me, I'd say. And I think I would pinpoint it on one project I worked on, which was to review all recalls of medical devices by the FDA over the course of time that were due to human error. So, for example, an automated external defibrillator that was on the market, I think this was 2009, where there was a low battery indicator that would blink and falsely cause individuals to cease use of the device unnecessarily. So the idea that they were confusing this red indicator light to mean, "oh, this is broken, don't use it," versus "it's just low battery. Change the battery when you have a chance, but you could have resuscitated the patient."
And I wrote this 80 page internal report. All these events that had happened and it really brought to life the importance of the then new FDA focus on human factors. And the fact that you need to really intentionally bake safety into the design of products from the get-go. It's not something you can just add on post-market or even figure out through human factors validation at the end of the process. It's something that you need to think about constantly throughout design, and again, prioritize those design efforts according to risk and safety and according to patient harm and user harm so that you can, at the end, have a product that doesn't result in a recall like that.
So when I saw all that data, it really centered my focus and brought clarity to me that this is something that I wanna do for the rest of my life, 10 years, 20 years. I don't know. I guess I wouldn't say for the rest of my life. But I really was super inspired to do something about it cuz I also read that there were half a million deaths every year due to preventable medical errors in hospitals alone, just in the United States. So we basically have a whole pandemic happening every year in hospitals. And some of that is due to medication errors and hospital processes. But that figure doesn't even capture instances where they amputated the wrong leg. I mean, these are deaths. And so I'm, I'm really dedicating my career to reducing that number of half a million to something lower.
Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm so thankful for people like you that are doing that research and like you said, safety first, building it into the design from the very get-go. That's fantastic. Yeah.
Shannon Clark: And I love what Velentium's doing with regards to cybersecurity. I think that definitely follows the same kind of premise of protecting users and ensuring safety.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There is so much that goes into it. So any angles that we can take to help protect people is absolutely worth it. So, how would you define leadership or what does leadership mean to you?
Shannon Clark: I think leadership to me is inspiring others to be their best selves and fulfill their own missions, whatever it may be. So sometimes I can spark someone to be inspired to follow my footsteps and become a human factors engineer. Or maybe someone wants to pursue something a little bit different and just letting them uncover their own truths and pursue their dreams. That's probably the main thing I ask in interviews, " what is your dream job?" Because I wanna make sure that you're in your dream job, whatever that may be. So I guess that's what leadership means to me.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. And then what would be your best piece of advice for someone interested in obtaining a leadership role, either within the medtech industry, or very specifically following a similar career path to what you've done? What would you say to someone who that's a goal of theirs?
Shannon Clark: Well, my specific path, I believe, can in fact be replicated, in that, I saw an opportunity to uniquely become an expert in a field that was emergent. And there's many emerging fields that result from regulatory shifts. And in this case, UserWise, came out of the 2011 draft guidance about human factors issued by the Food and Drug Administration that was later published as final in 2016. And so there from my position at Abbott in 2010, 2011, I was able to see that coming down the pike and I saw the huge amount of opportunity at hand, and I saw where industry was and where it would be going. And out of that, I was able to found my consultancy. So I worked tirelessly to transform myself into an expert, not only by working 12 hour days at Abbott and giving them everything I had, but also reading all the textbooks on the syllabus for human factors master's degrees at various universities and had a stack of 20 books that I was working through. So it was all sort of self-taught, but ultimately I saw this opportunity due to a shifting regulatory landscape and things like that happen all the time in all industries. And there's all these opportunities that exist that are just a great opportunity to create a new business around it whether it's consulting or software as a service. Yeah, tons of opportunities out there.
Lindsey Dinneen: So sort of being open to maybe opportunities that you wouldn't have originally pinpointed for yourself, but being aware of various trends and kind of responding to the situation. Is that part of it?
Shannon Clark: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, I guess I'd describe my business model, if it were to be replicated, if you wanted to have success in this manner is to uncover regulatory trends and then find an opportunity, a business opportunity within that. But I guess more generally, if you're looking for a leadership position in the medtech field, I think that expertise certainly is highly valued. And engineering abilities is also highly valued. So, I think you need to go deep before you go broad. I think I do see a lot of like marketing experts, that maybe haven't gone scientifically deep, end up as CEOs of these companies, but I think the best background of all the CEOs that I work with, I always enjoy working with CEOs that have a technical background cuz they can truly understand the ins and outs. And I, I see limitations among some of these CEOs that maybe just have sales backgrounds.
Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense to me. I can understand that.
Shannon Clark: I think I'm talking to a salesperson right now, so I hope I haven't offended you.
Lindsey Dinneen: Not at all. I am more on the marketing engagement side of things, but I wouldn't be offended regardless, because you're right, you need both to be successful. So, absolutely.
Shannon Clark: Go deep first and then go broad. That's kind of the advice that was given to me as well and I followed that advice.
Lindsey Dinneen: I like it. I like that a lot. Yeah. Well, so I know from your bio that you are a published author three times. Right? I would love to hear about that and what have you written about and how did that all come about?
Shannon Clark: Well, nothing too impressive, and it's quite off topic, but I really enjoy history. So I authored a history of a local neighborhood, which is actually where UserWise is located in San Jose. And so I wrote this 150 page history book and we sold I think 3000 copies. And all the funding went to fund local farmer's markets as well as ultimately the annual 4th of July parade for San Jose. So I wrote that book and then wrote a follow on, a sequel about parades in the Bay Area, California. Have you ever heard of the Pasadena Tournament of Roses?
Lindsey Dinneen: I have.
Shannon Clark: So, we used to have one of those in Northern California. There's a whole Northern California, Southern California rivalry. That was huge when I went to UCLA. But we used to have our parade and our parade died out with the Great Depression, and we tried to resurrect it in 1960, but it didn't work out. So it was just kind of an interesting forgotten history that I wanted to capture in a book before it got lost forever.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That is awesome. Very cool.
Shannon Clark: And then the third book is how to get a job in management consulting. It's called "College2Consulting." It's a silly book, but I think it's pretty helpful if you wanna get a job at LEK or some management consultancy. I didn't come up with all the material for that, but I was the ghost writer.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, so cool. That's awesome. So what are some interesting industry trends that you are looking forward to as you continue on with UserWise and beyond?
Shannon Clark: I guess when I think of industry trends, I immediately think of what's happening with Europe, with MDR, and where's the FDA headed specifically with regards to human factors cuz that's ultimately what's gonna guide where UserWise is going next. With the FDA, there's been a lot of turnover with their human factors review team over the past five years, and it's created a shift towards requiring more and more. I think that's always the story with regulations where before maybe we didn't submit a full 60 page human factors engineering submission report for a lower risk device and just submit a protocol. These days they're just rejecting a protocol if there's no full backup for all the elements found in a human factors engineering submission report. So I think overall, I guess as always there's just more and more regulations. I do hope to make some progress. I'm headed to the International Standards Committee later this month in Germany, and I hope that I can kind of start socializing some ideas around reducing the burden from an international standards standpoint for human factors.
So, I guess another industry trend that's a little more specific is that we just finished our multi-year study on training decay, whereas in collaboration with the Food and Drug Administration. And to date for combination products, so drug delivery devices, you're basically required to conduct human factors testing with untrained users. And it's created a context where there's some drug delivery devices where if they were pure medical devices, they would easily get clearance. But since they're a combination product, they have a drug, they're reviewed by DMEPA, CDER, a different human factors team. They're just unapprovable because untrained users are not capable of using them successfully. So I'm hopeful that with our research, we can further promote the concept of trained usability testing and invite more devices to the table instead of requiring perfect use for combination products. That's a hope of mine. But again, with more and more regulations we'll see if that comes to fruition.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. Yeah, that sounds like a really good path forward. So it'll be interesting to see, like you said, how the landscape changes over time. So how do you prioritize your own continued learning and growing as a leader these days? I know you mentioned having stacks of textbooks, which I love, but nowadays, how do you continue to develop your own skills and knowledge?
Shannon Clark: Well, I think I mentioned earlier that I am thrilled to report to Kelly Kendall, CEO of our company. And so I learned from her every week by watching the way she runs the company, the way she makes decisions. I've just learned a ton. It's been drinking through a fire hose with regards to key performance indicators and everything to do with running a business in a more formal manner. Cuz I ran my business based purely on intuition and not really on data. And when you really get a grasp of all the data associated with a business, like she says, it's about turning knobs up and down and adjusting and fine tuning once you know what the knobs are. And so, I feel like myself professionally, I've grown so much just having a mentor continuously working with me. I have in the past had executive coaching, but that, that, pales in comparison to what I'm now able to experience having a seasoned and experienced CEO to report to.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and it's completely a hundred percent relevant to you and your business, which is awesome that you get that experience. Very cool. Okay, so just for fun, imagine that someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want, doesn't have to be in your industry. What would you choose to teach and why?
Shannon Clark: Well, I think the answer that I might be supposed to say is moderating. So I have a lot of experience moderating usability testing and minimizing bias for participants so that you can extract truth. So basically, as a moderator, you don't wanna get in the way of the truth of what a participant is experiencing or feeling or demonstrating through their interaction with a product. So we just launched a moderator course, which I'm really excited about. But I guess after having done all that work for the past months to launch that course, I need a break. So if I could teach a masterclass, I guess it would be on the history of the Maya, which right now I'm trying to learn Mayan hieroglyphs. And I have an interest in archeology. And to be honest, I know nothing about the Maya, but maybe I have a kind of a crazy overconfidence going on where I feel that I wanna learn everything about it. And I, I feel like I've done this in a couple of areas of my life where I'll learn everything about a subject and then kind of become like an expert. And so that's kinda my next side hobby. I have some ideas there about what I'm gonna do.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's awesome. So what sparked your interest specifically in that?
Shannon Clark: I think in part it's because I've been to Mexico a number of times. I speak Spanish. And then I have an aunt who's Mayan who was involved in kind of raising me at an early age. So, that definitely sparked my interest. And then I've been honestly, like watching a lot of TV about Ancient Apocalypse and all those shows. I don't know if you've seen them, but I was just like, oh yeah, this is so cool.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Yes. Isn't it great to have something outside of your main, day-to-day job life focus that just kind of brings you this other level of passion and joy-- I'll just put it, put it that way.
Shannon Clark: Yeah. This is certainly, it really stems out of being able to share the burden of running a company with others namely my boss Kelly, and it opens up my time to actually think about other things. And that has been a focus for me since the transaction in August. It's something I'm excited about just to have some extra hours in my week to think about things that aren't related to work.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's fantastic. So what is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Shannon Clark: I guess being a good mom and that's really all I care about. I have one daughter, her name is Emily, and she is 22 months old. And she's great. So that's definitely my focus to be a great mom. And it'd be cool to be remembered as a good contributor to the industry of human factors, but I think more importantly, I wanna be a good mom.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Aww. Oh my gosh. I love it. What is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Shannon Clark: Well, my daughter Emily, obviously, lemme try to come up with a different answer.
Lindsey Dinneen: Ok, it's a great answer though.
Shannon Clark: Yeah, that's gotta be my answer, sorry.
Lindsey Dinneen: No, that's fantastic. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your background, about your company, about the industry, where you think things are going, and your advice. I just really appreciate your time today, and I love hearing the why behind how you got into this and what makes you tick. So, thank you. And plus, it's really fun to hear about your hobbies outside of work too. And Emily, and course Emily. So, we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to the Equal Justice Initiative, which provides legal representation to prisoners who may have been wrongly convicted of crimes, poor prisoners without effective representation, and others who may have been denied a fair trial. So Shannon, thank you so much for picking that organization to support today. Thank you so much for your time. We wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Shannon Clark: Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Duane Mancini | CEO of Project Medtech | From Podcast to Consultancy to Hosting Events, Science, & Family

Duane Mancini is the CEO managing partner and founder of Project Medtech. In this episode, he shares how Project Medtech quickly evolved from one industry podcast to two, then to consulting for medtech startups, and now to hosting events. He also discusses his passion for the industry, his background as a scientist, and how his family, friends, and the startups he helps motivate him and always prompt him to smile. 
Guest links: https://www.projectmedtech.com/ | https://www.linkedin.com/in/duanemancini/
Charity supported: Save the Children
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 005 - Duane Mancini
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
 Hello and welcome to the Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am very excited to introduce you to my guest today, Duane Mancini. Duane is the CEO managing partner and founder of Project Medtech. He has extensive experience in go-to market strategy, including regulatory and reimbursement, biocompatibility, preclinical efficacy testing, and clinical trial design and execution. As a result of his unique background, he has developed a comprehensive understanding of what early stage startups need to do in order to be successful. And I am just so thrilled that you are here today. Thank you so much for joining us.
Duane Mancini: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me, Lindsey. This is super exciting. Congratulations on launching the podcast as well. I know the work that is required to do that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. And in fact, that is where I would love to just dive in because you have such a cool story about the way that Project Medtech has come about and I would just love to hear it, if you don't mind sharing it.
Duane Mancini: Yeah, for sure. So you know, my background as a chemist, I got my start at a company called NAMSA, and NAMSA is just a CRO in the medical device space, but phenomenal company when I was there that invested in their employees and so they allowed me to learn a lot of different aspects what a medtech company needs to do to bring a product to market, which was super nice. I had left there, though, in April of 2020 and went to a company called Covance, which was then acquired by LabCorp, and I think now just recently spun off again. But in between me leaving there, I wanted to continue to give back to startups and learn the way I learned, which was talking to people, experiences, that sort of thing. And I had found podcasts really interesting and there was no one really out there doing a podcast on what it took to run a medtech company. So I said, "well, I'm gonna do this." It'll keep me close to the startup scene where all the innovation is happening. I'm gonna do this podcast. So I worked with one of my buddies from high school to do the design of the Project Medtech logo. And I worked with another friend who was up in Chicago to do the jingle. And that's where I started, April 2020 right in the middle of everything shutting down cuz of the Covid pandemic. Yeah. So, launched the podcast and there was always this greater idea of what I really wanted to do, which was launch a organization around really specific vertical of medtech startups. And the podcast was just the first idea of it. And so yeah that's really where it started.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's a fantastic start. And I do want to hear the details too, because, relatively speaking-- although I'm sure there were times that did not feel like this to you-- but from an outsider's perspective, I look and go, wow, a lot has happened really quickly for your organization. So I would just love to hear more about how it's evolved.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. And I'm happy to share and I'm an oversharer, so I'm gonna share some of the personal details as well and hoping that it inspires other entrepreneurs and people with ideas and whatnot, cuz that's really important as well. So I start the podcast and like I said the pandemic kind of shuts everything down so people stop going to events. And so I stay really consistent on it. That was the whole idea. It was weekly podcast, no matter what, get it out. And so I started doing that. And about six months in, I had some people reach out and say, "Hey, how do I sponsor the podcast?" And I said, "interesting idea. I don't know."
So I took that back, reflected on it and said, "well, it makes sense, right?" We're getting way more listens than a webinar would get, and it's weekly, so it's amplified even more than that. And so I gave it some thought. I worked out an agreement with the first person to come in and sponsor. And then that's when I said, "Hey, you know what? I maybe need to think about the other ideas I had for the rest of the company." And so that's when I approached a co-founder named Aaron TenHuisen, who was a guy I knew from a doubles volleyball league I played in and just someone I had conversations with. So I approached him, told him the ideas, and he joined in November of 2020 to help with some of these ideas and I guess the concepts of what I wanted Project Medtech to be.
So I worked with him to work out some of those kinks, sell him on the idea, and really kinda what we settled on was, "Hey, let's keep going after this media piece of this podcast and continuing to grow this brand." And so in the same year my wife gave birth to our first daughter in December of 2020. And so, it was just crazy with personal life, working a full-time job and then trying to get this podcast that was gonna be the launching pad for our larger company off the ground.
Lindsey Dinneen: So then you're a new dad?
Duane Mancini: Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Lindsey Dinneen: And you've partnered up with Aaron and then and then what?
Duane Mancini: Yeah. So, so that continues to go really well. The podcast continues to expand. That is when I had reached out to another person in my network, Rich Mazzola. I knew his sister back in college. She was friends with my wife, and we had just been in the same area. He was doing fractional CFO support for medtech companies, oddly enough. And so I reached out to him and said, "Hey, this is our idea, we have our media company that we're gonna do this podcast and do some events within, then I have this idea for this consulting advisory group." But I have my background from NAMSA and LabCorp, but I'd love to get how CPA firms run their practices and law firms, right? Maybe there's some mix of how we need to be doing this. And so I of talked to him and sold him on the idea of, "Hey, why don't you come in and just be a co-founder here with us and help us conceptualize the idea?"
And so, he was the next co-founder to, to really come in and be a part of helping me conceptualize how we would eventually launch this consulting advisory service. So, I'll leave that one there, but he comes on in May of 2021. I gotta back up real quick, and this is part of that personal journey. So, in March of 2021, my wife comes off of maternity leave. She's a physical therapist and gets laid off. And so, besides what everyone's probably thinking of, "there's a lot that's probably illegal," was.
So all of 2021, I'm reaching out to Rich, and when I reach out to Rich, I'm having these personal discussions with my wife of, "okay, well, she just got laid off. Does she go back to work full-time? What does that look like?" And oh, by the way, Project Medtech going towards this path of I'm gonna have to make a decision to either step back from my LabCorp position and do this full-time, or Project Medtech stays at just a podcast. And so we're having those personal discussions as well of, "okay, we have the comfort of a nice job at LabCorp, but this is what I really want to do." So all of this is of going on for me personally as well, beyond just the Project Medtech evolution, which is super exciting, but also super scary. So there's this.
Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my gosh, yes.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. So, we progress further in that year, and by June, it's almost apparent that starting in 2022, I'm going to have to quit my job at LabCorp and go in to Project Medtech full-time if we really want to make a go at this, based on the positive momentum we're having. But also within June, I reach out to Giovanni Lauricella, who's part of Lifeblood Capital now, and approach him and say, "look, I'm getting a ton of people reaching out about raising and investing capital in medtech. You have this a presence on LinkedIn, as well, about raising and investing capital. Why don't you come do the podcast called Medtech Money for us at Project Medtech and host it. I don't have time to host another episode or another podcast series, but I do have time to produce it. So, would you be interested in that?"
And he's, "oh my gosh, a hundred percent, let's do it." And so, Giovanni comes on board and hosts the Medtech Money podcast series powered by Project Medtech and centers it around investing and raising capital specific to medtech. And so, it's been an absolutely wonderful partnership. He has Lifeblood Capital now, which is a recruiting firm and does this for us, and we both share in the benefit of putting out this podcast and giving back to the community. So that's where Giovanni comes in and is really an awesome partner.
Flash forward to the end of 2021, and in October we do this soft launch of, "Hey, I'm gonna go full-time. Can I fill out some consulting hours?" And it happens like within that month, and so, I put in my six week notice in the middle of November. And then from all of November and December, it was just like this scary moment of having a one-year-old and quitting my full-time, stable position at LabCorp to go full-time into Project Medtech. So yeah, that takes us to Project Medtech and then I can tell you about where we're at today and that kind of thing.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I was going to ask you a little bit more about the consulting side of the business. I would love to hear your take on that.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. Yep. So 2022, I go full-time in January. Aaron comes full-time in September. Rich comes full-time in August. We flash forward to where we're at today in 2023. We have 14 consultants on our team, a handful of which are full-time. The rest do part-time work with us. So what we did for our consulting group we had this theory that what startups really needed were fractional resources across finance, commercial, operations. And that's an overall business strategy and that's the areas we had originally thought in 2022. So we used 2022 to work with clients, continue to bring people in that were willing to give this three month old consulting firm a chance based on what we were telling them and the people we had on our team.
And from there we spent all of 2022 really looking at trends of how we supported companies, were there are different things we were doing, were there similar things we were doing that we can be more efficient on? And so, what we came out of that year with was, there is a huge need for this. And what's appealing about the group is it's all under one roof, right? So if you go to a CPA firm and say, "I need fractional CFO support," they're gonna tell you they should be their next hire, right? And you're gonna go on retainer with them, and you're gonna pay for that person when you don't need them. Same with a commercial person, same with an operations person.
And what our value is, is that it's a peel on, peel off service. If you don't need us, then you don't need us. If you don't need a person, then you sub another person in. And so our idea was we ride with that. We've built a consulting firm for medtech startup companies rather than a consulting firm that's built around generating as much profit as possible and tries to slam startups into how that consulting firm is run. And so we've done the opposite, which has been frustrating at times to try to scale. But in the long run it'll be super valuable and we think we'll have a unique value proposition for these medtech companies.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Okay. So what I love about what y'all do, and to what you're saying is, it's so highly focused on coming alongside these companies who, they're probably founded by people who are brilliant at what they do, but they might not have the experience of a business background just to supplement that, or, we can't all be all the things as much as we'd like to be. So it sounds to me like the way that you all are able to come alongside and partner with these companies to provide them the support they need at the time they need it, is a brilliant offering to the community.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. That's a big piece of it, right? Startups don't need more advisors. Like they don't need more people to be coaches or tell 'em where to go dig the trench or how to climb the mountain. They need that, but they also need people who are gonna get in there and execute the game plan with them, or go dig the trench, or go help them climb up Mount Everest. Right? Like they need those individuals too. And to our knowledge, there was no organization that did both of that. And so that's what we set out to be for these early stage startup companies.
And I think at first we thought we'd be a great fit for first time entrepreneurs and then we started to look back and go, well, we have a lot of first time entrepreneurs, but we also have a lot of entrepreneurs who are on their second, third, fourth company who are like, "Yes, I need you" because they know the power of the team. And so, what we end up becoming for these people is filling in the gaps. We become their extended team members. And, to take that one step further, what we've eventually found is that our core areas were finance, where we're supporting budgets, proformas, cap table dilution scenarios, but that was spilling into operations where we're doing supply chain logistics and bill of material support and helping to be that internal owner for the startup company as they talk to groups that are contract manufacturers or the suppliers or your quality systems management.
The CEOs of these companies don't have time to be managing that. So we were fractionalizing that role and that spilled over into product fit, product messaging, and go to market strategy, and commercialization, and how to sell to a hospital system, and actually where we can put a fractional sales leader in place for you until you can go out and hire that first time salesperson. And that's spilled into investment strategy where we've built a great investment network, but we understand how to build pitch decks, executive summaries, how to target what investors you wanna raise from and why you wanna raise from those individuals. How do you do that?
We help with warm introductions and then that kind of just spills over an overall business strategy because we have this end-to-end service where we can help you think about, okay, your regulatory consultant's telling you this but that's gonna affect reimbursement, which is going to affect your clinical strategy, which is gonna affect your commercial strategy. And so we are those early consultants who understand all those things, but then we'll go help you execute those things that you can't execute on your own. And our model is incredibly flexible, right? We meet the startup where they're at. And again, that makes it harder to scale, but that's okay because we're laying the groundwork for a company that just will know how to work with startups over time. It'll just take a little more time.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right, exactly. That's awesome.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. And then beyond that, we do events. And so our whole thing with our events group was, we don't want to go be another conference that's already out there. So how can we differ ourselves? So last year we did our Startup Symposium. We're going back to Houston in October of this year, October 25th and 26th, 2023. The whole idea from the Startup Symposium is we want to take companies from back of the napkin through exit with panel discussions on all the major topics that need to happen from ideating the idea all the way through exiting the company. And so that's exactly what we set out to do.
And then we sprinkle in pitches from startup companies all within that timeframe, plenty of networking sessions. And really the whole goal was, okay, let's connect this ecosystem. A lot of times startups get hung up on "well, I need to be in front of 10 investors." No, you don't. You need to be in front of 160 medtech nerds who are going to take what you need and connect you to the rest of the ecosystem. And that's true value.
And so that's what we set out to do and that's what we did last year with our first Startup Symposium in Houston where we had 160 people from Singapore to Australia to all over Europe, to coast America, all in Houston, Texas for a couple of days. And so, that's our one event. And then our second event we're gonna do this year, which is actually before that one is in August. That's a little more of a passion project for me. I'm an Ohio guy. I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, on the east side of the state, went to school on the west side of the state in Toledo for my bachelor's and masters, and then now live in Cleveland, and so love the Midwest.
And so we're going to do a Midwest showcase where the idea is to show off the innovation, connect the different startups, innovators, service providers, companies in the healthtech, medtech ecosystem from western PA, all the way to Iowa, up to Wisconsin and Minnesota, even South and North Dakota, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio. And just connect those regions where there's some really cool innovation going on. They don't happen to be in Boston or San Francisco where most people think of Medtech hubs. Yeah. That's more of a passion and just wanting to do our part in connecting the regions.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Well, as a Kansas City gal for 10 and a half years, I fully support this endeavor.
Duane Mancini: Yeah, exactly, right. Yeah. So you get it .
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I do. And it's exciting to see because there are really great companies and there is an ecosystem in the Midwest, but it doesn't have the same visibility always or maybe the same options, cuz trade shows tend to be on the coasts. Yeah. So this is exciting. Very cool. So if we were to rewind and let's say the start, either the end of 2019 or the start of 2020, could you have possibly imagined what this would have become by today?
Duane Mancini: Oh, no, not a chance. I tell all the co-founders and the advisors, that I couldn't imagine being here right now, where we have an office space in downtown Cleveland that we work out of. And it's pretty surreal just because it started as a podcast and I, I think I originally said it was like, "Hey, five year plan, I'm gonna go full-time into this." And then it was, "well, maybe it's three years." And then it was, "well, we'll launch a consulting practice and I'll go full-time, but you guys come full-time in a couple years. Let me build this more." And then nine months later, they're both full-time. And so it's, yeah every step of the way we've far outpaced where we thought we'd be. And every time there's another milestone, I always think it's further off than it is.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's pretty cool. And I love to hear that kind of success story. It's nice to hear that, because everyone's story is so unique, but it doesn't always have to be the slow burn. Sometimes it can just be a rocket ship, I guess?
Duane Mancini: Yeah. And well, and like to your point too, like, the slow burn, we always looked at as, we were as risk adverse as possible, right? Like no risks, or at least not as big of risks, each step of the way, right? And we've bootstrapped this, so we're different. We didn't raise any money. And so that's made it a little more challenging as well. But we've also felt like each step of the way, it was as de-risked as it could possibly get before it's " okay, well you either gotta do it or don't do it." And so it's been a wild ride.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I can only imagine. Yes. Well, so I am curious, is there a moment or maybe a series of moments that stands out to you? It could be with what you're doing now, but it could be in the past. I'm just curious, is there anything that particularly stands out to you as confirming that yes, this is the right industry for me?
Duane Mancini: That's a good question. Yeah, I would say back to the early NAMSA days. My background is theoretically set up for more of a pharmaceutical background, but when I got into NAMSA and then worked with with so many different companies, so you got to see so many cool products. There was one that stood out in 2015, and we had done the biocompatibility for a company that was working on a disease where kids are born and their esophagus doesn't connect to their stomach. And so there was a lot of surgical procedures done, but this company had developed magnets that you essentially do one procedure where you inserted in the stomach, inserted in the throat, and then eventually the esophagus and stomach would fuse together. And we did the biocompatibility for that, which is like a small piece of medtech innovation.
But I remember getting that story where they did it at their first clinical trial and the baby had two procedures and went home in seven weeks, which was like unheard of for this type of condition. And some of those details could be butchered a little bit. So no one hold me to it, but that was the general concept of it. And I just remember feeling like a sense of, "that's pretty cool how that paid off and I had a part to play in that." And from there on out, it was just like an absolute addiction to the industry of, "wow, we can make a lot of big differences in people's lives here."
And, part of it was like, saying it tongue in cheek, but I used to be like, "what better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives, affect people's lives in a positive way." And, it's part tongue in cheek, but it's also serious. Like we all play a really big role in affecting people's lives in a really positive way that we don't get to see all that often cuz most of us aren't on the frontline of treating patients like the clinicians are, but we're giving them the tools to do that. And so, that was the earliest time I can remember where I said, "oh I'm gonna be in this for the long haul."
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my gosh. What a powerful story. Thank you for sharing that. I can see how that would easily cause a healthy addiction to the industry.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. I should say healthy addiction. Right? And cuz there's other things that are probably not so healthy, but that's one of them.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, throughout your career and of course now being the primary founder or the first founder of your company, you've had opportunities to demonstrate leadership and be a leader within the industry. How would you define leadership? Or what does it mean to you?
Duane Mancini: Yeah. This is something too that I spent a lot of time, especially like stepping into the role of, I founded the company, but then it was discussed that I was gonna be the CEO and take this primary leadership role. And I think that it was something that I took really serious about, okay, well how do I want to be a leader and part of it was, okay, I want to be hands off-ish. I want people to feel like they have their creative freedom to, to take an idea and run with it. And I've tried to instill that from the very beginning of, "Hey, here's my ideas. What are your thoughts on this? Take it back. Take your time. Add to it."
It's a free space to put your idea out there and let people do what they're good at. I think sometimes people fall victim to, "well, I'm the leader, I have all the answers." And you don't. You have to know where you're weak and put stronger people around you to fill those types of gaps you have. So I've made a pretty big effort to try to do that. And I think if you met Aaron and Rich you'd totally understand. We all excel at different things and Project Medtech doesn't happen without all of us. And so, I think, being humble in that sense is pretty important, which I see a lot of people struggle with, where they think they have to have all the answers, they want to do it by themselves, and that's not fun. Doing it as a team, that's fun!
 Yeah, so that was the early thoughts around leadership and then, a lot of it was, just little things here and there that you pick up on, you read about. I, I did a lot of reading around psychology and how people make decision and what motivates humans. And I did a lot of reading from folks who did a lot around decision making and thinking and they did a lot around behavioral economics. And so, I spent a lot of time reading those books and thinking about those. And, it's funny how little things stick, but there's a video that floats around one of the social media platforms, one of the short videos that talks about how the Navy Seals make decisions on who they want on their team.
So this guy draws a graph on the whiteboard and says, on one of the lines, it's "performance." On the other lines, it's "trust." And it says, obviously you want high performance, high trust. Right? That's an ideal person for your team. But then he says, "you would think that performance would be more important." But one of the most organized organizations in the world, the Navy Seals, actually would rather take high trust, medium performance, and even potentially high trust, low performance over a high performer with low trust.
And that was something that, I watched and like anything, I'm a scientist. Every time I see something like that, I question it. And then I thought about it more and I'm like, "wow, that's actually makes a ton of sense." And so that was something that we talked about from the very early days of even adding 1099's of, they could be a high performer, low trust. We just have to identify that really quickly. But we'd rather take those high trust, medium performers cuz they're gonna make great consultants as well because the clients are gonna like them. And so we thought about those types of things really early on too. And that was a video that I just always go back to.
The only difficulty with that is there's metrics out there to measure performance. There is not a ton of metrics out there to measure trust. And so that's been the issue of like right now, trust measurements is kind of on gut, and that's not the best formula. But anyways, that I wanted to share that because we have a whiteboard here I'm looking at in our office and we draw that graph on that whiteboard more than anything else to talk about people we're thinking about adding to the team and whatnot.
Lindsey Dinneen: Amazing. Yeah. And so, if somebody were to be interested in obtaining a leadership role within the industry, potentially even follow a path somewhat similar to yours in terms of founding a company or something like that, what would be your advice for that person?
Duane Mancini: Yeah, so I, I'll give you the advice that-- so Tim Blair is one of our advisors here. He's a consultant for us, but he is also someone that is an advisor for me as well and the company at Project Medtech. His dad, Jeff Blair, was the CEO of NAMSA at one point in time. And Jeff was a guy I talked to while I was at NAMSA and I talked to him a little bit and I got sit down with him for just a 30 minute discussion and I said, "Hey," I said "this is what I wanna do with my career." And he said, "you better go learn how to sell." Cuz I was a technical person who was stepping into technical sales and he said, you have to go learn how to do true sales and business development if you want to be a leader at a company," which is what I really wanted to do.
And so that is my piece of advice for folks who are in the space, that are maybe in a technical role who want to get into leadership. They may have a low opinion of sales because I know I did before I was in it, right? I was that scientist who was like, "what do we need salespeople for?" And then, I get into sales, marketing, business development, and I was like, "oh my gosh, I was such an idiot. I was so wrong." That was advice that I look back and go, "yep, a hundred percent, totally get it." You have to go do that. Because if you don't have those skills or haven't done that, running a company is gonna be really hard because when you're running a company, you're selling internally and externally all the time, and so you better learn how to do that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Great advice. I can definitely understand, and it is funny, I have talked to people who are quite skeptical of sales and marketing sometimes, and coming from a different background and I try to gently remind them, "well, the thing is if people don't know your product exists, they can't buy it."
Duane Mancini: Yeah, right. A hundred percent. I mean, like even take an example, not related to medtech, but if you look at the Apple iPhone versus like an Android, right? I think most people who are really tech savvy or are engineers who really understand it will be like, "oh gosh, the Android is so much better than the iPhone from a performance standpoint." But the iPhone owns the majority of the market. And it wasn't because someone built a better product. It's because their sales and marketing and their brand development was that much better. And they own the market for that. I brought this up one time and someone brought up the example of, I think it was like an 8 track or cassette or something like this, from like in the past with music. And it was another example of like someone had a superior product, but the branding and marketing of another product that maybe wasn't superior, crushed them. They eliminated them out of the market. And so, that is always the truth is that you have to have those sales and marketing people and you have to be good at what you do there.
Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Yep. Unrelated a little bit, taking a turn, imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want, doesn't have to be in your industry, but it could be. What would you choose to teach and why?
Duane Mancini: Good question. I think I'd probably honestly stay in medtech, stay in the masterclass of everything you need to do to make this medtech company successful. I think I have to stay there. I don't think I know enough about anything else to teach. I think that's my issue there. I'd love to say what worked for me for staying motivated or a lot of the mental things I've read about or like having a really, worry free kind of mindset. But that's just what's worked for me, and there's other experts and it's just been like I've pulled that from so many other people. I'd probably have to stay in Medtech, I think that's where I have to sit.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, hey, and you live it, so that's a great one to do a masterclass on.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Duane Mancini: Well, one, I hope that my daughters remember me as a great father, first and foremost. So, we have our second daughter on the way. I will tell you that being a father and even maybe more specifically, like to my two daughters, has just absolutely changed me as an individual: way more sensitive, closer to my emotions being just a dad in general. So hopefully, that's first and foremost, is that they look back and go, "yeah, boy, dad was awesome." That'd be my first thing.
And then after that, Project Medtech has consultants. We're not gonna be remembered for bringing a specific product to market, right? That's gonna be that founder. But just the fact that they made a difference in, in helping innovators bring really good ideas to market. And that's what I want to be remembered for personally is that I helped play a role in allowing people that have really good ideas to see their idea through to as far as they want.
What kills me sometimes is when an innovator has a really good idea and they don't get to see it as far as they wanna see it, right? When they're forcefully said, "Hey, some other CEO needs to take this role, or someone else needs to take the leadership reins" and they wanna do that. I don't want that ever to be the case. I want it to be that they've made that decision cuz they had the resources to do what they wanted to do. And so I just wanna play my role in, in bringing innovative products to market to improve patients' lives. That's the mission of Project Medtech. So, I guess in a way, if you're gonna be the founder and CEO of a company, that mission better be something you personally live by. And that's a hundred percent what I wanna be remembered for.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it's really cool that you get to live that out now, you get to see impact that you're making in various peoples' and various companies' lives because of the role that you do get to play. So that's pretty cool.
Duane Mancini: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, this will be the final question, but I am curious to know how it's gonna tie in. So, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Duane Mancini: I'll stay on the same track. It's family for me. Family and friends, which I bucket together because anybody who knows me will tell you that like my group of people that maybe aren't blood related, are still family for me. And so that goes all the way down from my wife, to my kids, to my parents, to my in-laws, to all of my friends. That is the one thing that just consistently brings joy to me.
And then in the most cheesy entrepreneur way, it's Project Medtech and the development of Project Medtech, and more so the companies we are supporting and when they have success. I'd love to see the success of Project Medtech, but even more so when a company hits a milestone or raises funding, gets to market, sells into a hospital, benefits a patient-- that's honestly for me, even a bigger moment to smile than the success of just Project Medtech because that's why we're here is to support those companies. And so, that's more than one, but those are those three things that consistently bring me happiness and make me smile.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Great answer. Thank you so much again, so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your stories, your insight, your advice. It's really cool to see Project Medtech's story, and I just thank you again for sharing it with all of us because it's very inspiring and it's so cool what y'all are doing, so I really appreciate it.
Duane Mancini: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for starting your podcast series as well. It's funny, one last comment is, I talk to so many people who think starting another podcast would be competitive. And it's not, right? There's how many billion people in this world? There's a lot of ears for us to reach out to. And so, I always think it's so cool when people are starting podcasts in the industry and especially on more of the human side of things like this, Lindsey. I thought you did a fantastic job on the interview and just making me feel comfortable, which I know is not easy to do as the sitting on the other side of the table. And I think the more of these things that exist where people can actually get to know folks in the medtech space like this is really exciting. It makes the industry a little bit closer. So kudos to you for taking the plunge and starting this podcast. It's a heavy lift.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that and I value that feedback too. Well, we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you very much for choosing that organization to support. And of course, I just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world.
Duane Mancini: Thank you.
Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
 The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium.
Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications.
Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems.
Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies.
Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

Marissa Fayer | CEO of HERhealthEQ | Women’s Healthcare Accessibility, Aerospace Engineering, & Philanthropy

Marissa Fayer is a 20-plus-year medtech executive, innovator, entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist. In this episode, Marissa discusses her deep passion for furthering women's healthcare, the trip to Costa Rica that changed the course of her career trajectory, and the fact that before she was recruited into healthcare, she was on track to become an aerospace engineer. 
Guest links: http://www.marissafayer.com/ | https://www.herhealtheq.org/  | https://www.ggventures.co.uk/
Charity supported: Feeding America
Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com. 
PRODUCTION CREDITSHost: Lindsey DinneenEditor: Tim OliphantProducer: Velentium
 
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Episode 004 - Marissa Fayer
Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world.
Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them.
Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives.
Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives.
Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives.
Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference.
Hello and welcome to the Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Marissa Fayer. Marissa is a 20 plus MedTech executive, innovator, entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist. She is the CEO and founder of nonprofit, HERhealthEQ, the CEO of DeepLook Medical, VP of Operations at Ultrasound AI, and the US Partner at Goddess Gaia Ventures. Her mission is to move innovation and the health of women forward throughout the world. Okay, obviously an amazing person. Marissa, thank you so much for joining us today.
Marissa Fayer: My pleasure, thanks so much for having me.
Lindsey Dinneen: I literally read your bio and thought, "Oh my goodness. Do you sleep?"
Marissa Fayer: Unfortunately, not very much, but it's not as a result of work probably. My brain never shuts down. There's a lot to do in women's health, so gotta keep going.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I would love to learn a little bit about your background, how you first got intrigued in this field. Just tell me a little bit of your backstory, if you don't mind.
Marissa Fayer: Yeah, for sure. I wish I can say that it was interesting, but unfortunately it's not. I didn't really have any intentions in going into healthcare. I was luckily recruited into it straight out of university. I originally wanted to go into aerospace, but when I was graduating from BU, from the engineering school, it was a downturn in aerospace, and thankfully a healthcare company offered me an amazing position. So, I went straight into healthcare and as the saying goes, "once you go into healthcare, you never leave."
Thank God, because I realized it was my mission, my passion. And then thankfully I also joined the largest women's health company in the world and really realized that was my mission and my passion. So it was all meant to be, but my career was 15 years in corporate, working for large medical device companies, developing new products, working in operations and manufacturing, and handling a lot of mergers and acquisitions. And after 15 years, just decided to make a change and I think it was probably as a result of some burnout. And for the last nine years, I've been consulting and built a very successful consulting practice helping small to mid-size companies scale and grow and figure out their operations and their manufacturing, but especially their business strategy and what is interesting to them. And I've been very strategically focusing on companies that are affecting women and women's health.
And I've been in the women's health space really before people honestly knew what it was. And so, it was always my passion. I was always really interested in women in STEM and as a woman in STEM, that was super interesting to me. But I also realized after living abroad in Latin America that having schools wasn't the issue. It was ensuring that girls going to school was the issue, and girls weren't going to school because their mothers and their grandmothers and their aunts were not healthy. And that was a problem as an engineer that I could fix. And so, it's been quite the journey. And MedTech and healthcare-- I'm biased, I feel like it's the best industry to be in. You're doing something great, you're giving back to society. And it's also, let's be clear, lucrative, this is not a nonprofit industry. This is a lucrative industry. Lots of innovation happening, lots of exciting news happening. And so I think it's the best place to be, but you know, obviously I'm biased because it's been 23 years.
Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Well, I think you've earned the bias, right? So you mentioned, having had a passion for women's healthcare for a very long time, and thank goodness for you because we need way more of that. Thank you for being that advocate and being on the forefront of that. I am curious-- you mentioned a couple different things playing into that passion when you were growing up. Was that something that you were aware of maybe even before college as being a need or an interest of yours?
Marissa Fayer: Yeah. I grew up in a fabulous house and a fabulous family and we were always supported in whatever we wanted to do. I went to space camp twice, like I was training to become an astronaut and an aerospace engineer. There was no limit to a girl in our family. There was no limit to anybody. And we were in a position to be lucky, and I'm very cognizant of that to be fortunate, to be able to have those opportunities. But I went to space camp twice as a kid. I studied math and science. That was my pathway even in elementary school and middle school and high school. That was my pathway. I went to engineering school. That was not incredibly common 25 years ago especially from a girl from New York. And so again I'm incredibly lucky and I know that most people don't have all of this opportunity. But I did not grow up in a society or in a family that said you can't do that. So I didn't grow up with those misconceptions. And so when I go somewhere and they're like, well, this girl can't go to school. To me, that's not acceptable because that was never acceptable to me. I mean, what kid literally goes to college still thinking they're gonna be potentially an astronaut. I mean, there's very few. I literally enrolled in aerospace engineering. And graduated with a different engineering degree, But that was the path I was pursuing. And, and it was supported the entire time and, and trust me, I've put my deposits down. I'm hopefully still going, but, but in a different capacity.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. That's amazing. What a story! Do you think that your interest in aerospace engineering and your, education in that field-- has that played a particular role? Has it carried over in any way to the medtech side of things?
Marissa Fayer: Listen, going down a semi nontraditional pathway, so as an engineer you're always curious, I always had that curiosity mind. So, whether you're an engineer or an astronaut or any of those, I was very curious about how things worked or how to make it better and how to make it efficient and things like that. So, that plays into all of it. There was also a societal element. I like to explore. Part of exploration is making things better and bringing things back to make things better here. So my intent with healthcare is to make things better. I think that's most everybody's intent with healthcare, at least the good people. So certainly I think it does play over. I was curious, I wanted to explore and I wanted to make things better. And so I think that played a significant role in staying in healthcare as well. And listen, I always wanted to do something for society. I thought it was gonna be through space exploration. And it turned into, it's actually through improving women's lives and health throughout the world.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And I love that you highlight that because that, I think that's a really important thing that doesn't get talked about enough-- that it is okay to pivot and to change what you originally expected to do. Because sometimes those non-traditional pathways do, like you said, give you a different perspective and different insight than maybe somebody who has always been on that path. So, yeah, there's a lot of value to that.
Marissa Fayer: We're not in a society anymore, that you have to do the same thing for 50 years. And there's so much interconnectivity and there is so much learning that happens cross industry that is so helpful and applicable to help each other industry. So let's just take, cuz we're talking about health and health tech. The tech industry, in so many ways is ahead of the health industry. But to apply some of the tech learnings into the health industry to help accelerate health tech, that's important. So that's just like one singular example of how industries can cross over and how it's gonna benefit us in multiple ways.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Absolutely. Is there a particular moment that stands out to you because it clearly confirmed that this was the right career for you or any sort of defining catalyst moment where you thought, "Yes, this is it?"
Marissa Fayer: that's a great question. When I think back to it, I think it was when I formed HERhealthEQ and realized that I could help women and women's lives very specifically using the knowledge that I gained through industry and applying it on a global perspective. And the fact that it doesn't even matter how much we scale. And while I have a grand ambition by the end of 2025 for us as an organization to impact the lives of a million women-- and we are on track to do that-- but that almost doesn't matter because it matters to the one person, the one woman that we have impacted and improved her life because it matters to her family, it matters to her. And I sometimes have to think about it.
So when I started the organization, I didn't have those lofty goals. I just wanted to do something good and wanted to help because I saw that there was a gap, and repurposing medical equipment that is completely usable and getting it to regions and doctors and clinics that need it. That is important and that saves lives. And so for me, every time we hear a story or every time, we get our impact numbers back or anytime I think about that one woman being able to go home because potentially a cancer was caught really early as opposed to it being caught at stage four where it's non-treatable, she's able to walk back into her house and do whatever she wants to do because it was caught early and it was able to be treated. Every time it happens, that's when I realize, that is probably the moment. And I guess they just keep on coming, but the first time that hit me --that was, that was the moment.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that. And in your role now, I know it is one of leadership, and I am curious how you would personally define leadership or what does leadership mean to you?
Marissa Fayer: I'm more of a "lead by example," and a "walk the walk," "do the do" kind of, leader. I, I trust people who I work with. And I don't think that any leader should work with people they don't trust. And listen, there's always instances where things have to be worked on. And I'm not naive, certainly, and I have plenty of my own instances that have to be worked through, but it's more-- you have to work with people and assume that they're going to do the job, and you have to assume that they want to, and they have to be incentivized to be doing that. So, I lead by example. I work hard. I meet my commitments. I do what I say and people see that. If I wasn't meeting any of my deadlines or I wasn't doing what I was saying, then everyone would understand that's acceptable. And I also have to hold people accountable to their actions as well.
So from my perspective, it's very much a lead by example mentality. And that's far more effective than the" iron rule", the very micromanage, tell me exactly every minute what you're doing. And listen, people have different ways of working as well and different needs and styles of working. And I was always one of those. And so I'm very cognizant that people have different work speeds. Listen, there has to be deadlines that are set and deadlines that are achieved and things like that. But you also have to let people work when it is the best time to get their genius. Not everybody's a morning person. Some people are evening people, some people work better on a weekend. You have to be flexible enough within the timeframe that you have to be able to work within each person's level of genius and zone of genius. Because it differs for everybody and, and also people have life. And life happens. And I think being a human is really helpful. And it's so basic, honestly, but like really just being a normal, nice human is really genuinely helpful. And I think people just need to remember that.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, great advice. And speaking of advice, what is your best piece of advice for someone interested in obtaining a leadership role within the medtech industry? And I'm specifically interested because of your focus on women and women's healthcare. What about a woman who is particularly interested but might feel daunted by that?
Marissa Fayer: Yeah, ask for it. Actually, demand it, but ask for it. Because if you don't ask, you're never gonna get it. So ask. People aren't gonna know that you want it, it's not ESP. They're not gonna read your mind. Ask them, talk to them about it. Tell people that you want a leadership position. Go after it! There is this silly misconception like, "Oh, you're gonna be seen as bossy." No. Good, good. You should be. Go after what you want. And if you are working in an organization where that is not encouraged, that's not the right organization for you. There are plenty of organizations out there that encourage that. I'm not saying do it rudely. I'm saying work with people. And it doesn't necessarily have to be your direct manager, either. Work with people in your organization and tell them what you want. You can ask their opinions, but you can also tell them what you want. You want a management's position? Ask their advice on how to get there and then follow their advice on how to get there. Because then you can go back to them and say, "Thank you for your advice. I have followed it. Now it's time for me to become this position." And there is irrefutable evidence for you to get that position.
So, just do it. Ask for it, demand it, but do the work. I come from a generation where you still have to do the work. It is not automatically given to you because you've been somewhere for two years. Do the work and earn it because, first of all you'll feel better about yourself and second of all, you'll learn more, and you'll go further in the long run, and that's more important. It's not this next tiny milestone, it's the future. So if you have done the work and you've learned, you've set yourself up for the future, but really just ask for it and ask and communicate what you're looking for because nobody is naturally-- or very few people are naturally-- just going to give something to you without you asking.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love that advice. I was smiling and nodding my head the whole time because I hundred percent agree with you. And also it is one of those things where if you don't ask, the answer is always "no". Very few times, are you just gonna be handed something, so. Brilliant. Love it. And how do you prioritize your own continued learning and growing as a leader?
Marissa Fayer: Yeah, it's a lot of listening, you know, a lot of book reading. Thank God for podcasts. I'm a podcast on the go listener, so that's great. I, I listen to a lot of people in a lot of different industries as well, cuz I think that's really important because you can learn from other industries and learn from other different styles. So generally it's listening to feedback from others. I don't necessarily take everybody's advice because advice is a dime a dozen. You have to figure out what to do with it. But I listen, hear what people are saying. I listen to also direct feedback. I listen for trends in the market and understanding what's up and coming as well, and and trying to prioritize those and hopefully trying to be ahead of the curve a little bit. But I think the key to learning regardless of what stage you're in again is just about, listening and absorbing.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned back at the beginning when you were telling us a little bit about your background of spending some time in Latin America and how that helped influence the way that you would eventually start your own business, and your perspective on women's healthcare and whatnot. I'm curious if you would be willing to elaborate a little bit more on that time that you had there and its impact on what you do now.
Marissa Fayer: I mean, besides the fun, the hiking, and the surfing and friends and, all that stuff, I worked very hard. I went to a country where I didn't speak the language and I had to learn it after work. It was a great learning experience. And that's the other part of like continuous learning. Like you always have to do something different. For me, Costa Rica fully shifted who I was. And it created my future. I went there with a large multinational. I was integrating an acquisition. I was integrating other acquisitions into that, company and I was talking to a friend and women were dying of breast cancer at alarming rates because the one mammography machine in that region broke down. And of course I thought that was ridiculous because I just, right before moving to Costa Rica, deployed the 3D mammography systems, and I knew the 2D systems were always coming back and they were lined up against the warehouse wall, and they were just sitting there. And so I knew that there was no reason for women to be dying because they didn't have a mammography machine. I literally had them lined up against a warehouse. Like why wouldn't we just ship one down, you know, as a donation.
So, going through that entire process and creating an entire program to give back to the countries which medical device companies are working in and other industries are working in, it shifted my mindset on how for-profits and nonprofits can work together. And it was the origin story for the beginning of HERhealthEQ. And I didn't start it originally at that time I waited until I left corporate. For years I had to formulate my thought around it. I had to build a successful consulting firm first and all of these things. But that time formed who I am right now. Between teaching you how to work and live in another country and figuring everything out yourself. And also more or less finding your life and your passion all in the same three year timeframe is pretty spectacular. So 10 years later the mammography machine is still working, it's still screening women in Costa Rica. And now that same company, Hologic, has supported a HERhealthEQ program for the screening of cervical cancer in Costa Rica. So it's come full circle 10 years later, which is incredible. That's kind of unheard of. And it's so special and spectacular. So, to say the least, Costa Rica certainly changed my life.
Lindsey Dinneen: That's an amazing story.
Marissa Fayer: You just never know. And that's the point. I didn't go to Costa Rica thinking "I wanna life change and I gotta change everything here." I went to work. I had never thought about leaving corporate. I never thought about starting a nonprofit. I never thought about becoming a consultant. I never thought about these things. These were not in my life plans. And so I think you just generally have to be open to understand and receive what the universe is like literally putting in front of your face. If the aerospace industry was not tanking in 1999, in 2000, I could be at NASA right now. I mean, who knows? But I think that being in Costa Rica, lining up those circumstances, everything that I learned put me in that position to open my eyes, to see that as an engineer in a healthcare company, in a medtech company focused on women's health. That's why it changed my life. Because I saw an opportunity, I saw it, and I acted.
Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I really appreciate that perspective of being open to things that you really probably would never have expected. Like you said, you didn't go there thinking, "Oh, this will be the impetus for me to have this amazing organization one day." That wasn't the plan, but what you did do is you went with this willingness to explore, and that led you to an incredible opportunity to really help people. So I really like that piece of advice as well.
So imagine someone were to offer you a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It does not necessarily have to be in your industry. What would you choose to teach and why?
Marissa Fayer: First of all, let's just be clear, I would put the million dollars back into charity and I wouldn't be pocketing that. I think I would love to teach. I would love to be paid a million dollars for it. But I would also like to channel that money actually to do the work, less to hear myself speak. So, putting that big caveat out there. But what I would love to teach would be how can nonprofits and for-profits partner or better partner together to, to better the world? So how can they work together to better life, better the world? And, and obviously very specifically for me, women's health. But just generally the world. Nonprofits seem to be working in this one vertical, for-profits work in this other vertical. There is now a lot of thankfully overlap. There's just not enough. And for-profits have the power to catalyze change. Nonprofits with for-profits are the way oftentimes to do that, and social enterprise-- I'm considering both of those in the mix-- but to really have them work together to change the world and better the world. That is how to mix profit and purpose. That's what I would love to teach on and also take that class.
So, any recommendations on if that class exists? I would love to be learning about that a lot more. . Cause we do it. But it's still a continuous learning journey and I think that it's something that everybody still needs to get better at. There's not any one organization, not even the largest in the world, and not even the largest nonprofits and largest corporations that are good at this. Nobody has it down, and I don't think it should be a formula. I just think it needs to be better communicated. So I would love to teach a class on that once I figure it out. That's the next edition of our podcast, I guess?
Lindsey Dinneen: Right? Okay. So brilliant. So we'll have you back on, once you have this masterclass that you can teach us, that'd be amazing.
Marissa Fayer: Yes. I might be 90, so we'll see. Let's hope not.
Lindsey Dinneen: Well, amazing. And to that point, is there a good way that for-profit organizations can partner with you and what you are doing to create some change and to help each other? Is that something that you are currently actively seeking help with? And how could an interested company do that?
Marissa Fayer: We are a thousand percent actively searching and looking to work with any type of corporation, doesn't necessarily even have to be in the medtech or the healthcare space. I mean, obviously there is a linkage there. Let's just be clear. But, we're looking for like-minded organizations to partner with them, to support our work, but also to increase their CSR, their corporate social responsibility and their ESG and their DEI and all of those things that are important as a corporation and their employee engagement, et cetera, to promote that out in the world, because it is a corporate imperative for them to do that. We wanna be part of that corporate imperative. And so anyone can go to HERhealthEQ.org or email us at info@HERhealthEQ.org or find me at marissafayer.com. But it is the way to move things forward.
So we are actively doing it right now, and we're seeing incredible results. We're screening 50,000 women in Costa Rica right now with a corporate partner. And that's per year. And that's as a result of three corporate partnerships. So it is the power to drastically improve lives with not a lot of money. So, yes, we're actively seeking them related to supporting women, supporting healthcare on a global scale. And, we look to partner with any type of organization. It could be the CSR department. It could be through a grant, it could be through a donation, it could be through an employee retention program. There's so many ways. It could be through even a marketing program that has been created jointly because, listen-- when we are able to do the work, those metrics and impact shared back to the companies and they're able to report and use them for their goodwill as well. And we want that, we want them to be proud of the work that they've sponsored and partnered with us for. That just amplifies us. It amplifies them and it amplifies the focus on improving women's health, which is the end goal for everything that I do and that we do. And that's how everybody can partner with us. Thank you for asking. So, yes, would love to partner with corporations however, large or small, there is no size limit. That's the other thing. Like small corporations are also incredibly applicable.
Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Thank you for providing all of those resources too so we can get in touch with you. All right, so what is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world?
Marissa Fayer: That women deserve access to quality healthcare regardless of where she lives. That's it. Period. End of sentence. It is a requirement. Healthcare should be equal in access and equitable for everybody and that is currently not even close to being the state of where we are right now. And so, I'd love to be remembered after I leave this world for improving the situation and ensuring that women have better health and better access to healthcare.
Lindsey Dinneen: And then final question, what's one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it?
Marissa Fayer: On a personal level, obviously my niece and my nephew. Because that's, thank God, unconditional love, but I also think it's like the little things: a sunny, warm day in New York City in the middle of winter. I think given the crazy lives that we all have, I think taking tiny moments of joy are just so important, and I don't necessarily remember that every minute of every day, but I think it's worth taking just a moment every day to create joy or to appreciate joy. So I don't know what it is, it varies day by day. Some days it's a chai latte. Some days if I'm traveling in Europe, it could be a delicious croissant. Or it could just be a delightful walk. It could be anything. I guess whatever you're in the mood for to make you joyful that day.
Lindsey Dinneen: I love it.
Marissa Fayer: Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's very random, so I don't have a good, clear answer for you. So who knows?
Lindsey Dinneen: You know what, something joyful is a beautiful answer because you're right, it can vary from day to day, and all those little things add up to make you smile. That's wonderful. Well, thank you so very much for joining us, for all of your amazing advice and insights. Really enjoyed getting to know you a little bit, getting to know your organization and of course, your passion behind it and why it is so important. So I really appreciate that, and we are honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Feeding America, which works to end hunger in the United States by partnering with food banks, food pantries, and local food programs to bring food to people facing hunger, and it also advocates for policies that create long-term solutions to hunger. So Marissa, thank you again, so very much. We wish you just continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. Thank you for being here.
Marissa Fayer: Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure.
Lindsey Dinneen: Great, and thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you are feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love it if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.
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